Thoughts on visiting other cultures

[cathie1327]

I guess what I wonder is if this actually works. Do boycotts really accomplish the intended goal or do they end up hurting the little guy and having little to no effect on the government or the big corporation? We talked about this after the BP spill and people were not buying BP gas. That ended up hurting all of the independent station owners who don't work for BP and had absolutely nothing to do with the spill.

Is the same true of travel? By not going to a country with a government that has oppressive policies, are we hurting the folks who are being oppressed? Would we accomplish more toward empowering those oppressed citizens by visiting their country, spending our money in their shops and restaurants, buying their goods and putting money into their pockets?

I certainly don't know the answer but I think it is worth thinking about.

It is an interesting question to ask. But as I said before, for me, it really boils down to personal beliefs and companies having set boundaries where ethics are concerned...and even if in the overall picture they don't notice your dollars are missing....you know they are and for me, it's important personally to know that I'm not supporting/contributing to something that allows/encourages certain things.

Before I was born, an oil company under watch of the government had buried some wastes in land here in CO near where my parents lived. When I was about 2, they decided to dig it all up. We all got very, very sick. It ruined our water table for the entire area. People's pets died. We got settlements to go away quietly, because when it all boils down, you can't sue the government.

However, to this day, I DO NOT buy gas under that brand. Is the gas station selling it to blame for what happened? Of course not. However, it is their moral responsibility to know the history/views of the company they're supporting financially. And I chose to not participate in the financial support of any company that supports another company who acts questionably in my mind.

 

[disneysteve]

I would never support any organization that espoused hate and violence.

Agreed. Neither would I. I guess the point I was shooting for was if you separate the people from the government. Just because the government of a particular country is anti-homosexuality or anti-Jewish or anti-whatever doesn't mean the guy selling cold drinks on the dock is or the fellow driving the tour bus is or the woman selling handmade jewelry in the marketplace is. Those folks welcome tourists with open arms as their livelihood depends on them. By not visiting a country because you disagree with government policies, who are you actually hurting (general you, not speaking to you personally, Kevin).

There are plenty of government policies right here in the US that I disagree with. Our own government has very clear policies which discriminate against homosexuals, for example. Does that mean I shouldn't support businesses in the US?

I guess I'm having some trouble seeing where people choose to draw their own personal line in the sand.

 

[jcb]

I guess I'm having some trouble seeing where people choose to draw their own personal line in the sand.

Everyone has to draw their own line in the sand. Life is never "black and white." (Unless you are a Sith Lord, of course.) That would be too easy.

To me this is a question of degrees. I detest some of my state's policies. I don't live here because I agree with them but in spite of them. (I love the mountains).

Even so, the state's policies don't cause or have the effect of dismembering or killing people because of their sex or sexual preference. To me, that is an easy line to draw.

 

[Cap.Steamboat Willie]

Personally....I can not spend my hard earned dollars in a country that has outlawed my life and doesnt feel strongly about my safety while visiting.

I understand that something unfortunate can happen anywhere you travel, but when one is breaking the law simply by being....then I cant, in good conscience, support that economy.

I would never support any organization that espoused hate and violence.

Just cant do it.

Well said Kevin. I totally agree with your sentiments.

Being Cuban I have been quite familiar with boycotting a particular government.

At times I've had to defend my point of view even though it is not shared by all fellow Americans.

But no politics talk on the boards.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Agreed. Neither would I. I guess the point I was shooting for was if you separate the people from the government. Just because the government of a particular country is anti-homosexuality or anti-Jewish or anti-whatever doesn't mean the guy selling cold drinks on the dock is or the fellow driving the tour bus is or the woman selling handmade jewelry in the marketplace is. Those folks welcome tourists with open arms as their livelihood depends on them. By not visiting a country because you disagree with government policies, who are you actually hurting (general you, not speaking to you personally, Kevin).

The risk of being imprisoned or stoned to death because of who I am, outweighs the financial health of local trinket sellers.

Sorry. It's really cut and dried for me.

There are plenty of government policies right here in the US that I disagree with. Our own government has very clear policies which discriminate against homosexuals, for example. Does that mean I shouldn't support businesses in the US?

But...and this HUGE in my opinion....I am welcome to stand outside the offices of the people who represent me or even the President of the United States, and let them know that I disagree with those policies. While I must obey the laws of the land, I am not in fear of being imprisoned....or again, stoned to death for this.

There is a difference in not supporting a business whose practices you dont agree with and not going to a country with state sanctioned imprisonment of gay people. I'm guessing that you would have no problem staying out of a business with a "No Blacks Allowed" or a "We Dont Serve Jews" sign in the front window. On a larger scale, the knowledge that these are the policies of any given country is like seeing that sign in their front window. Granted, the folks selling the stuff inside the store might be great people, but if there is a chance that I could go to foreign prison for just being me.....well, the nice employees are on their own.

