Top of the World Lounge at Bay Lake Tower at Contemporary Resort - *2 New Parties Added! “Enchantment at the Top” & New “Bound to Be Bad” Dates Added

[McCrae]

I am a blue card holder and am not a fan regarding how restrictions are being placed on resale owners… I want a strong resale market incase I decide to sell one day. I do though think for events where spaces are limited a strong argument could be made for giving blue card holders priority. I own at BLT and I have no issues with the Lounge being shared with other guests. Outside of fireworks the lounge was rarely busy. The same goes with other uses of points… if someone wants to spend points on cruises etc.l. Let them do it…it has no negative impact on other members . This is though all about how Disney can make more money.

 

[Wiltony]

The more we dissect the whole matter the more upset I get at Disney in general for allowing DVD to take it and make it exclusive. Disney gave away a perk to its paying guests at contemporary and BLT, I assume they could've required DVD to maintain access for those guests but didn't care or bother to. I'm also assuming contemporary guests previously had access too but I could be wrong about that.

Speaking for myself as a BLT-owning blue card holder, I'm not interested in excluding others. It just sounds like DVD is continually trying to find more ways to incentivize/reward those who bought direct, especially now that APs aren't available (and haven't been available for some time), which was their biggest blue-card incentive.

I think a happy medium would have been to allow access for all blue-card holders staying anywhere, plus anyone staying at BLT regardless of their status.

I would legit be sour if I owned at, and was staying at BLT, but was still barred from visiting TOTWL, and I totally sympathize with anyone in that situation.

 

[Jenglish13]

But curious, if your resale broker had made it clear to you that you had no right as an owner to access to TOTWL, that it wasn’t part of DVC and your contract…would you have still bought there?

Great questions, and at the risk of being scolded again for discussing my own personal circumstance I'll chance it because I think it's relevant to what we're discussing...I have two young daughters, one is almost 5 and the other is 6 months, so MK will be the central attraction for us for a long time. The short walk from BLT is huge for us, though I've heard rumors that DVC will no longer allow resale owners access to the walking path and instead make us take a bus to DS to transfer for a bus to MK.

I narrowed down the options to BWV, BCV and BLT, I just really like the letter B. For reasons I still don't understand, the wife hated BWV, was lukewarm on BCV and really liked BLT. All our research was online, articles and you tube etc. I was basically a DVC rep selling my wife on the whole idea. The only time totwl factored in to my sales pitch was analyzing BLT point chart and I made the point that I saw no reason to spend extra points on lake or park view rooms when we could just go up to totwl to take in the fireworks if we really needed to see the same fireworks show over and over and over lol! I can't spend tens of thousands of discretionary dollars on something without that warm fuzzy feeling Disney is so good at instilling and yes I'll admit to a small extent the idea of visiting totwl contributed to that feeling.

I made my offer on April 29, passed ROFR (happily surprised) on May 24, closed on June 17 (still waiting for account & points) and found out I would not be welcome at totwl on June 24. So timing probably plays a role in the degree of my annoyance. Ranting and raving here has actually been therapeutic. I'm honestly over it now. I know I've irritated some and I'm sorry and I thank you for the free therapy. I've now mourned the loss of something I've never had!

I made two different offers on BLT with two different brokers, I cancelled one within ten days. Totwl never came up in any of the correspondence, it's status may have been disclosed somewhere but I didn't notice it or pay particular attention. Also totwl was not open to anyone during this entire time. I'd already researched exhaustively and wasn't asking any questions, I just wanted the points. Would I still buy BLT resale knowing I'd lose access to totwl? absolutely, 100%. The only thing I'd change in hindsight would be to allocate my 270 points differently. If I could do it over I'd get around 220 at BLT and 50 at BCV. But maybe now I'll spend more points at BLT for rooms with views and just get some extra points for BCV. Perhaps I'll get a case of addonitis soon!

