Summer Incentives

[Genie+]

Wow. Great price for direct

We bought our first contract (resale Poly at 150/pt) in December. Thought I’d never buy direct but these prices were too good to pass up. Bought a 150 pt Grand Floridian contract last week for 28,149.15 after closing costs and will do the magical beginnings to get that price down another 3300. We spread the payments over 60 days and my guide confirmed twice that we don’t pay taxes on the 3300 for what it is worth. We may end up selling the Poly contract in a couple years and just keep the direct one.

Sure is!

We were another one who thought we’d never buy direct. We were looking for Poly or VGF resale when this offer came up. Those seemed the best value to us between contract life, dues and home priority. To get direct at a similar cost, matching our existing UY, payments spread over 3 months, points loaded in hours… very grateful none of my resale offers were taken. And I never was able to find a resale VGF Sept UY accepted for $160 or less. Direct was much less work and now we have blue card too.

 

[ML_LovesDisney]

Sure is!

We were another one who thought we’d never buy direct. We were looking for Poly or VGF resale when this offer came up. Those seemed the best value to us between contract life, dues and home priority. To get direct at a similar cost, matching our existing UY, payments spread over 3 months, points loaded in hours… very grateful none of my resale offers were taken. And I never was able to find a resale VGF Sept UY accepted for $160 or less. Direct was much less work and now we have blue card too.

Agreed, we just added on another RIV contract. RIV resale contracts are not even that low for the restrictions they are stuck with. Almost all of the listings also say "no negotiating, full price only". No thanks!

 

[Sandisw]

Agreed, we just added on another RIV contract. RIV resale contracts are not even that low for the restrictions they are stuck with. Almost all of the listings also say "no negotiating, full price only". No thanks!

It’s what we found too. And honestly, as a RIV owner, I would not sell that low either.

I am actually glad that the sellers rejected my offers in March!!

 

[CarolynFH]

Nothing in particular. There's clarity from CRA that income from accommodation sharing (e.g. AirBnB) is rental income, which needs to be claimed but can also have rental expenses deducted against it... but much like the US treatment Magical Beginnings is more of a reduction in cost basis than actual "rental income."

Granted Disney tends to err on the side of caution for these things, so DVD might not want to risk IRS saying a tax withholding should apply to the MB payment for foreigners.

...but I digress.

Yes, just now made me wonder whether FIRPTA would apply. Could be that DVD simply didn’t want to worry about foreign tax law at all.

 

[grahf1234]

A little lost with the stacking of all these incentives.
If someone were to buy 200 points at VGF, brand new member, what I gather so far is they’d qualify for the following:
1. Summer discount: $4,170
2. Welcome home inventive: $1,000
3. Dream it forward with referral: $500
4. Magical beginnings buyback if UY applicable and buyer wants it: $4,400

Does that look about right?

What about the 10 free points? Is that separate from #1 or is that already built into it?

 

[WDWfantasy]

A little lost with the stacking of all these incentives.
If someone were to buy 200 points at VGF, brand new member, what I gather so far is they’d qualify for the following:
1. Summer discount: $4,170
2. Welcome home inventive: $1,000
3. Dream it forward with referral: $500
4. Magical beginnings buyback if UY applicable and buyer wants it: $4,400

Does that look about right?

What about the 10 free points? Is that separate from #1 or is that already built into it?

I think you’ve got it all included! The free 10 points is built into #1. The net cost per point after all of the incentives comes to $166.65 per point

 

[grahf1234]

I think you’ve got it all included! The free 10 points is built into #1. The net cost per point after all of the incentives comes to $166.65 per point

Thanks!

 

[misskari]

Hello! I am hoping some of you super-smart-people can check my math for me and make sure I have it right and am not forgetting anything.

Current - 200 SSR resale contract from 2013 grandfathered into benefits.

Want: 150 points DLH (we'll want a 2BR every 2-3 years to bring the family), plus one solo trip every two years (about 70 points usage). We want these points for DL, so not opposed to buying resale, but I feel we'd need the 11-month booking window to snag a 2 BR, right?

