sure wish parents would watch their kids

[LSUmiss]

well, My research says I'm doing a great job with my kids. We have a strong family bond and do everything as a family. How are you doing with yours? Are they kicking and screaming in the floor of a mall? Climbing over the booths in a restaurant?

With all due respect, that’s not how research works. That’s called anecdotal “evidence”.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think the thing is set expectations and follow through with any consequences. I get that some kids may never have ridden a bus. Tell the kids "you sit down on the bus and be quiet" If kids ride the bus to school, they aren't allowed to wrestle!

And some parents really do ruin things for everyone: A local brewery has a great outdoor space. They filled in under the tables with pea-gravel. So families would come to the brewery and let kids run amok. And pea-gravel is fun to throw! The brewery had enough, posted a sign that reads "children must sit at tables with their parents". That didn't work so now they have "no children after 7pm".

Places where the main purpose is alcohol generally split into "family enough atmosphere" and "not family friendly." There's def. some places around me (mostly wineries) where there's games to play and even thought they are largely aimed at adults playing those games they have it family friendly enough. And then there are places that are just not suited for kids.

At least around here I wouldn't assume a brewery or winery (or distillery if that's also there) is immediately appropriate for kids unless it states otherwise. But that also I think comes down to a business decision the establishment has to make when marketing their place. Throwing pea gravel isn't tied to a specific time and I assume they are also open during the day during the weekend.

Def. don't think throwing anything is what you should be doing but I would have hoped the brewery made it clear enough at least if there's activities available for kids or if they even want kids. Like we have a winery about 10 or so minutes away that clearly states "Family Owned, Family Friendly" (that's one that has a lot of games to play especially great during fall time with pumpkins). On the other hand another winery located 10 mins away from me strictly posts on their website "21+ venue" They do at times have family friendly festivals (upcoming one is in April for Easter although there is a separate Adult Egg Hunt festival too) but those are specific times you can bring kids and the rest of the year is a resounding no kids allowed.

Even a bar and grill we have after about 6 or 7pm is 21 and up, they don't kick you out if you're there already but as a patron you would need to recognize the environment can shift.

On the other hand I hear you with your basic premise basically "this is why we can't have nice things"

 

[BrianL]

I agree and I'm also childless. I see a lot of childless people call kids brats or that they're misbehaving when all they're doing is......talking louder than usual and being excited. Obviously wrestling on a public bus is a different circumstance but a kid being a kid is not bad behavior.

I'm a bit late to this one, but it's entertianing. I also have no kids (and am quite okay with that). I do know others who just really hate kids and their "kid ways." You see it on the Dis all the time when people complain about kid's sports groups being loud or whatever. They're kids at Disneyworld for crying out loud! What are they supposed to do? Sit in stoic silence and reflect on the esistential meaning of the Ghost Host's death? It's weird to me, that kids bing kids in an appropriate place bothers people. Okay, sure, kids running around a 5-star fine dining restaurant yelling and screaming would be inappropriate and injurious to the experience, but at Chef Mickey's? Ehhhh, whatever - get over it. I do see teh bus thing as somewhat inappropriate mostly for safety reasons. The driver honestly should have said something, at least a reminder that all passengers should remain seated. Still, siblings being rambunctious with each other in general isn't that big of a deal.

 

[sam_gordon]

We stopped spanking when we had our second child. It was rare anyway, but there was something about her that we just knew that there was no way we could spank and have her turn out "fine". Certainly, no way we would ever have a good relationship with her.

It bothers me so much to hear people say "every kid needs to be spanked/whooped/corporal punished in order to be good". It's absolutely untrue and can be doing so much damage to so many kids.

Personally, I now think that it's always wrong. Do some kids turn out "fine"? Yes. But I don't think turning out fine is the measure of whether something is right or wrong. The entire purpose of why it works with some kids is that it makes them fear physical pain if they do something wrong. (I would much rather my kids do what I ask because they respect me and because they understand that's the right thing to do instead of just following the rules so they don't get hit.) I also have never in my life seen an adult spank a child who wasn't angry or annoyed. So, it's also teaching that if you're upset that someone has not done what you want them to that you can (and should) hit them.

I am a very logical person, so this was my conclusion once I looked at spanking objectively. There is absolutely no situation in which it would be appropriate for my husband or my parents to hit me in order to teach me a lesson or get me to obey a rule. So, to me, if it's wrong for an adult to ever hit another adult for those reasons, it simply doesn't make any sense why it would be appropriate to hit a child.

