Strange financial planning advice I overheard today. What do you think?

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This was a conversation I overheard at the Chiropractor’s office today. I am not the most knowledgeable about financial planning, but I have read Dave Ramsey and I have attended a financial planning seminar through work. For me, the advice I heard coming from a financial planner just didn’t sound right. Maybe it’s spot on, but it just sounds like the opposite of everything I’ve ever heard. I’m curious to hear what you guys think. :confused:

The recipient of this advice was a {probably not very well paid} part-time employee of the Chiropractor office. She just finished school, married, no children. Has a 15-year mortgage at 4.2%; their monthly payment is $800. She’s eleven years into the mortgage, just four years away from being mortgage free. She admitted that while she was in school she paid her mortgage late several times, so her credit may or may not be good.

So the financial planner told her that their decision to do a 15-year mortgage was a big mistake, and that she should refinance right now for a 30-year mortgage, take out the maximum amount of equity they are allowed, and bring it straight to him to invest.

He claims that on his own mortgage he refinanced a total of four times in recent years, and went from a $25k mortgage to a $400k mortgage, which has now given him $700k in investment returns. (refinance four times? That’s a lot of closing costs!)

Like I said, everything I heard goes against everything I’ve learned. I asked my husband about it and he said he also thought it was “at best, very poor advice”. After the guy left, I asked her who he was… this is a link to his website: http://www.tebergfund.com/cgi-bin/client_product.cgi?member=1&product_id=2

I told her I was unsure about his advice, that I thought it seemed like a better idea to be mortgage free in four years and then maybe, depending on their overall financial situation, think about investing at that point. But she really likes his idea and is planning to try to talk her husband into it.

Is he just trying to get another client, no matter what the long-term cost to the client, or is there something I’m missing where this really is their best choice?
 
This was a conversation I overheard at the Chiropractor’s office today. I am not the most knowledgeable about financial planning, but I have read Dave Ramsey and I have attended a financial planning seminar through work. For me, the advice I heard coming from a financial planner just didn’t sound right. Maybe it’s spot on, but it just sounds like the opposite of everything I’ve ever heard. I’m curious to hear what you guys think. :confused:

The recipient of this advice was a {probably not very well paid} part-time employee of the Chiropractor office. She just finished school, married, no children. Has a 15-year mortgage at 4.2%; their monthly payment is $800. She’s eleven years into the mortgage, just four years away from being mortgage free. She admitted that while she was in school she paid her mortgage late several times, so her credit may or may not be good.

So the financial planner told her that their decision to do a 15-year mortgage was a big mistake, and that she should refinance right now for a 30-year mortgage, take out the maximum amount of equity they are allowed, and bring it straight to him to invest.

He claims that on his own mortgage he refinanced a total of four times in recent years, and went from a $25k mortgage to a $400k mortgage, which has now given him $700k in investment returns. (refinance four times? That’s a lot of closing costs!)

Like I said, everything I heard goes against everything I’ve learned. I asked my husband about it and he said he also thought it was “at best, very poor advice”. After the guy left, I asked her who he was… this is a link to his website: http://www.tebergfund.com/cgi-bin/client_product.cgi?member=1&product_id=2

I told her I was unsure about his advice, that I thought it seemed like a better idea to be mortgage free in four years and then maybe, depending on their overall financial situation, think about investing at that point. But she really likes his idea and is planning to try to talk her husband into it.

Is he just trying to get another client, no matter what the long-term cost to the client, or is there something I’m missing where this really is their best choice?


She should run in the other direction. RUN. She can invest money as she earns it, (not with him) and will have even more to invest in 4 years when her mortgage is paid off.
 
Just wanted to add, my friend's mom ended up committed in a psych unit for a period of time after their entire retirement fund, 100%, was lost with their finanicial planner, Bernie Madoff. She just had a complete breakdown, they lost everything they had saved and worked for over their lifetime.

Do not trust your money to anyone, you should know where your money is invested and never put all of your money in one investment or trust it to one person. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. He wants her money of course for his personal benefit.

If she wants to invest more she should look into different investment vehicles herself.
 
Just wanted to add, my friend's mom ended up committed in a psych unit for a period of time after their entire retirement fund, 100%, was lost with their finanicial planner, Bernie Madoff. She just had a complete breakdown, they lost everything they had saved and worked for over their lifetime.

Do not trust your money to anyone, you should know where your money is invested and never put all of your money in one investment or trust it to one person. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. He wants her money of course for his personal benefit.

If she wants to invest more she should look into different investment vehicles herself.

Wow! What a horrible story!

I had a bad feeling about this guy too. I would never give him my money!
 

I think it depends on what her goals are. I'm not one of those Dave Ramsey followers who feels the burning need to be mortgage free.

I have a 20 year mortgage that fits our life style very nicely along with investment vehicles for retirement, college savings and money to enjoy life now.

One of the issues I have with all tv psychs, financial gurus and self helpers is the bottom line, they too are trying to sell you some thing. Dave ain't doling out advice for free.

This is one area where people have to do the leg work for themselves and see who or what fits their situation and goals.
 
That is the craziest thing I've ever heard! What happens if she should lose her job or becomes temporarily injured and unable to work and then has all that debt?

I've never heard any kind of financial planner tell anyone to go into more debt. Investing is great, but get out of debt first!

We have a 15 year mortgage too. When we first bought, we had to go with a 30, but we refinanced as soon as we could afford the 15. We'll pay ours off in 4 years too and we cannot WAIT to owe nothing to anyone. (we don't have any other debt). We considered a home equity loan awhile back, but decided it wasn't worth the stress of having more debt plus the interest we'd pay (we wanted something...we didn't NEED it). We would do it if it were for something necessary. But not just for a luxury and certainly not just to invest.