$34,500 for 150 points
- $750 military discount
- $1,150 5 points for life
-$1,800 developer credit

= $30,800 total contract = $205 pp

- $616 2% cash back from USAA card (we have the reg Disney Visa with 1% cashback, and the benefit would be 0%
interest for 6 months, right? Not sure which card I want to go with.

- $3,300 Magical beginnings

= $26,884 total contact = $179 pp

Thanks to the helpful tips here, considering waiving the title insurance (is there a downside?)
Closing would be about $500? (I honestly have no idea).

QUESTIONS:
1) Is my math right?
2) Am I forgetting any discount? (as I understand it, the welcome home won't apply to DLH)
3) Should we start talking to our guide now, to get prices down, and then plan on making an offer within 10 days of
9/11 a good idea?
4) Do you think DLH will be on the resale market for less than $179 pp? (This is what's driving my brain crazy)

Thanks so much for any help with this!

 

[Sandisw]

Hello! I am hoping some of you super-smart-people can check my math for me and make sure I have it right and am not forgetting anything.

Current - 200 SSR resale contract from 2013 grandfathered into benefits.

Want: 150 points DLH (we'll want a 2BR every 2-3 years to bring the family), plus one solo trip every two years (about 70 points usage). We want these points for DL, so not opposed to buying resale, but I feel we'd need the 11-month booking window to snag a 2 BR, right?

$34,500 for 150 points
- $750 military discount
- $1,150 5 points for life
-$1,800 developer credit

= $30,800 total contract = $205 pp

- $616 2% cash back from USAA card (we have the reg Disney Visa with 1% cashback, and the benefit would be 0%
interest for 6 months, right? Not sure which card I want to go with.

- $3,300 Magical beginnings

= $26,884 total contact = $179 pp

Thanks to the helpful tips here, considering waiving the title insurance (is there a downside?)
Closing would be about $500? (I honestly have no idea).

QUESTIONS:
1) Is my math right?
2) Am I forgetting any discount? (as I understand it, the welcome home won't apply to DLH)
3) Should we start talking to our guide now, to get prices down, and then plan on making an offer within 10 days of
9/11 a good idea?
4) Do you think DLH will be on the resale market for less than $179 pp? (This is what's driving my brain crazy)

Thanks so much for any help with this!

It looks right to me. TBH, it’s very possible that we will see VDH lower than that due to restrictions but you just never know.

But, IMO, the flexibility of having direct points for $179 thst will be good everywhere will be worth it.

 

[Genie+]

4) Do you think DLH will be on the resale market for less than $179 pp? (This is what's driving my brain crazy)

It might but I’d expect the first few years to have very little resale available. Trying to match UY and desired # of points could be a challenge. Also with Disney Forward over the next decade it’s worth considering being able to use our points there (direct) or not (resale).

Look at RIV, were in the 5th year of sales and there’s still not that many resale contracts available though it has been picked up quite a bit the last year.

 

[DanCali]

4) Do you think DLH will be on the resale market for less than $179 pp? (This is what's driving my brain crazy)

It may take a few years to have resale supply, but the restrictions will eventually get priced in. It's a different product from the direct product.

Ask yourself if you would you pay $179 for a contract that can only be used at one resort if you could get the unrestricted product for the same price or even 10% or 20% more? How low would it need to go for you to prefer restricted resale over unrestricted direct?

 

[Cfabar1]

I think VDH is full of unknowns... there's only one other DL DVC property, and the price is nowhere near $179, and it has fewer years left. The TOT tax may skew things, but I think DL DVC will continue to be a niche and special item for a little while. I'm optimistic that it will hold value for some time.

 

[Sandisw]

I think VDH is full of unknowns... there's only one other DL DVC property, and the price is nowhere near $179, and it has fewer years left. The TOT tax may skew things, but I think DL DVC will continue to be a niche and special item for a little while. I'm optimistic that it will hold value for some time.

One thing different for VDH that doesn’t exist for RIV is that people who buy resale RIV also have a lot of options to choose from at WDW to buy as well, so they can have the best of all worlds…access to RIV but also to other WDW resorts.