I totally respect that position. When I spanked my kids (think I only had to spank the older one once and the middle twice), it was before they learned respect and what the right thing to do is. You make it sound like parents spank kids for every rule infraction. I can't speak for any one else, but that's not the case with us. It was the "nuclear" option... when other punishments either weren't working or would take too long to sink in.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I'm a bit late to this one, but it's entertianing. I also have no kids (and am quite okay with that). I do know others who just really hate kids and their "kid ways." You see it on the Dis all the time when people complain about kid's sports groups being loud or whatever. They're kids at Disneyworld for crying out loud! What are they supposed to do? Sit in stoic silence and reflect on the esistential meaning of the Ghost Host's death? It's weird to me, that kids bing kids in an appropriate place bothers people. Okay, sure, kids running around a 5-star fine dining restaurant yelling and screaming would be inappropriate and injurious to the experience, but at Chef Mickey's? Ehhhh, whatever - get over it. I do see teh bus thing as somewhat inappropriate mostly for safety reasons. The driver honestly should have said something, at least a reminder that all passengers should remain seated. Still, siblings being rambunctious with each other in general isn't that big of a deal.

Right. I'm not a huge kid person but I understand that when I go to theme parks (not just Disney but Universal too), that kids are going to be there and are going to act like kids. Kids wresting on a bus and screaming in fancier restaurants and planes is different and in those cases, is not appropriate and the parents should do something about it. I remember being in line for Spaceship Earth and a little girl in front of me (she was 4-5? bad with ages) was excited that it was her birthday and was telling everyone she came across. I overheard the group behind me complaining about it and I was like......? It's her birthday AND she's at Disney. I would be excited too.

 

[dez1978]

This is a prime example of the disconnect. Some people believe a "spank" or a "swat" is ok, but "hitting" is not. Others feel anytime you strike a child (regardless of strength and location) is wrong. I'm personally in the former group.

BUT, just because one parent used corporal punishment on one child and they turned out "fine" doesn't mean it's needed on every child. On the flip side, just because a different parent DIDN'T use corporal punishment on a different child and they turned out "fine" doesn't mean that's the only solution either. When will people realize that all kids (even in a single family) are different and react to "punishment" in different ways?

So much this. Especially if one (or more) of your children are neurodivergent. My 11 yr old has ADHD, and honestly most of the time punishment of any sort doesn't work for him. Especially when it comes to school. Taking things away from him does not encourage better behavior. He just figures he's already lost whatever it is for the day, so why put in the effort for the rest of the day. I don't think he does this purposely, it's more subconsciously. But if you give him goals to work towards or earn, he does well. As he gets older, consequences work more as long as they relate to the action he is in trouble for. My 8 yr old on the other hand, he gets upset if you even raise your voice so he doesn't get in trouble much to begin with.

I grew up having to get my own switch off a tree when I was in big trouble. I don't think it affected my relationship with my parents or made me feel unloved or anything, but I would never do that to my kids. They have upon occasion gotten a swat on the butt, but it hurt their feelings more than their butt. Now that they are older, I just take away Youtube and that is apparently the end of the world and makes me the worst mom ever. They would rather be spanked lol

 

[BrianL]

Right. I'm not a huge kid person but I understand that when I go to theme parks (not just Disney but Universal too), that kids are going to be there and are going to act like kids. Kids wresting on a bus and screaming in fancier restaurants and planes is different and in those cases, is not appropriate and the parents should do something about it. I remember being in line for Spaceship Earth and a little girl in front of me (she was 4-5? bad with ages) was excited that it was her birthday and was telling everyone she came across. I overheard the group behind me complaining about it and I was like......? It's her birthday AND she's at Disney. I would be excited too.

Speaking of parenting fails, I was in line for Spaceship Earth once and this baby being held by his mother kept sucking on the rail! 😱 The mom just never seemed to catch it, but she would move and pull the baby away with her, but then he'd get right back at it. Gross, but also funny. The kid will probably be immune to everything!

 

[dez1978]

I see a lot of childless people call kids brats

lol, I call my own kids brats. Are we not supposed to do that? Sometimes its a term of endearment, other times not so much.

 

[QueenIsabella]

I totally respect that position. When I spanked my kids (think I only had to spank the older one once and the middle twice), it was before they learned respect and what the right thing to do is. You make it sound like parents spank kids for every rule infraction. I can't speak for any one else, but that's not the case with us. It was the "nuclear" option... when other punishments either weren't working or would take too long to sink in.

This. I think I spanked each of my kids once. That was it. Because after you've done it once, they know that, if you say that's the next step, the KNOW that you mean it. It was not my first go-to, but if my kids were misbehaving, they have to know that the parent is serious.

I'm also guilty of slapping a hand away from a sharp knife, or maybe yanking an arm, hard, to keep a kid from running into traffic. If that makes me a lousy mom, so be it--I'll own it.

