Tour Guide Mike Query

[mattr555]

I subscribed for TGM about 2 weeks ago and everything was fine for the first couple of days. Then i found I could no longer log in and a message displayed saying my account had expired. I emailed the suggested info email address to query this but have so far received no response. I then noticed today on my online banking that half of the registration fee has been refunded to me.

Since I have received no response from TGM and am unable to query this on the TGM forums, does any other TGM member have any idea what has gone wrong here?

 

[Alice Sr.]

I'm sorry I don't have any idea but I have seen one of their moderators post here sometimes her name is Grammabarb. Do a seach of posts by her and send her a PM. I'm not sure how often she visits the Dis but maybe you can get some answers that way. Good luck.

 

[kutchyone]

I posted your message in the TGM forum and if/when I get a reply I will let you know. I'm sure Mike will get back to you as soon as he can. He may be touring in one of the parks but he usually is very prompt with his replies.

 

[DisneyLisa]

I believe your membership may have been refunded because of this thread which was in violation of the TGM User Agreement.

 

[kutchyone]

DisneyLisa could be absolutely right.

 

[Nik's Mom]

Yes, that is probably why it was cancelled.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

LOL, some day someone is going to copy that site and post it somewhere. You can't copyright the order to visit attractions in, LOL - much less attractions you don't own the rights to in the first place. He may be able to cancel accounts, but legally - yes, his words themselves are copyrighted just like any one commits to paper/computer, but the advice isn't. You can't copyright facts. And once you take out those fake little personalizations (sorry, it doesn't impress me that he uses a [name] field and inserts your name in every other sentance to pretend he's actually talking to you) that's all that is really there.

N.E.D.

 

[Greg K.]

...I just looked over the user agreement. It's pretty restrictive.

Caveat emptor: no matter what anyone thinks, or argues, publishing or disseminating information provided exclusively on that website is taboo. That obviously includes how someone arranges their day -- since the itinerary is a key part of the site's appeal, and a critical component of Disney planning.

Or so it seems to me.

 

[jtm1631]

LOL, some day someone is going to copy that site and post it somewhere. You can't copyright the order to visit attractions in, LOL - much less attractions you don't own the rights to in the first place. He may be able to cancel accounts, but legally - yes, his words themselves are copyrighted just like any one commits to paper/computer, but the advice isn't. You can't copyright facts. And once you take out those fake little personalizations (sorry, it doesn't impress me that he uses a [name] field and inserts your name in every other sentance to pretend he's actually talking to you) that's all that is really there.

N.E.D.

Wow N.E.D. you broke the code. Here all this time I thought TGM was actually typing all of that information up only for me.

I also never realized that TGM was trying to copyright the Disney attractions, how exactly do you make that assumption?

I think you missed the point N.E.D. The point is that if you sign up for TGM you agree to abide by the user license. One of the terms of the license is that you agree not to share the informaiton from TGM (such as the order which TGM suggests you ride attractions). If you violate the license than TGM has the right to cancel your subscription to the web site. That N.E.D is a fact.

I don't think anybody is trying to copyright "facts" or Disney attractions, only to protect their business and the information (or facts) that are provided on a subscription basis.

 

[Pedler]

LOL, some day someone is going to copy that site and post it somewhere. You can't copyright the order to visit attractions in, LOL - much less attractions you don't own the rights to in the first place. He may be able to cancel accounts, but legally - yes, his words themselves are copyrighted just like any one commits to paper/computer, but the advice isn't. You can't copyright facts. And once you take out those fake little personalizations (sorry, it doesn't impress me that he uses a [name] field and inserts your name in every other sentance to pretend he's actually talking to you) that's all that is really there.

N.E.D.

I would also assume that you think it would be ok to subscribe to the www.touringplans.com paid for touring plans and then posting all of them over here? Or better yet just start entering the information right out of the book and put it on line. I believe that someone else posted a unofficial guide touring plan as well.

 

[Alice Sr.]

Ouch - ya never know what you're going to step into

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

Wow N.E.D. you broke the code. Here all this time I thought TGM was actually typing all of that information up only for me.

Sarcasm isn't your strong point...but you do prove what I was trying to express. Everyone knows it's fake, so when it's done in every other sentence, well...it looses effect and just seems silly. Totally minor point, however.

I also never realized that TGM was trying to copyright the Disney attractions, how exactly do you make that assumption?

Perhaps I should have been more clear, when I said "You can't copyright the order to visit attractions in, LOL - much less attractions you don't own the rights to in the first place." I would think anyone would be able to see what I meant, but let me spell it out for you : "You can't copyright the order to visit attractions in, LOL - much less (copyright the order to visit) attractions you don't own the rights to in the first place." I will endeavor to be more redundant in the future.