Some have commented with a little smugness things like, oh I guess restrictions matter now to resale buyers. I don't think that's really true.
It seems to me it's only me and one other poster here that are pissed off and that's because we're BLT owners specifically and as I explained above for me the timing of it all stung a little extra for me. Those same people mocking others for $30,000 popcorn buckets would likely just add they hope you also enjoy your $6,000 martinis or whatever. I'm not engaging in that, I think both are unnecessarily smug. I'm firmly in your camp, there's no fine print, we all perform due diligence and bargain for and get what we want. Both resale and direct are taking their own calculated chances/risks with what DVD may or may not do in the future. I personally don't see the value in buying direct with the possible current exception of VGF, maybe. But so what? If you do see the value in it you don't need my approval or validation and vice versa. As the great and wise Paulie D from Jersey Shore once said, "You do you!"

 

[Jenglish13]

But is there any precedent allowing WDW hotel guests access to a DVC member perk just because it’s on-site? We just got back from Aulani, where on Monday mornings there was a special get together on the back lawn just for DVC members. Should all hotel guests have been allowed to attend, just because the back lawn is part of the hotel?

I would quibble over the difference between attending an event vs allowed access to a space.

 

[Wiltony]

though I've heard rumors that DVC will no longer allow resale owners access to the walking path and instead make us take a bus to DS to transfer for a bus to MK

LOL WUT

 

[DonMacGregor]

I have two young daughters, one is almost 5 and the other is 6 months, so MK will be the central attraction for us for a long time. The short walk from BLT is huge for us, though I've heard rumors that DVC will no longer allow resale owners access to the walking path and instead make us take a bus to DS to transfer for a bus to MK.

Huh?

 

[Jenglish13]

Speaking for myself as a BLT-owning blue card holder, I'm not interested in excluding others. It just sounds like DVD is continually trying to find more ways to incentivize/reward those who bought direct, especially now that APs aren't available (and haven't been available for some time), which was their biggest blue-card incentive.

I think a happy medium would have been to allow access for all blue-card holders staying anywhere, plus anyone staying at BLT regardless of their status.

I would legit be sour if I owned at, and was staying at BLT, but was still barred from visiting TOTWL, and I totally sympathize with anyone in that situation.

Amen. Just seems like such common sense to me! Thank you for your decency and sympathy! Cheers!

 

[Jenglish13]

LOL WUT

Sorry, trying to be funny! Though I really should be careful not to give them any ideas!

 

[BL2020]

It seems to me it's only me and one other poster here that are pissed off and that's because we're BLT owners specifically and as I explained above for me the timing of it all stung a little extra for me.

I'm in the same boat, bought BLT resale in 2020, 150 points @ $135. Have canceled several trips due to covid and have our first trip planned for Oct ( though not staying at BLT, split stay AKL, BWV & SS). Our first trip to BLT is in Jan 2023. So I am kind of miffed since I've been reading about TOTWL since the build of BLT. I also think the villain theming would be fun. But certainly not a deal breaker and will likely get to see it someday when traveling with relatives that are blue card holders. There are so many venues at WDW that I've yet to try or want to do again, it really won't be missed.

 

[Sandisw]

It will be interesting if this is the final status of this perk. While DVD is apparently subsidizing it now, the vendor is still expecting a certain volume of sales. This venue was initially limited to BLT owners I believe, then opened to all DVC. Was it also opened to anyone staying at the resort? I don't remember for certain, but thought it was. If the volume is not what the vendor expects it may be renegotiated to increase sales. For example opening it to those with current reservations at BLT would make sense and still limiting additional access to direct owners who are not staying at the resort.

That is the way unknown but DVD making it what they have means Disney agreed to than to allow it to happen as they are the one who was running it.

So, when it was not exclusive only one needing the profit was Disney.

Now, DVD, like the Epcot Lounge, is most likely paying for the 6 hours to lease the space. What we don’t know, is whether or not the deal has DVD giving Disney the same profit they were getting when it was open to all.

If that is the case, then how much money this makes will get less important…

For example, say Disney made a profit of $10k a month on the lounge prior to closing. Now f DVD is using their marketing followers to give Disney that $10k…Disney won’t care what profit it makes above that in the same way they did before.

So the set up before didn’t really involve DVD paying for access for DVC It’s why it’s opening was in the sole hands of Disney who run it.