 

[SandyinMonterey]

I saw this today and remembered this post and I to say what I saw. I stopped at a donut place taking my daughter to school today. It was more crowded than usual. I parked next to an SUV, engine still running, light on. No parent in the car, no one else except a little boy. Five maybe six years old. He was out of his seat in the drivers seat. Looking at things, he may have pushed a button or two. We were not parked near store at all. Can't believe that kid was left in a running car by himself.

 

[Smugpugmug]

lol, I call my own kids brats. Are we not supposed to do that? Sometimes its a term of endearment, other times not so much.

LOL my mom has probably called my sister and I a brat at some point in our childhoods.

 

[dez1978]

I saw this today and remembered this post and I to say what I saw. I stopped at a donut place taking my daughter to school today. It was more crowded than usual. I parked next to an SUV, engine still running, light on. No parent in the car, no one else except a little boy. Five maybe six years old. He was out of his seat in the drivers seat. Looking at things, he may have pushed a button or two. We were not parked near store at all. Can't believe that kid was left in a running car by himself.

Eh, I've done that. Left the car running, emergency brake on, doors locked to run inside to pay for gas or pick up pizza. If I can see my car thru the window of the business and keep an eye on it the whole time I don't think it's a big deal. But I've always been so strict about car seats and seatbelts, that I don't think it ever would have occured to them to unbuckle and climb around the car like that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Eh, I've done that. Left the car running, emergency brake on, doors locked to run inside to pay for gas or pick up pizza. If I can see my car thru the window of the business and keep an eye on it the whole time I don't think it's a big deal. But I've always been so strict about car seats and seatbelts, that I don't think it ever would have occured to them to unbuckle and climb around the car like that.

My mind goes immediately to a 2015 car abduction in my area where the parents went to a bank parking lot to discuss buying a car. They left their 5 month old in the car in their car seat with it running. The parents were talking to the person about the car, a stranger approached, got into the car and drove off. Luckily a law enacted due to a local case allowed police the ability to track a cell phone (without much pushback from the carrier) that had been left in the car to find its location within an hour.

 

[sam_gordon]

Eh, I've done that. Left the car running, emergency brake on, doors locked to run inside to pay for gas or pick up pizza. If I can see my car thru the window of the business and keep an eye on it the whole time I don't think it's a big deal. But I've always been so strict about car seats and seatbelts, that I don't think it ever would have occured to them to unbuckle and climb around the car like that.

I've also done that once or twice, but it makes me EXTREMELY nervous. I don't think I've ever left the car running though. I'm the paranoid type who would be concerned about them accidently shifting into reverse or drive. Yes, I know you can't shift unless you press the break. I still wouldn't chance it.

 

[tzolkin]

I totally respect that position. When I spanked my kids (think I only had to spank the older one once and the middle twice), it was before they learned respect and what the right thing to do is. You make it sound like parents spank kids for every rule infraction. I can't speak for any one else, but that's not the case with us. It was the "nuclear" option... when other punishments either weren't working or would take too long to sink in.

I think you’re being generous based on your limited spanking if your kids (so you want to hope that’s how others are also using it). In my experience, most people who advocate for “all kids need a butt-whooping” are spanking their kids a lot more than once or twice in their lifetime. Just because you chose to use corporal punishment very sparingly does not make it the norm. I have seen relatives, friends, and strangers smack their kids all the time, typically over very minor infractions like being annoying, not sitting up straight, not paying attention, talking back, etc.

Many parents who recommend spanking think it’s a normal go-to response for anything their kid does wrong. Heck, there are even multiple parenting books and methods that advocate regularly smacking babies and toddlers starting at 6-12 months to teach and correct, so there are certainly people who think frequent spanking is fine.

Im sure you can find plenty of statistics, but here’s an excerpt from a small study I just saw about how often kids are spanked based on study participants who used audio to monitor frequency:
“The rate of corporal punishment, such as spanking and slapping, exceeded estimates found in other studies that relied on parents reporting their behavior. While other studies discovered that American parents of 2-year-olds typically reported they spanked or slapped their child 18 times a year, Holden's research based on the audiotapes discovered such behavior occurred 18 times a week.”
Even if the self-reported figures were accurate, that’s still once or twice per month, not once or twice in a lifetime like you mentioned.
https://consumer.healthday.com/kids...be-more-common-than-parents-admit-687077.html

ETA: I’m definitely not doubting anyone in this thread about how often they spanked their kids. Just that I think frequent spanking is much more common than once or twice as a last resort for something serious.

 

[dez1978]

My mind goes immediately to a 2015 car abduction in my area where the parents went to a bank parking lot to discuss buying a car. They left their 5 month old in the car in their car seat with it running. The parents were talking to the person about the car, a stranger approached, got into the car and drove off. Luckily a law enacted due to a local case allowed police the ability to track a cell phone (without much pushback from the carrier) that had been left in the car to find its location within an hour.