Only thing a VDH owner can buy to get them DL is VGC….which is quite high and many times, in short supply on the resale market.

I just wonder if that will play a role in VDH resale not holding as high as VGC has. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds in a few years.

 

[Mikey15]

It may take a few years to have resale supply, but the restrictions will eventually get priced in. It's a different product from the direct product.

Ask yourself if you would you pay $179 for a contract that can only be used at one resort if you could get the unrestricted product for the same price or even 10% or 20% more? How low would it need to go for you to prefer restricted resale over unrestricted direct?

My take on Riv’s resale relatively holding so far despite restrictions is:
-The restrictions don’t directly impact the direct buyers, so they’re not feeling any pain so to speak

-Relatively low resale supply, as the people who just bought it and can book 11mo Spaceship Earth / fireworks view “standard” Studios or 7mo sleep around at other resorts don’t perceive a disadvantage

-The listings that do happen are partly buoyed by low supply, and also by currently having the longest expiry at WDW. If you want to have a home resort near Epcot for F&W or whatever, people can cross-shop resale at BWV or BCV and see Riv gets a lot more than 18 years longevity for not much more

-Finally, but crucially, I think the restrictions cut both ways. Because any new (& in the last 4 years) resale buyer of the other resorts can’t use those points to book at Riv at all, there’s always going to be people seeking points that will let them stay there, either in addition to or instead of other resale contracts

I want to say VDH shares many of these traits that could keep resale from dropping like a rock. Yes, eventual resale points are restricted to VDH only. So? VGC demand & booking shows there’s not a lot of rooms available for the interest in staying at DLR. Many existing DVC owners would be interested in VDH resale at the right price, just to visit DLR, which they don’t get at 7mo from VGC. In other words, if the restricted resort is sufficiently desirable, restricting people from transferring their SAPs in means the resale points will be useful & desirable, and not just for the home resort booking window either.

 

[tidefan]

My take on Riv’s resale relatively holding so far despite restrictions is:
-The restrictions don’t directly impact the direct buyers, so they’re not feeling any pain so to speak

-Relatively low resale supply, as the people who just bought it and can book 11mo Spaceship Earth / fireworks view “standard” Studios or 7mo sleep around at other resorts don’t perceive a disadvantage

-The listings that do happen are partly buoyed by low supply, and also by currently having the longest expiry at WDW. If you want to have a home resort near Epcot for F&W or whatever, people can cross-shop resale at BWV or BCV and see Riv gets a lot more than 18 years longevity for not much more

-Finally, but crucially, I think the restrictions cut both ways. Because any new (& in the last 4 years) resale buyer of the other resorts can’t use those points to book at Riv at all, there’s always going to be people seeking points that will let them stay there, either in addition to or instead of other resale contracts

I want to say VDH shares many of these traits that could keep resale from dropping like a rock. Yes, eventual resale points are restricted to VDH only. So? VGC demand & booking shows there’s not a lot of rooms available for the interest in staying at DLR. Many existing DVC owners would be interested in VDH resale at the right price, just to visit DLR, which they don’t get at 7mo from VGC. In other words, if the restricted resort is sufficiently desirable, restricting people from transferring their SAPs in means the resale points will be useful & desirable, and not just for the home resort booking window either.

I think that VDH and RIV are two completely different animals.

RIV is competing with all of the other non-restricted WDW resorts. Why would anyone want to buy RIV resale unless they absolutely 100% are sure that they only want to use points there. And to that end, you never know what may happen in the future. For instance, we bought VGF1 "knowing" that we would only 100% use our points there, however, DVD flipped the script and added the hotel rooms to the association, making our ownership there much more complicated to book (as we only like the original building). We actually thought about selling those points, except for...

When Aulani came on the scene, that has been a game-changer, for at least us. We have been on 6 "once-in-a-lifetime" trips to Hawaii, mainly due to having points that we can use at Aulani (and the factor of Southwest starting to fly to Hawaii...). If I purchase RIV resale, then I am shut out of using my points at Aulani, or anywhere else. I have zero flexibility. I have to book RIV.

