Survivor 50 Thread

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

He didn't have that. I'm not making excuses for him. Just putting it in perspective that he came in with a different mindset than Aubry, Jonathan, Ozzy and others who spoke of how much they reflected, studied and worked to change the way they played the game.

There have been plenty of players who realize dang I need to learn fire, even if it's mid-way through or later on in the game, truly plenty of players, some fail to do so and we always talk about those players (it's akin to learning to drive a stick shift or learn how to read a map for Amazing Race because it's treated as a basic skill). There's often a point in the game where multiple players start sitting down and doing it once they realized yeah it might/is going to come down to this. Rizo did reflect, he said so himself, he literally said (because I have it recorded I'm able to easily rewind). Word for word "I told myself after Season 49 I don't want to find myself in this spot again, cuz I worked too hard to lose that. I told everybody don't underestimate the man the myth....(snipped). I feel so good about my game and that's what's eating me alive right now...(snip)." He already had the mindset he wasn't going to go out like he did in his first season but did not truly think it would come down to it, thus why even when he had the time to do it chose not to.

It is like how Eva broke down when she was needing to learn to make fire and same story Joe frustratingly swooped in to help (poor guy really shouldn't play Survivor).

This is about motivation and gameplay. You might have been able to excuse him for his first season although he could have tried then to learn (and should have before going to Survivor every player should) but he knew he went out that way and had loads of time to learn, instead he sat in a hammock, because according to him he never thought he would be there in the position to need to do it.

Go back and rewatch him talk about fire making, go rewatch how he immediately broke down when he realized he didn't know the first thing about it. You have to look at it through a different lens to see it. And also reflect on how the gameplay was across the season. He repeatedly made claims about himself that ultimately couldn't be backed up. This isn't about Rizo as in only talking about him. In general the threads will always talk about players who are like him, look how people are talking about Joe (myself included) or Tiff.

 

[footballmouse]

Some type of memory maze or different mental challenge

They did this a few times, usually later in the season. Jeff would tell a story about the island, the lore of the island, that sort of thing. Then they had to run to stations and answer questions based off of the story. Jeff once said that they do this usually at night and towards the end of the season b/c the player's mind isn't as sharp as it was in the beginning of the season or during the day, which makes the challenge that much harder.

 

[declansdad]

I agree (and her attitude carried onto the jury at the question portion when she snapped out the question comment however valid it was she had loads of attitude when she said it) but I think it was that she saw it was either between her realistically or Aubry at that point and knew she couldn't get further.

It must have been frustrating to know that only her and Aubry were the realistic options when she was playing with 3 other players still who still thought for whatever reason that they had a shot. She knew they didn't and tried to get it to go her way but didn't have the more established connection that Aubry had with the 3 left.

When you kinda do some reflecting the 3 men left, at least in the edit, were absolutely clueless as to the way the end was going to be. Tiff saw it, Aubry saw it but Joe, Rizo and Jonathan did not. So while I think she was more bitter than she needed to be she also was up against pleading her case to players who didn't see far enough into the game that she did and she knew her competitor Aubry also was thinking far enough into the future.

I hesitate to say that if Tiff had been more like Aubry's social game it would have worked better for her but with no alliance members left once Cirie left she had already days ago started going in hard, backpedaling at that point wouldn't have worked, she tried the best she could to talk with Joe, but that was never going to work out.

I think all three men knew that if Tiff was in the final three, she would win. They saw her game play and knew what they were up against. Of the three, Jonathan definitely had a resume he could sell over Aubry. What he didn't foresee is it didn't matter what he said or how he played, some of the jurors had predetermined how they would vote based on who was sitting there,

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think all three men knew that if Tiff was in the final three, she would win. They saw her game play and knew what they were up against. Of the three, Jonathan definitely had a resume he could sell over Aubry. What he didn't foresee is it didn't matter what he said or how he played, some of the jurors had predetermined how they would vote based on who was sitting there,

Hmm agreed, I can see what you're saying about them thinking she would win although I think Rizo truly thought he would win or that he could at least plead his case really well.