I would never leave them for that long. I'm talking about 2-3 mins tops, while watching the car the whole time. Like running in to Casey's or Little Ceaser's to pick up pizza and I'm parked right in front of the building.

I've also done that once or twice, but it makes me EXTREMELY nervous. I don't think I've ever left the car running though. I'm the paranoid type who would be concerned about them accidently shifting into reverse or drive. Yes, I know you can't shift unless you press the break. I still wouldn't chance it.

When I was little in the early 80s we were at the laundromat and my mom let me go play in the parking lot in true Gen X fashion, and I got in her truck which was a 5 speed and managed to get in in neutral and it started rolling backwards. Some random person opened the door and jumped in to hit the brake. And thats why I always use the parking brake if I've left it running with them in the car. I usually leave it running because it's never been the perfect temp where someone wouldn't say "OMG she left her kids in a hot locked car!" or "OMG they were in a car with no heat and its freezing!" And honestly, I worry far more about someone doing that than anything bad actually happening to them. We are in a pretty quiet town and no one is going to break into my car in the 2 mins i'm inside grabbing pizza in a busy well lit parking lot directly in front where it would be seen by all the cameras and every one else around since they'd have to bust a window to do it, it would be pretty obvious. Also if the key fob is not inside my car it will not shift out of park.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I would never leave them for that long. I'm talking about 2-3 mins tops, while watching the car the whole time. Like running in to Casey's or Little Ceaser's to pick up pizza and I'm parked right in front of the building.

I don't think I described it well enough.

This wasn't a long time, this was exactly in the timeframe you mentioned. This wasn't them going inside the bank. This was them in the parking lot standing by their vehicle discussing with another person about purchasing a vehicle. They were attempting to meet in a safe place (well a well populated, very busy area). They weren't discussing a car loan with people inside the bank.

Your description of what you do jogged my memory because I'm sure they were thinking it's NBD the car is running with their baby, they are in a populated area, they are standing by their vehicle, what could happen. Well their car was stolen with their baby inside. That's what happened. For once not having your cell phone on you saved time.

 

[fly girl]

lol, I call my own kids brats. Are we not supposed to do that? Sometimes its a term of endearment, other times not so much.

If you haven’t called or thought your kid was acting like a brat then you haven’t been an active parent.

Especially teenagers. Good gravy, the biggest brats out there! 😜😂

 

[dez1978]

I don't think I described it well enough.

This wasn't a long time, this was exactly in the timeframe you mentioned. This wasn't them going inside the bank. This was them in the parking lot standing by their vehicle discussing with another person about purchasing a vehicle. They were attempting to meet in a safe place (well a well populated, very busy area). They weren't discussing a car loan with people inside the bank.

Your description of what you do jogged my memory because I'm sure they were thinking it's NBD the car is running with their baby, they are in a populated area, they are standing by their vehicle, what could happen. Well their car was stolen with their baby inside. That's what happened. For once not having your cell phone on you saved time.

I can appreciate the seriousness of what you are saying. But what is the likelihood that someone is going to bust a window and draw attention to themselves like that when trying to steal a car in a well lit area where they are bound to be seen. That is much more obvious than someone just opening an unlocked door and getting in. And again, if the key is in my pocket, they can't get the car out of park.

Did the person who stole their car have a gun pointed at them or something? Because I'm sorry, if I am standing right next to my car and my baby is inside you're going to have to kill me to take that car. And that is going to cause a scene and that is the last thing most theives want. Could it happen? Sure. If I was in an area where I thought it might happen, I wouldn't take the chance. But I don't live somewhere where its likely to happen.

 

[Colleen27]

I saw this today and remembered this post and I to say what I saw. I stopped at a donut place taking my daughter to school today. It was more crowded than usual. I parked next to an SUV, engine still running, light on. No parent in the car, no one else except a little boy. Five maybe six years old. He was out of his seat in the drivers seat. Looking at things, he may have pushed a button or two. We were not parked near store at all. Can't believe that kid was left in a running car by himself.

Depending on the age and model of the SUV, this might be less risky than you think. I've got a new car (22) with the RFID key, and if I leave it running while I go in somewhere with the key in my pocket, it basically goes in to the same operational mode as when I use the remote start. The engine is running, but if the key isn't detected inside, you can't put it in gear. It is kind of a neat feature on cold mornings, and one that I never would have discovered if DH hadn't left the car running to heat up while he ran in to the gas station for coffee.

I still don't think I'd have left my kid in the car, running or otherwise, at that age - at 5 or 6, my middle child probably would have been okay as long as I left her with a book or something, but the oldest and youngest would both have been out of that car in a flash if something caught their attention or they'd have completely reprogramed my radio stations or hit the SOS button on the OnStar - but it is nice to know that no one can just hop in and drive off if I do leave it running for the heater.