The simple point is, if you don't own something, you really can't claim ownership to an ordered inventory of said items (that you do not own).

I think you missed the point N.E.D. The point is that if you sign up for TGM you agree to abide by the user license. One of the terms of the license is that you agree not to share the informaiton from TGM (such as the order which TGM suggests you ride attractions). If you violate the license than TGM has the right to cancel your subscription to the web site. That N.E.D is a fact.

A fact which I have not disputed. I actually pointed out that indeed, he can cancel anything he wants. It's his service.

It's just that, legally, that's all he can do. If someone went and copied all his "advice" off that site and posted it elsewhere, there is nothing legally he could do as long as they didn't steal his graphics and exact wordings.

I mean, look at what the OP posted. A bunch of common sense. Enter park, get guidebook. Go to Space Mountain first, Buzz Lightyear second. OMG! Who would have EVER thought to do that? LOL. That's why, as I've said before, TGM is just a bunch of common sense. People always talk about all this super-secret info that is there, and it's not - just a culmination of facts that you could get yourself from reading elsewhere. It's not an insult, just a fact.

I don't think anybody is trying to copyright "facts" or Disney attractions, only to protect their business and the information (or facts) that are provided on a subscription basis.

My simple point is, from a legal standpoint, his EULA is pretty weak. He has every right to cancel accounts, but not much else. And I don't think the OP was attempting to do anything wrong - he was simply making his itenerary from the "sources" at TGM and asking for advice by posting it. It wasn't like he was posting, "HEY LOOK AT WHAT I GOT FROM TGM!" He didn't even know what he did, hence this thread.

I'm sorry, I just don't subscribe to the cult of TGM like some people do. I did at one time, but didn't find anything about the experience good - from the payment system (paying the same for two weeks or two years on the site isn't fair - I'm sure most people just lie about the dates they are traveling to get a longer subscription) to the endless redundancy (to such a point that the information is copied/pasted several times in the SAME article) to the fact that it's really not a "planner" just a series of annoyingly written (at least to my ear) articles that once you remove all the fake "talking directly to you" stuff really have very little content.

I tried to like TGM since so many people do. Heck, I even subscribed TWICE. But I learned my lesson - and though it seems many people enjoy it, I don't think there is anything wrong with holding the opposite opinion. I'm glad you enjoy TGM - I didn't see a use for it. I guess if maybe if I didn't have a lot of experience at WDW or access to boards like this I'd find it much more useful - but again, that order of attractions in the list referenced above is pretty generic - if you had been sitting next to me on a bus and asked my advice I would have sketched out a plan just about identical.

LOL, maybe I should start my own service. Mine would be free though - I don't believe in making money off of other Disney fans. It just doesn't sit well with me. :shrug:

N.E.D.

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

N.E.D I wish you had posted prior to my signup with TGM. I know alot of people swear by it but I get more information out of this sight. There is some useful information but not worth the subscription price to me.
His touring plans just don't make in my situation.
I won't get into the details as to why since I don't want my subscription turned off.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

N.E.D I wish you had posted prior to my signup with TGM. I know alot of people swear by it but I get more information out of this sight. There is some useful information but not worth the subscription price to me.
His touring plans just don't make in my situation.
I won't get into the details as to why since I don't want my subscription turned off.

I'm sorry.

I have mentioned it before, but there are a certain amount of people on this board who (as evidenced in this thread) really enjoy TGM and treat it like it's sacred. They get upset when someone disagrees, so I usually keep my mouth shut about the topic.

I'm a very fast reader, and over a weekend where I was snowed in by a blizzard I read most of the articles on his site. So much of it was redunant it made my head spin - and there was just very little actual planning advice. I really hadn't read anything I didn't know from reading here, AllEars, or years of reading the Unoffical Guide. In spite of that, for my next trip I subscribed yet again because everyone on these boards kept insisting that I was missing something. I spent a few weeks trying it out that time - and again read the same articles I did before. I explored every nook and crannie - I was DETERMINED to find something useful. I didn't.

It's not hard to know when to hit the big attractions (insert name), and that is what TGM is admittedly about. Be there early (insert name), hit the big ones first or last, eat early/late (and don't schedule a character breakfast during EMH or you won't get to go on rides!), avoid EMH nights if you don't like crowds, and EMH mornings are great because most people don't like to get up early on vacation.

That about sums up 70% of the content of TGM, LOL.

