The future of teaching... scary!

[Marseeya]

I'm in my last semester of school before I have to start student teaching and I have to say that I am seriously worried about the future of teaching when it comes to some of my fellow classmates. Some of them are truly DUMB and I truly don't want them teaching MY kids.

We had to do teaching demonstrations last night in class and one girl was telling me that she has the vocabulary skills of a 6th grader and knows nothing about grammar. We are studying to be English teachers!!! Another girl I know gets really upset if someone disagrees with her when interpreting literature, and doesn't like kids. She can't speak a proper sentence to save her life, and one of her teachers told her that he didn't know how she made it through college because her writing skills are horrid (she admitted this to me). Also during our teaching demonstrations, there was a kid who was "urban" (not sure how else to describe him -- sideways baseball cap, saggy-baggy jeans, big shirt). He started introducing his lesson saying things like, "Yo, ya'll, now we're all gonna, ya know, yo, write a paragraph." You know the kind of speech I'm talking about? I could go on, but I think I would just scare everybody.

Now granted, we do have to take state exams to get certified. But don't you think there should be some kind of accountability before they even get to teacher education programs? Just to kind of weed out the bad apples?

And while I'm on my little rant, there's a new girl in the program who had already taught drama for a year. You know, when you join a new program, don't you typically try to adapt and find out your place and where you stand before jumping right into the fray? The very first day of class, we noticed that the makeup of the class was about half of us were already established with the program and know one another pretty well. The other half was brand new. This new girl started out ruffling feathers by actually making a snippy remark at one of the other students when he (a senior) made a joke. Last night in class, she stayed afterwards to talk to the professor and I was slow in cleaning up my stuff. She really caught my attention at one point by pointing at where I sit and saying, "that group back there" and then complaining to the professor about how unpolished some of the other students are. Of course they're "unpolished," it's their first time in an education class EVER. I'm not entirely sure what she was saying about my group, but I think she was complaining about us joking around so much. Well YES we're joking around, but we've earned the right to do that since it's our last semester! Anyway, I just can't get over that she would talk to the professor about her fellow students like that while half the class was still in the room.

If you made it this far, you get a cookie. Thanks for listening!

 

[lilouisianagal]

*sympathetic pat on the back* I wonder the same thing myself. I'm in elementary ed and yet some of the students struggle with lower level content. I'm talking basic arithmatic and simple grammar. In our state though, you are required to pass the PRAXIS before you go into upper level education classes. It's not particularly hard, but it does weed some people out. I've still decided that I will be homeschooling my kids (or at least doing magnet or montessori).

 

[Wishing on a star]

Wow!!!!

 

[wide awake]

It never ceases to amaze me...I've heard fellow teachers say things like "I never really got long division"..."I didn't understand fractions until I went to college"..."I don't like to read"...the PRAXIS exams don't mean much, if you take them 12-15 times you can eventually get enough repeat questions where you can pass. IMHO I think education classes are a joke...teachers would be much more prepared if they actually had to fill in the gaps in their subject knowledge. I also don't like the idea that you don't need to be as qualified to teach lower grades...reading is the most importent thing these kids will ever learn...I don't want Ms. Dummy who has never read a book...and isn't embarrassed to say so...teaching reading...or math for that matter.

 

[HayGan]

It is sad to say but when I was in college, education was a fall back major. If you couldn't cut it in one of the other schools (pharmacy or business) you usually became an education major. I often cringe when I think of some of those people teaching children

 

[Aurora63]

I remember being in the education program at my college. I can relate to a lot of what you are saying. But realize, even though they are like this now, they do have a shot of being a good teacher, IF they get their act together. As far as weeding out, I remember my program had tons of assignments and projects, not to mention field work, I believe to weed out those who wern't truly serious about the profession. It will happen with them as well. You either do the work and succeed, or you get eaten alive when it comes time to teach.

I wish I could remember the statistic, because it goes to show...something like 50% of new teachers leave teaching within the first 3 years! The bad ones do get weeded out, eventually (MOST of the time, anyway). But often, this is not completely due to an ineffective teacher, often it's a good teacher who is just not getting the support he or she needs.

And as far as education classes being a joke...in some cases, yes they are, but often they are truly needed...you do have to start somewhere! (BTW, I never understood subtraction with regrouping until college...I could do it, but I didn't understand why you had to "borrow" from the neighbor. Math methods cleared that up!)

I think that after college and student teaching, college eduction grads should be hired as "apprentice" teachers, working under a supervising teacher, and truly learning how to teach, both by observing and doing it. This way, teachers would become true masters, and our kids would be getting a better education...two adults in a room just allows for so much as far as activities, and management is easier.

It'll never happen, of course, due to the cost! Nice idea that I think would work if we could just put more into education.

Schviel over!

 

[Sleeping~Beauty]

Now granted, we do have to take state exams to get certified. But don't you think there should be some kind of accountability before they even get to teacher education programs? Just to kind of weed out the bad apples?

The state test where I live is so easy. It actually disturbed me that many of the teachers I took the test with failed.