Granted, DVD can decide it’s not worth it..just like closing the Epcot Lounge. But that doesn’t mean Disney will decide to continue operating it. It could end up like the Attic. Private or paid events only.

 

[Sandisw]

Gotta be enticing enough for most resale owners to jump onboard.

But they don’t want resale owners to jump on board. They want it so the only way to get access is to buy direct. Like it or not, Disney decided to lett it become a DVC membership perk..and no way it’s not costing them big time for this.

 

[Paul Stupin]

I would quibble over the difference between attending an event vs allowed access to a space.

Many resale buyers (of which I am one as well, and own way more resale than direct points) have brought up hundreds of times over the last few years that I’ve been on the boards that direct perks can get taken away at a moment‘s notice, that it’s foolish to buy direct for the perks. So resale owners have been very aware of how perks can come and go, no? Not sure why it’s a surprise that no DVC owner is insulated from the process.

 

[Sandisw]

I get the exclusive perk, my point is does it really lose its luster if they made it just slightly less exclusive by allowing resort guests to also access a facility located within the same resort? Again I'm new and I've never even stepped foot inside totwl or BLT for that matter! Does the lounge get too crowded if all have access? But even if that is the case, is that really going to push someone away from a direct purchase and into resale? Or is someone like me that is intent at owning at BLT, supposed to suddenly say oh ok I'll pay DVD $265 per point instead of $150-170 per point by resale so I can visit a lounge with nice views? And yes, I know there's much more than just totwl access involved , but the point still stands, in changing the status of this one venue did they really have to take away access from other guests staying at the resort for it to matter as a blue card benefit? If you're a current or prospective blue card member, is the exclusion of non blue card members from totwl important to you? If yes, then I'm sorry but I think you deserve a little of the teasing and mockery for being a little snobbish that some of us are dishing out.

The more we dissect the whole matter the more upset I get at Disney in general for allowing DVD to take it and make it exclusive. Disney gave away a perk to its paying guests at contemporary and BLT, I assume they could've required DVD to maintain access for those guests but didn't care or bother to. I'm also assuming contemporary guests previously had access too but I could be wrong about that.

It may very well make it more popular. They are now allowing people to park..that might entice more owners to visit who didn’t before because they had to take Disney transportation.

Had it been crowded? Yes. I have been several times and couldn’t get a seat when getting there about an hour before fireworks. Other times, it was no issue. But I never visited once in which the deck wasn’t full of people for simply watching fireworks and if I got there too close to 9 pm, I did not get a great spot.

Again, they are not targeting new buyers who want BLT. It’s targeting someone who wants DVC and isn’t too concerned about home resort because they can trade to it at 7 months. While we here know it’s harder than that, many buyers do not.

They aren’t even really targeting you who has BLT already into buying more BLT from there. They want you to want access and maybe add 150 more points at RIV or VGF.

They also want people on boards like this, when someone asks what do I get if I spend more for direct to now be able to say not only Epcot Lounge, but TOTWL too..along with all the other things.

And, if they really needed more revenue, Disney could have always opened it up to cash guests at BLT years ago. They didn’t so they obviously weren’t worried about upsetting CR or BLT guests who were not DVC paying big bucks to stay there in cash.

So, it appears that whatever this deal is was enough for Disney because Disney doesn’t make decisions with the other divisions that they don’t think is a plus for them.

And I do think more of these lounges will pop up at other DVC resorts or WDW hotels

 

[Brian Noble]

Most people spend $30k with some thought to their financial outlay.

You would think so. But---at least when it comes to timeshares---you'd be wrong surprisingly often.

Timeshare is a product that is sold, not bought. That's surprising around here, because these boards have a bunch of people actively trying to buy DVC contracts. But, we DISers are most definitely not the common case.

Instead, the common case is someone on vacation, having the time of their lives, who gets talked into a tour by a body snatcher in a DVC kiosk. They go on a tour with a very nice Guide who just happens to know how they can bottle this magical vacation feeling. If they buy--with a very affordable monthly payment--they can "stay at Disney destinations for decades to come, and save up to 50% on future accommodations—locking in tomorrow’s vacations at today’s purchase price."