In all honestly, I think most people who continue to subscribe to TGM just do so for his message boards. Unfortunately, I don't use Internet Exploiter as a web browser and I am behind a firewall, and his forums won't work for me so I can't comment on their content. However, even if I did have access - there are tons of FREE Disney boards with ALL KINDS of people giving advice from many perspectives. There are people who post on these boards daily who are current CM's, and people like me who do the best we can to help people. I think it's better to hear what lots of people have to say and decide for yourself.

I am glad people feel like they get their investment back, but I think there are many more people like yourself who have subscribed, given it a try, and walked away feeling ripped off and just write it off to a bad experience.

N.E.D.

 

[mattr555]

My reason for posting my TGM "based" itinerary was that there seems to be a large degree of difference between the advice offered by TGM and the UG. Both sources refuse to discuss each others advice so for independent analysis and comparison I sought the advice of the knowledgeable DIS boarders. I am glad I did. Most of the responses to my OP stated that it was unworkable (many also commented it was nothing like a TGM plan) and I have since curtailed my plans somewhat.

If Mike is pissed about my post then that is his prerogative. I would have appreciated a response to my email explaining that my account had been deactivated. An error message saying "expired" is no use to anyone and an email response is just common courtesy. The lack of one relects poorly on him and his customer service skills.

I didn’t copy Mike's site verbatim nor copy and paste, and I have to agree with the previous poster that facts cannot be protected by copyright. I did not use Mike's words, layout, writing style, or images. Mike makes $94 an hour, its not like the guy needs the money from the website. I'm not saying his advice isnt worth anything but to me, it seems a little anal to be scouring opposition forums looking for alleged plagiarised posts. If that floats his boat then I say live and let live. No hard feelings Tour Gimp Mike.

Below I have suggested an appropriate response for Mike to use if he encounters a similar situation again. This time I blantently confess to copying Mike's writing style 100% :

"Hi Matt, Thanks for posting my tips and guides on another website. That was really naughty Matt. Matt, have you considered I might deactiviate your account? Thats right Matt, deactivate! If you have a problem with my advice Matt, why not ask me. Yes, your friendly guide Mike; always here to help. So next time you have a query Matt, email me. You never know Matt, I might even reply."

 

[goodferry]

Geesh people, some of you need some anger management classes. TGM offers your money back if you are not completely happy with his services. It is true that everybody tours in a different way and what is good for one person may not work out for another. For us, his information has been invaluable. I don't know of any other touring plan that is altered regularly based on what is actually happening at disney. Mike is in the parks on a regular basis, he knows where to go and where not to go at what time, and this information is passed on through his site. Just MHO, we all have one, that's what's great about debate!

 

[Pedler]

LOL, maybe I should start my own service. Mine would be free though - I don't believe in making money off of other Disney fans. It just doesn't sit well with me. :shrug:

N.E.D.

N.E.D. You still did not answer my question. TGM and the Unofficial Guide both provide similar information though in a different style and they do make money off of other Disney fans. Is just that you don't like TGM our are you consistent in your disdain for companies that make money from Disney Fans? If you are consistent they you should be equally as unhappy with www.touringplans.com.

On another note I think they can copyright a specific touring plan meaning that if you got the information there you are obligated to use it under the terms of thier agreement. That doesn't mean they are the only ones that can come up with that plan. They don't have a patent just a copyright. If another organization or person came up with the same plan indepentantly TGM would not be able to do anything.

 

[kutchyone]

NED, I respect your right to have your own opinion. Have a good day.

Matt, I agree that you probably should have received a message telling you that you were no longer a member.

eeyor......, why not ask for a refund. You may be able to get a partial refund back. From what I understand Mike is good about honoring refunds if requested.

Please rember we all have a right to make a living by doing anything legal that we want. You can't possibly hold that agains TGM.

 

[bigcrit]

I will say that Mike is wrong if you lost your subscription by a post on another board by "potentially" anyone. I would think he would ask if you were "so and so" and if you said yes you were one of his customers that he could ban you from his site for violating his user agreement. But if he never asked and assumed by location or username you were one of his clients he could. Yes I know now that you are one of his customers but it was still inconsiderate of him to not even email you first. Considering at that time you could have been anyone.

I would like to research the itinerary you posted. To see if before TGM posted his site, if it had ever been printed before. Mike would have to prove that going to A then B then C was his original "intellectual property". It was obvious to me, it was not his material due to what you had posted. If it proves to be that going to A then B then C is someone else's property then Mike himself should be liable. I think you should receive a full refund for what he is "accusing" you of. If not I would file a complaint in my local government. No matter what Mike claims in his EULA he himself must follow the law. He cannot take your money and close your account or give a partial refund for what essentially hasn't been rendered nor "legally" proven violated.

 

[bigcrit]

double posted....... sorry.