I think that after college and student teaching, college eduction grads should be hired as "apprentice" teachers, working under a supervising teacher, and truly learning how to teach, both by observing and doing it. This way, teachers would become true masters, and our kids would be getting a better education...two adults in a room just allows for so much as far as activities, and management is easier.

NJ does have that mentorship program. It is mandatory for getting our permanent teaching certification. The first year it was implemented was 1993, the year I graduated, and many districts didn't really understand what it was.

What happens is: Upon graduating with an education degree (and at my college another major in addition), and then taking the teaching exam, you receive a provisional certificate.

When you are hired by a district, you work under the wing of an experienced teacher and still get evaluated. After the completion of one year, if all goes well, you get the permanent teaching certification. Unfortunately, if you teach in pre-school, you have to usually pay for the fees of the mentorship program yourself.

But often, this is not completely due to an ineffective teacher, often it's a good teacher who is just not getting the support he or she needs.

I think many more wonderful teachers get weeded out because of so many issues.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

If you couldn't cut it in one of the other schools (pharmacy or business) you usually became an education major.

ITA. It is one of the reasons that I fully support Alternative Certification for Teachers. Over the years my children have had some very good teachers who were obviously intelligent enough that they could have been quite sucessful in other fields.

Unfortunately, they have also had a few that I honestly felt shouldn't be allowed to obedience train a dog, much less teach a child.

 

[horseshowmom]

Now granted, we do have to take state exams to get certified. But don't you think there should be some kind of accountability before they even get to teacher education programs? Just to kind of weed out the bad apples?

In our state students must pass the Praxis I before being admitted to a teacher education program. After completing the teacher ed. program, they have to pass the Praxis II to obtain a license to teach (also the subtest that pertains to their area).

I know that we used to have the one year probationary license for first year teachers, but I'm not sure about now. (Since I'm a grant coordinator, I don't really deal with issues pertaining to beginning teachers, so I'm not sure if we still have it or it was phased out.)

 

[Marseeya]

Some of you can probably tell from my tag where I'm going to school.

Anyway, we have two different education programs. One of them is a 5-year program and it's really structured. Upon graduating from this program, the students will have a bachelors in their subject area and a masters in education. But it's not really a "true" masters degree, and some states (like PA where I live) don't recognize it as a masters degree. The thing is, the 5-year students believe they will have a "real" masters degree and consider themselves "graduate" students.

The program I'm in is a post baccalaureate masters program. I'll actually have a 2 1/2 year masters degree with a "true" bachelors in my subject area (I have a BA in English), plus all kinds of extra classes in my subject area. I'm all Englished out!

Sometimes the graduate classes overlap with the 5-year students and you can really tell the difference in the maturity and intellectual level between the two. The students I referred to in my OP are typically the 5-years. Some of them have had to retake the Praxis several times because they keep failing and it's just really amazing that they've made it this far with their lack of knowledge in English lit!

Anyway, I'm just glad you all understand where I'm coming from with this. It's so frustrating being in a profession that so few people respect, yet to have to deal with people who deserve the contempt! I'm not saying I'll be a perfect teacher, but I sure think I'll be qualified.

 

[Marseeya]

Wow!!!!

Tell me what you really think! (but don't get yourself in trouble)

 

[wide awake]

I like that, that you can't be admitted to a teaching program before passing the PRAXIS. I went to National for my credential...in California you have to have a BA to be admitted into a teaching program...for elementary teachers that know from day one what they're going to do it means they take Liberal Studies...and then they know teeny, tiny, particles of knowledge about lots of things...for single subject you have to have majored in the subject. If you're like me, and didn't have any desire to teach until I had my own child and wanted the flexibility...I have a BA in Economics, w/ a Chem minor...I had to take the CBEST (all CA teachers do), than the MSAT, and the RICA...loads of people at National hadn't passed any of the exams, yet were paying $12,500 for classes they might never be able to use. One of the books I love about teacher ed is called "Ed School Follies"...it is about 15 years old but I can't think much has changed. When I went through 7 years ago we all had to be CLAD certified, read culturally sensitive...so in every single class you had to present on a country...and you had to do it w/ at least one other person, God forbid we advocate personal accountability. Anyway my partner and I had Russia, and my partner was thrilled, she knew so much about Russia, it was her favorite country, she just had to do all of it, would it be okay w/ me if I just took festivals ? Okey dokey...comes presentation day, my partner is going over her outline, I notice there isn't one thing about the Russian Revolution...when I point this out she is baffled...I told her I'd be handling the history part, and that she needed to explain to the professor that she dropped the ball, and furthermore, don't ever expect to work w/ me again. What ever happened to the Laura Ingalls Wilder days when teachers were bright ? Also, I've never thought it a requirement to "love all kids"...I don't love all kids, I don't love all adults...but I'm fair, I have compassion, and at least my students always learn from me.

 

[RitaZ.]

So, where is my cookie?

Marseeya, you're a brave woman for posting about this. I predict that this thread will get heated...

 

[ImarriedGrumpy]

I have a B.Music in Voice, and decided to go back to school to get a M. Education - Professional Development degree so I could work on writing a good preschool music curriculum that would be useable by non-music preschool teachers. The program I was in tracked me with the Elementary and Early Childhood education majors - I would have 1 or 2 grad level education classes each semester and then the rest of my courses were with undergrads. It was scary!