It was a tad offputting for me to hear Cirie talk about how "now young women" or something to that effect. I really grew to like Cirie over the years of her playing and especially after seeing her on The Traitors but that was sorta not the way I had hoped she would opt to vote for someone. I don't think she truly voted for Aubry based on that but if it wasn't a consideration then it was probably best left unsaid. I'm rarely for voting for someone just because they check a box.

 

[Disneylover99]

When you kinda do some reflecting the 3 men left, at least in the edit, were absolutely clueless as to the way the end was going to be. Tiff saw it, Aubry saw it but Joe, Rizo and Jonathan did not. So while I think she was more bitter than she needed to be she also was up against pleading her case to players who didn't see far enough into the game that she did and she knew her competitor Aubry also was thinking far enough into the future.

I don’t think Rizzo or Jonathan were clueless. They were adamant that it was going to be the three men going to the final 3 together.

They got Tiffany out first cause they figured she had a good shot at winning the final immunity. They didn’t think Aubrey would end up winning immunity. That messed up their plan.

I think they knew they couldn’t beat the women. But Rizzo and Jonathan knew they had a fighting chance against each other, and of course Joe was just along for the ride.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don’t think Rizzo or Jonathan were clueless. They were adamant that it was going to be the three men going to the final 3 together.

They got Tiffany out first cause they figured she had a good shot at winning the final immunity. They didn’t think Aubrey would end up winning immunity. That messed up their plan.

I think they knew they couldn’t beat the women. But Rizzo and Jonathan knew they had a fighting chance against each other, and of course Joe was just along for the ride.

This might be because of how you view the "clueless" descriptor to what I was saying which is fair.

From what I watched throughout and especially towards the end each man thought they had a good case to win. Joe could point to how he flipped his script from his first season and he had been talking about that in confessionals for a while, Jonathan for how he was behind some power moves and Rizo thinking he had it all in the bag. If you think that they knew they couldn't beat the women then I don't think they would have presented themselves like they did, especially in confessionals.

To your point about being adamant that it was going to be just the three men at the end is proving that point exactly to what I mean by being clueless. They forgot the other players were still playing and this is talking about before it was just Aubry and Tiff left.

To your point about men to the end: it was clueless to pin the hopes of it all that both women left would get out by a struck of one of the three men winning immunity and not once but have it happen twice which is a LOT to ask of the Survivor gods to be in your favor for that. Rizo wasn't going to win an immunity which left it up to Joe and Jonathan had only won one before he won the one that meant he was either voting for Tiff or Aubry. Tiff had already shown she was formidable in challenges over time.

Even if you can say they didn't think Aubry would win that last challenge thus messing up their plans Tiff was like what one puzzle piece away from beating Jonathan? If I want to think about it harder it would be more like bringing up perhaps a gender bias where they assumed any woman was no match for them, final 3 mens only baby which is also clueless.

Clueless in what I'm meaning is they were not thinking enough steps ahead and were not considering other players. They were more focused on themselves for a really long time. It's why Aubry was able to make it far to begin with because people didn't see her as a big enough issue. But as time went on she showed how she needed to get out. And if they had been looking more at the gameplay of other players they would not have let Tiff nor Aubry make it as far as they did.

Meanwhile Tiff and Aubry had been circling each other for a long time, they both at least in editing seemed to realize it would come down to one of them or at least both of them would have a strong enough case (I think they both assumed Cirie would get out before it came down to the last challenge since no one wanted to sit next to her at the end). Aubry didn't want Rizo in the mix to take votes away from her because she knew he had a strong sympathy story too similar to hers. But Joe, Rizo and Jonathan? They just sat back thinking the game was going to be between them completely missing what was actually going on. AKA clueless.

Joe, he seemed like he really did think he had a shot in a way because of how he was defending himself strongly but I am hoping he really didn't think he was like a post exit interview with him saying "nah I wasn't going to win" would make me feel better lol.