I guess I'm having some trouble seeing where people choose to draw their own personal line in the sand.

I think I've been pretty clear about not wanting to be imprisoned or stoned to death.

I have absolutely no qualms about observing local customs and traditions. I wore long pants to the Vatican and I NEVER wear long pants unless absolutely forced. That being said....I was in very little fear that the Swiss Guard would behead me if I tried to enter the Vatican wearing shorts.

So there is my line.....prison, stoning, beheading.....Im out.

 

[disneysteve]

Thanks, Kevin. That all makes perfect sense, and I agree.

So do you feel that DCL or ABD shouldn't offer trips and excursions to such places or are you okay with them offering them and just choose not to participate?

 

[DisneyKevin]

Thanks, Kevin. That all makes perfect sense, and I agree.

So do you feel that DCL or ABD shouldn't offer trips and excursions to such places or are you okay with them offering them and just choose not to participate?

I think people should be able to travel anywhere they want to go.

I'm not suggesting that anyone follow my lead, but as a travel agent, I feel it's my responsibility to arm you with information.

What anyone does with that information is entirely up to them.

 

[Simba One]

I would like to say I was in Tunisia on the Magic Med Cruise Sept 11 this year. Our DCL guide that took us ashore was dressed in a tank top and shorts. I was surprised as anyone being that we were warned ahead of time, yes, in the navigator, that we should dress appropriately. At no time did anyone from DCL stop anyone in our party or warn anyone to go back in and change. There were several 20 something yr old girls dressed totally inappropriate. One girl had on a tiny strapped mini dress. Given that it was 9/11 I was worried, but it was the day after Ramadan ended and most people in Tunis were sound asleep for the holiday so we saw very few people. Officials were few and far between. At no time did I ever feel unsafe in Tunisia except in the Medina market where our local guide left us to the mercy of the local men for an hour. I would gladly have skipped the market. We did the Sidi Bou Said, Cathage and Medina tour. Tunisia was definitely a one time stop but no regrets. I think maybe Ramadan saved us from being hassled. Thoughts?

 

[kaligal]

I'm so sick of hearing that we should appreciate everything done in the world as a "cultural difference."

First of all, the people espousing this will rarely, if ever, suggest that anyone appreciate anything American as a cultural difference.

Second...no. I won't. I'm not going to pretend that it is okay for these evil and/or crazy people to do whatever they please to whomever they please. It's not okay with me.

A cultural difference is not showing the bottom of your foot because that is considered rude or women wanting to eat seaweed after giving birth, because that's what all the women in their family do.

Being a violent lunatic isn't a cultural thing. It's an abhorrent thing.

I wouldn't be okay with it here and I'm not okay with it because they're doing it somewhere else that doesn't affect me.

And I'd like hell give them money to do it.

 

[dansyr2514]

I'm not opposed to certain issues as a matter of respect to another culture that I am visiting. Having my arms/legs covered because that is the custom, I have no problem with.
However, I agree with Kevin and many others. I would not give my tourist dollars to a country or culture who's ideas I'm against. I have no desire to visit a country that represses women or treats them as less than a person. If someone else would like to that is fine, I wouldn't try to stop them. But for me, I can't go against my beliefs.

 

[sayhello]

Boy, I missed this whole discussion. Which Podcast was this discussion on?

The problem with this year's first Med cruise was that the "clothing issue" was not announced on neither the navigators nor in the excursion descriptions. DCL changed that (we had friends on the next cruise and it was announced up front there). That was what was bothering us. When visiting Rome for example in the description of the excursion it said that you needed appropriate clothing for visiting the Vatican, so no problem there..
People were sent back by DCL by the way to change their clothes, before the leaving the Magic.

Not visiting Tunesia had more to do with the fact that many of us did not feel safe visiting the Medina of Tunis (I personally felt safe all the time) and the fact that Tunisian officials did not want to deal with the female officer the ship sent as its representative on arrival.

I would like to add that in my humble opinion it is important to show respect for other cultures, but I expected other cultures to show respect for my believes too.

That's interesting. I did the ABD add-on, and they let us know from the get-go long before we left (on the website, in the materials we received, the day before we went to Tunisia) that there was a certain dress code for that day. I'd say I knew months in advance. It's surprising that DCL did not do the same thing.

I never felt unsafe in Tunisia. Is this discussion re: the treatment of gays for Egypt, or does it include Tunisia, also? I'm embarrassed to say that if it *is* Tunisia, I went there without knowing anything about it.

Sayhello

 

[AWHOFAN]

What I heard is a UNSAFE place that does NOT OFFER MUCH for learning except that they treat women and gays as someone they choose not to have in this world. Ive been to many countries in Europe and except religious places they would not care what you wear. Just seem Disney should have tried the place before send paying customers to be told your kind is not welcome. It seem the women was not wearing anything that would be call disreputable. Think about it as one was judging the other for cloths not for a crime.