Chloelovesdisney is right - she should RUN! Run far, run fast! If she wants to invest money, she should do research and invest it herself! But not at the rsik of losing her home! I'll say it again - that's crazy!
 
First let me say that I do not like Dave Ramsey. To call hiim a financial planner is an insult to all of us who worked and studied to become a qualified financial planner. With that said, the advice you heard was pretty crazy and it didn't come from a financial planner either! Using leverage can be a legitimate investment strategy in some situations but not when it comes to pulling out home equity to do it.

I checked out the link you posted. The man runs a mutual fund. He is just gathering assets, and apparently not very ethically if he is making sales pitches at the chiropractors office!
 
If someone tells you that you should take on more debt and give all your money to them, they do not have your best interest at heart. I'm a bit confused--did she contact this guy for advice or did he just randomly tell her this in the chiropractor's office?
 
Umm, that guy definitely does not sound like he's giving very sound investment information that would be beneficial to anyone but himself. Sounds very shady to me.
 
If someone tells you that you should take on more debt and give all your money to them, they do not have your best interest at heart. I'm a bit confused--did she contact this guy for advice or did he just randomly tell her this in the chiropractor's office?

randomly told her this in the chiropractor's office. It was pretty bizarre - I don't even remember how the conversation came about... except that he was showing her plans about all the remodeling he is doing in his office. :rolleyes:
 
First let me say that I do not like Dave Ramsey. To call hiim a financial planner is an insult to all of us who worked and studied to become a qualified financial planner. With that said, the advice you heard was pretty crazy and it didn't come from a financial planner either! Using leverage can be a legitimate investment strategy in some situations but not when it comes to pulling out home equity to do it.

I checked out the link you posted. The man runs a mutual fund. He is just gathering assets, and apparently not very ethically if he is making sales pitches at the chiropractors office!

I don't know that I technically called Dave Ramsey a financial planner, but I understand what you're saying. I think he has some good ideas but I only follow them to the point that they fit my life. I don't think everyone can ever fit into one certain plan, and some plans aren't a good fit for some people at all. I totally get that.:thumbsup2

But financial planner or no, I just really thought this guy today was way out there, and I thank you, my Dis friends, for confirming for me that I'm not totally crazy! :rotfl:
 
randomly told her this in the chiropractor's office. It was pretty bizarre - I don't even remember how the conversation came about... except that he was showing her plans about all the remodeling he is doing in his office. :rolleyes:

:lmao: Umm...no, I'm not handing my money over to some guy who just claims to be a financial advisor. Jeez, I hope her husband sets her straight and she doesn't fall for this.
 
That is insane advice.

What happens if her situation changes/turns for the worse? In 4 years, she wouldn't have to worry about the bank coming and foreclosing on her house. If she refinances for 30 years, invests the money and then she loses every penny (because I can almost guarantee you the investments he is talking about are NOT ones that are guaranteed to pay big -- it's quite possible for her to lose every last penny in the deal). Guess what, the bank can then come take the house.

We have been struggling for the last few years & DH just got a job in the last month after being laid off since January, If we didn't have a mortgage payment, things wouldn't have been so bleak on everything else.

I would definitely be RUNNING the other direction from that kind of advice. I'm certainly no financial expert & my credit is trashed at the moment due to the unemployment but unless she has the money to burn that is crazy advice.
 
It really depends on your tolerance for risk. The higher the risk, the higher the potential reward. I used to refer to Donald Trump as "America's broke billionaire" because he routinely risks everything he owns, loses it, then recovers it all and more.
Most of us are not Donald Trump.
DW and I would never take equity out of our house. We paid off our house in 17 years, and never took a penny of equity out of it.
And we were rebels in our families. We were the first in the family to have a mortgage and not to pay cash for a house. Granted the homes our parents first bought weren't much more than shacks, but they traded up as the houses appreciated and they saved more money.
We easily could have purchased a home for what we put down, but that just wasn't what we wanted to do.
 
The fund is actually a listed fund, not a private fund. So you can get information from various ratings services. According to Morningstar, it is classified as a conservative allocation fund, but I think they base that just on the mix between fixed income and equity investments. It is a fund of funds which basically means that the manager is creating a portfolio of funds at a set asset allocation. So you have two layers of fund expenses - the underlying funds and then the Teburg Funds 3%+ fee. Outrageous!

I hope the woman has better sense than to go into debt to invest in what is at best a risky proposition. Odds are that her money wouldn't disappear but she is apt to lose money since the fund is currently rated at the bottom of its peer group by Morningstar.
 
I think very highly of Ramsey and think a person would be nuts to do whats in the original post, but during the 90's that was somewhat sound financial sense. Cheap interest is the key. The expectation is that what you pay in interest is less than you gain in return on an investment. Not sure today's schizophrenic market is something you want to bet everything on. Because the other side of the story is bankruptcy.

I prefer Dave Ramsey's way of thinking, debt is bad, your credit score is a debt score. You own your house outright and you always have a roof over your head no matter the economy. As long as you can at least work at Walmart I suppose.
 
Sounds like a bad idea to me. Not sure why you would want to take a mortgage with 4 years left and turn it into a 30 year mortgage.

It seems like a way for him to make money by having her take out the equity and then turn around a pay interest on her "equity" for another 26 years. In theory, he's trying to tell her that if she has a new 30 year mortgage at say 4.5% that he can turn her "equity" into even more money by earning her something greater than 4.5% on her investment.
 
I did a quick look at the amortization table for my 15 year mortgage. At the point when 48 payments remain I will have paid over 2/3 of the loan principal.

Considering the state of the Real Estate market, an interesting question to ask this guy is how much is his house worth now? If he has refinanced four times, taking out equity each time, he may now be underwater.
 


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