That sounds like a great idea to a lot of people. For many it is an aspirational purchase--it makes possible something that they might not do otherwise, something that carries a bit of status, and feels good besides. They are investing in family togetherness! So they sign.

The disclosures they sign include the cooling off period, and they notice that. But, they don't do any investigation after the fact. How often do we see a new buyer come here to ask whether or not they should rescind? It almost never happens. (It almost never happens on TUG for any other timeshare either.) For those who do, many of them can't be talked into rescinding, and instead allow the cooling-off period to expire.

That's because they do not want to know that this decision that feels so good is wrong.

Right now, the sentiment on DISboards is fairly split between "resale is the only sensible alternative" and "direct can make sense a lot of the time." Before the Blue Card/White Card split, RIV restrictions, etc. the sentiment here on DIS was overwhelmingly in favor of resale purchases, and it was without fail the common advice. Even then Disney had no problem selling new contracts to folks.

And it's not just Disney. Plenty of timeshare developers have timeshares flying off the shelves even though their resale/direct split is significantly larger. Take Wyndham, for example: their contracts lose about 80% of their value at the time the ink dries on the contract---and that might be generous. Everyone who knows anything about the resale market for that system will tell you that even though there are all kinds of direct perks, none of them are possibly worth the difference in price. In the words of Dwayne The Rock Johnson, frequent Disney movie star: It doesn't matter. Wyndham sales agents laugh all the way to the bank.

So, why have the resale distinctions at all then? It's fairly common--Wyndham has them as well--and it serves as another arrow in the sales agent's quiver. They can be used pre-emptively, to head off later exploration of the resale market during the cooling off period. They can also be used to help sow FUD with the prospect who happens to know that resale exists. Are the distinctions needed? No. Do they help? You bet.

Finally, even if prospective buyers come here and read the Wrath of DIS, and even if you convince them that resale buyers are treated poorly by Disney, you are only helping make the case that a direct purchase makes sense for someone who wants to be a DVC owner. You may convince a few people not to buy at all, but those people were probably not going to be candidates for a direct purchase in the first place--they are not choosing between direct and resale, but resale and no sale.

Don't underestimate the savvy buyer...

"No one in this world, so far as I know ... has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people." --H. L. Mencken

 

[Jenglish13]

Many resale buyers (of which I am one as well, and own way more resale than direct points) have brought up hundreds of times over the last few years that I’ve been on the boards that direct perks can get taken away at a moment‘s notice, that it’s foolish to buy direct for the perks. So resale owners have been very aware of how perks can come and go, no? Not sure why it’s a surprise that no DVC owner is insulated from the process.

What does that have to do with my quibbling over the difference between attending a specific event vs being allowed to enter a space?

 

[DonMacGregor]

Instead, the common case is someone on vacation, having the time of their lives, who gets talked into a tour by a body snatcher in a DVC kiosk. They go on a tour with a very nice Guide who just happens to know how they can bottle this magical vacation feeling. If they buy--with a very affordable monthly payment--they can "stay at Disney destinations for decades to come, and save up to 50% on future accommodations—locking in tomorrow’s vacations at today’s purchase price."

 

[Brian Noble]

Imagine Mickey on the street below with a wicker basket, catching as much as he can.

In my darker moments, I wonder how good I'd be at timeshare sales. I think I'd be pretty good, but am not sure I want to sell my soul for so little.

 

[Sandisw]

Great questions, and at the risk of being scolded again for discussing my own personal circumstance I'll chance it because I think it's relevant to what we're discussing...I have two young daughters, one is almost 5 and the other is 6 months, so MK will be the central attraction for us for a long time. The short walk from BLT is huge for us, though I've heard rumors that DVC will no longer allow resale owners access to the walking path and instead make us take a bus to DS to transfer for a bus to MK.