It is true however that Tiff was saved by herself winning the immunity thus sending Cirie home so I'll put that in there but even that showed that they weren't paying attention to Tiff who solved that puzzle while the others spent time trying to help each other but I'm really talking about moves throughout the season. None of the men left were thinking far enough ahead and Aubry and Tiff were, and to the original comment about Tiff's behavior in that respect I can get how Tiff must have felt.

 

[Disneylover99]

To your point about being adamant that it was going to be just the three men at the end is proving that point exactly to what I mean by being clueless. They forgot the other players were still playing and this is talking about before it was just Aubry and Tiff left.

I don’t think they forgot about other players. They took out Cirie, Rick and Ozzy right before Tiffany. They knew they were the biggest threats in the game……way bigger than Aubry and Tiffany at that point.

Even if you can say they didn't think Aubry would win that last challenge thus messing up their plans Tiff was like what one puzzle piece away from beating Jonathan? If I want to think about it harder it would be more like bringing up perhaps a gender bias where they assumed any woman was no match for them, final 3 mens only baby which is also clueless.

I don’t think that’s necessary.
It’s not that deep. lol.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don’t think they forgot about other players. They took out Cirie, Rick and Ozzy right before Tiffany. They knew they were the biggest threats in the game……way bigger than Aubry and Tiffany at that point.

The ones you mentioned were the obvious ones that everyone knew about. I'm talking about looking far forward to the end goal not just seeing how you can present your story to the jury which was what they were focused on because they just assumed they would be at the end.

You can't fall back on notoriety of players. Like literally Aubry's entire story to the jury was how she learned to play her game differently, according to you they just assumed she'd lose in the immunity challenge which reflects their short-sightedness.

My comments were that both Aubry and Tiff were much more aware of the threat they both had to each other in contrast to how the three left acted at least in the edits throughout the show. The other three were more cart before the horse for too long into the game. The cart being making it to the end without having players that could win more than you in the end the horse being jury management.

I don’t think that’s necessary.
It’s not that deep. lol.

You're in the wrong thread then, that's all we do here is dissect it all It's why the threads exist so we can pass the time talking about strangers playing a game that's been on for 25 years in more detail and thought process than is ever necessary But I'm sure we'll be talking away again for the next season

 

[declansdad]

Hmm agreed, I can see what you're saying about them thinking she would win although I think Rizo truly thought he would win or that he could at least plead his case really well.

It was a tad offputting for me to hear Cirie talk about how "now young women" or something to that effect. I really grew to like Cirie over the years of her playing and especially after seeing her on The Traitors but that was sorta not the way I had hoped she would opt to vote for someone. I don't think she truly voted for Aubry based on that but if it wasn't a consideration then it was probably best left unsaid. I'm rarely for voting for someone just because they check a box.

Funny, I was never a Cirie fan and her stint on Traitors made it even worse.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Funny, I was never a Cirie fan and her stint on Traitors made it even worse.

I could totally see that lol. I think her gameplay on the Traitors was able to shine a different way even though she's using a lot of the same techniques the game was very different. I can see however how it could make someone even more offput by her, the way the very end went down with having the option to split the pot but her going after it all can turn you off, it didn't for me but I can see that viewpoint.

 

[Magical2017]

They did this a few times, usually later in the season. Jeff would tell a story about the island, the lore of the island, that sort of thing. Then they had to run to stations and answer questions based off of the story. Jeff once said that they do this usually at night and towards the end of the season b/c the player's mind isn't as sharp as it was in the beginning of the season or during the day, which makes the challenge that much harder.

Oh, I guess I forgot about that.

I also liked season 3 of Traitors Canada. They had some options to choose what they did in the mission towards the end of the season. One had math, one was memorizing where the photos were on the wall, one was memorizing where people sat or how they voted, etc. I know it's a different show, but some of the missions became stale across shows (UK and US did similar missions each season), just like some of the Survivor challenges get boring to watch.