I had many moments of downright horror as I listened to these students even bragging about their ignorance!! Of course, I was also horrified by some of the professors who would tell us about the importance of using creative teaching methods to reach all students, and then inform us that we should never write lesson plans using those methods because it isn't practical for getting students to pass the standardized tests.

What I learned in my M. Ed program? It's all about jumping through the right hoops, not intelligence or skill. You could be a brilliant teacher, but if you don't jump through the right hoops, you're out. Some of those students who bragged about their ignorance knew just how to jump through all the hoops, and they passed with flying colors. Some really creative, brilliant, engaging student teachers who didn't figure out how to jump through the hoops were cut. Scary...

 

[Marseeya]

Also, I've never thought it a requirement to "love all kids"...I don't love all kids, I don't love all adults...but I'm fair, I have compassion, and at least my students always learn from me.

I don't necessarily think you have to have the warm fuzzies for ALL kids, but a generalized love for kids would certainly be a huge bonus in a profession where you'll be working with them all day long. At the very least, a pre-teacher shouldn't dislike kids.

 

[crs7568]

I do not mean to offend you or your college at all but I wonder if the quality of teachers in your program has anything to do with the quality of your college? When I went to college the first class taken by education majors was Orientation to Teaching. We were given an exam by the college to ascertain our proficiency in the academic areas. Students who failed any portion of the exam were entitled to tutoring but were not accepted in the program until they successfully completed all portions of the exam. We were also placed in classrooms immediately and many of my classmates switched majors because they saw immediately that teaching was not the career for them.
The good news is that not only do these students you describe have to get through state exams but they also have to find a district that will hire them. Most districts require applicants to teach a sample lesson and I would imagine that their stupidity would be abundantly clear in the interview or the demonstration.
Good luck with the rest of your education. Teaching is a great job!

 

[barkley]

I like that, that you can't be admitted to a teaching program before passing the PRAXIS. I went to National for my credential...in California you have to have a BA to be admitted into a teaching program...for elementary teachers that know from day one what they're going to do it means they take Liberal Studies...and then they know teeny, tiny, particles of knowledge about lots of things...for single subject you have to have majored in the subject. If you're like me, and didn't have any desire to teach until I had my own child and wanted the flexibility...I have a BA in Economics, w/ a Chem minor...I had to take the CBEST (all CA teachers do), than the MSAT, and the RICA...loads of people at National hadn't passed any of the exams, yet were paying $12,500 for classes they might never be able to use. One of the books I love about teacher ed is called "Ed School Follies"...it is about 15 years old but I can't think much has changed. When I went through 7 years ago we all had to be CLAD certified, read culturally sensitive...so in every single class you had to present on a country...and you had to do it w/ at least one other person, God forbid we advocate personal accountability. Anyway my partner and I had Russia, and my partner was thrilled, she knew so much about Russia, it was her favorite country, she just had to do all of it, would it be okay w/ me if I just took festivals ? Okey dokey...comes presentation day, my partner is going over her outline, I notice there isn't one thing about the Russian Revolution...when I point this out she is baffled...I told her I'd be handling the history part, and that she needed to explain to the professor that she dropped the ball, and furthermore, don't ever expect to work w/ me again. What ever happened to the Laura Ingalls Wilder days when teachers were bright ? Also, I've never thought it a requirement to "love all kids"...I don't love all kids, I don't love all adults...but I'm fair, I have compassion, and at least my students always learn from me.

i don't think this is entirely correct-in california a student can be concurrently enrolled in their bachelor's and the credential program at a state or private university (i have 2 nephews who will be receiving thier bachelors as well as completing their credentialing program-entire coursework, student teaching-in may) they began their credentialing classes at about jr. year. i know of other students who have entered as freshman and began taking the credentialing coursework from the begining of year two. all of these individuals had to pass the requisite tests for acceptance into the credentialing programs, but possession of a bachelors degree was not required by the colleges or the state as a prerequisite.

back in the 80's when i got my bachelors and credential in california the university i attended did do a screening process for acceptance into the credentialing program. we were required to do a written essay (you were given the topic at your interview and a set amount of time to complete it on the spot) and you underwent an oral interview with members of the university's credentialing professors. applicants from day one were advised that entrance to the program could be denied based on the outcome of the written essay or the oral interview.

we also had 3 choices of majors that would meet the multiple subject (k-12/1 classroom) bachelor's requirement: liberal arts, environmental studies, and early childhood education (but ece only allowed for a limited credential for k-3 in california-don't think this is even an option any more).

the thing that truly surpised me as a teaching student was the lack of education in child development. i found that the classes i had taken to get an associates degree in early childhood education prepared me so much better for working with children-i was saddened that many key concepts were simply overlooked in the teaching program.

note-i was curious about this, so a couple of hours after my posting i went and checked out the web sites for both the public university i attended as well as the private college my nephews attend. both do offer "blended" programs that allow a student to complete their bachelors and teaching credential at the same time.