I narrowed down the options to BWV, BCV and BLT, I just really like the letter B. For reasons I still don't understand, the wife hated BWV, was lukewarm on BCV and really liked BLT. All our research was online, articles and you tube etc. I was basically a DVC rep selling my wife on the whole idea. The only time totwl factored in to my sales pitch was analyzing BLT point chart and I made the point that I saw no reason to spend extra points on lake or park view rooms when we could just go up to totwl to take in the fireworks if we really needed to see the same fireworks show over and over and over lol! I can't spend tens of thousands of discretionary dollars on something without that warm fuzzy feeling Disney is so good at instilling and yes I'll admit to a small extent the idea of visiting totwl contributed to that feeling.

I made my offer on April 29, passed ROFR (happily surprised) on May 24, closed on June 17 (still waiting for account & points) and found out I would not be welcome at totwl on June 24. So timing probably plays a role in the degree of my annoyance. Ranting and raving here has actually been therapeutic. I'm honestly over it now. I know I've irritated some and I'm sorry and I thank you for the free therapy. I've now mourned the loss of something I've never had!

I made two different offers on BLT with two different brokers, I cancelled one within ten days. Totwl never came up in any of the correspondence, it's status may have been disclosed somewhere but I didn't notice it or pay particular attention. Also totwl was not open to anyone during this entire time. I'd already researched exhaustively and wasn't asking any questions, I just wanted the points. Would I still buy BLT resale knowing I'd lose access to totwl? absolutely, 100%. The only thing I'd change in hindsight would be to allocate my 270 points differently. If I could do it over I'd get around 220 at BLT and 50 at BCV. But maybe now I'll spend more points at BLT for rooms with views and just get some extra points for BCV. Perhaps I'll get a case of addonitis soon!

Some have commented with a little smugness things like, oh I guess restrictions matter now to resale buyers. I don't think that's really true.
It seems to me it's only me and one other poster here that are pissed off and that's because we're BLT owners specifically and as I explained above for me the timing of it all stung a little extra for me. Those same people mocking others for $30,000 popcorn buckets would likely just add they hope you also enjoy your $6,000 martinis or whatever. I'm not engaging in that, I think both are unnecessarily smug. I'm firmly in your camp, there's no fine print, we all perform due diligence and bargain for and get what we want. Both resale and direct are taking their own calculated chances/risks with what DVD may or may not do in the future. I personally don't see the value in buying direct with the possible current exception of VGF, maybe. But so what? If you do see the value in it you don't need my approval or validation and vice versa. As the great and wise Paulie D from Jersey Shore once said, "You do you!"

Thanks for sharing. Not to say it again, but I am a RIV owner and can’t get into Toppolinos unless I have a reservation even though I own there. I can’t even go up there when I stay there unless I have a reservation or their is room at the bar for walk up.

So, as an owner I am barred and can’t spend my money there. Now, some will say it’s not the same but it is pretty close.

It’s a commercial space that requires me, as an owner, to have the right type of admission. A reservation.

Of course, I at least have the chance and BLT owners without blue card don’t until they get one…but the premise is the same.

Being an owner doesn’t get me special privileges at Toppolinos even though it’s right there

So I just can’t agree with the argument that being a BLT owner matters because every DVC resort have spaces that could become exclusive at any time.

I also don’t think they comments are meant to be as smuggish as you think they are but there is a bit of truth that perks don’t matter until one that does that you didn’t even realize was a perk is gone. Then it does.

As you mention, not having access would not have changed your decision because you can’t make buying direct work. And the extras DVD gives people doesn’t offset it enough for you to own direct.

Unfortunately, plenty of people do and because of it, DVD has made sales they wouldn’t have made. I have bought 475 direct that I would not have if it wasn’t for the restrictions and the membership extra differences.

Just going to say again, I get the disappointment but objectively, many of us felt this was coming.

 

[Sandisw]

Sorry, trying to be funny! Though I really should be careful not to give them any ideas!

That idea is safe! But yeah, always need to be careful because even the smallest one could get spun!!!!!

 

[Paul Stupin]

What does that have to do with my quibbling over the difference between attending a specific event vs being allowed to enter a space?

Specific events happen in specific spaces, so I don't think you can differentiate between the two. Its just that everyone is bending over backwards to parse why losing this one perk is wrong, when we've all known that all perks come and go, and that it can affect every single DVC owner. Resale owners don't buy for the perks anyway, do they?