VDH on the other hand is unique in that it is the only game in town (since VGC is so hard to get into), so if you want to stay on property, this is what you have. That said, it has a different competition than the WDW resorts in that off-site is so much more convenient than at WDW. Before the details came out for VDH, we were pretty sure that we would be in for a 50 point add on to get a studio for 4ish nights every 3 years. However, when they announced the dues and the TAT, those plans went out the window. We were there last month and stayed at the Element Anaheim, which was very nice, had a kitchenette, free breakfast, and a 12-minute walk to DL - all for under $200 per night. You just don't have that offsite in Orlando. It actually made us reassess our plans. Not only are we not buying VDH, we don't plan to use any of our points to stay there as we feel that it is not a great use of points (full clarification - that is how we feel, fully understand that there can be differing opinions on that and that is 100% OK!) as we for a 4 night studio stay would have around a $200 bill when we left. For us, we'll keep our points for WDW, Aulani, VB, and HHI use and just stay offsite in Anaheim. YMMV.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I also think that not having access to Aulani is going to be what hurts VDH resale. If I were on the West Coast and looking to buy in, I would definitely also want access to Aulani (since it is much easier to access from the West Coast). For direct buyers, of course that's not an issue, but for resale, I think it's going to be a bigger issue.

 

[DanCali]

I think VDH is full of unknowns... there's only one other DL DVC property, and the price is nowhere near $179, and it has fewer years left. The TOT tax may skew things, but I think DL DVC will continue to be a niche and special item for a little while. I'm optimistic that it will hold value for some time.

I think it also depends on how long DVD will continue to sell VDH direct. If resale will compete with direct for a few years then a resale buyer will need to think how much more they are willing to pay for a fully unrestricted direct product versus a very restricted product.

With direct prices for 150pts+ in the $170s with incentives, and assuming they stay in that range for a while, would you buy VDH resale for $150? for $140? for $120? for $100? Almost everyone has their price at which resale might be preferred. I suspect quite a few buyers would be willing to pay 30% or 40% more for the direct unrestricted product, so resale might start to get interesting to those buyers only below $130, perhaps even lower.

Of course it may never get there if other buyers are willing to pay $160 for a restricted product over ~$175 for the direct DVC product. But those restrictions are now a lot more than just Blue Card, Member Lounges, and Moonlight Magic stuff. There may be a good reasons to pay substantially more per point for a 50-75 point contract because the direct prices for those don't have incentives. And after it's sold out then it's a free market and anything can happen, like with VGC. But I believe that as long as there is competition with the direct unrestricted product, resale with those restrictions can be a tough sell.

 

[take36]

I think VDH is full of unknowns... there's only one other DL DVC property, and the price is nowhere near $179, and it has fewer years left. The TOT tax may skew things, but I think DL DVC will continue to be a niche and special item for a little while. I'm optimistic that it will hold value for some time.

VDH also has the distinction of having the "most upside" resort. If Disney Forward happens, that puts VDH in the "parks" and making VDH owners absolute geniuses (and rich! jk).

 

[Cfabar1]

VDH also has the distinction of having the "most upside" resort. If Disney Forward happens, that puts VDH in the "parks" and making VDH owners absolute geniuses (and rich! jk).

exactly. and my guess is between now and the 2070s it is extremely likely something along the lines of Disney Forward does happen. It has been a goal of Disney's for years....

 

[kboo]

We bought August UY points back in June and only recently got our cooling towels and water bottle - to be fair, we kept changing the # of points as incentives came and split into 2 contracts, and we got 2 bottles and 2 cooling towels. No, it doesn't offset the additional closing costs, but it keeps things nice and even if we eventually want to leave them to our kids.

 

[DVC4]

Very difficult not to consider an add on contract at VGF. Current owner, staying at VGF and the incentives with MB bringing the price per point to $161 is hard
to pass up. I was considering 100 but the marginal cost per point and total cost between 100 and 150 points is really small.