Starting down the college path for my kids, clueless!

[SondraC]

Help needed please! We are in the process of doing the whole college thing. My step-daughter is a senior (goes to school in CA with her mom, we live in PA), and my DS is a junior.
It has been a sloooow process with step-dd. We took her on her only campus visit (Pitt) and have offered to do other ones when she was her last Easter & then again when she was here in summer.
She just called us with list of 8 schools she wants to apply to, and asked for our cc # to help pay application fees (we didn't give it to her). Her schools that she said she wants to go to are NYU, Berkley, UCLA, San Fran, Univer. of Colorado & PSU, plus 2 others.
She only took her SATs once. Her score was around 1550, she said she was going to take them one more time this weekend. I asked shouldn't she first know her scores before applying?? She SAT scores are just one of things they look at, and she is not too concerned about them.
Also, if she does decide & get into a school what happens then? Is income looked at both parents to determine aid? Is this all submitted somewhere on a national site?
Thoughts?? Opinions??

 

[Mary•Poppins]

I have a DS that is a junior and another one that is a sophomore. I am currently reading a book called Debt Free-U and so far it has been great. It was written by a kid (he is still in college) about paying your own way through school and financing it. We plan to pay about 1/2 for our sons ... but we have been paving the way to make them responsible for themselves and the amount of debt they get into (which we are striving for none).

I personally think 8 colleges is too many to be applying to ... but we are aren't there yet. If her mom lives in CA, she could have better opportunities to pay less for state schools than in PA (we live in PA and are shocked at the prices for state schools in PA ... we toured PSU and it is 15,000.00 for tuition and 9,000.00 for room and board for ONE year! )

We also found out that colleges don't look too closely at your senior year grades (primarily just what you are taking and the fact that you don't slack off). You should ask her what her QPA is along with her SAT then go to the college websites she wants to apply to just to see if she even has a chance of getting into them. (If she doesn't have what they want, why apply?)

I hope this helps a bit ... I will be subscribing since we are also going down the same path and I am very interested in what others have to say who know a lot more about this than me.

Good luck and hope it all works out.

 

[WhateverLolaWants]

Have her check in with a college counselor at school. They can help her realistically pick out schools to apply to. Another thing they might be able to help her with is finding applications where the fee is waived.

 

[bballmom56]

Is that 1550 the total for all 3 sections (math, critical reading and writing) or just the math and critical reading? If it is for all 3 sections, that is low for NYU, Berkley, UCLA and maybe even PSU. Yes, it is only one part of the application, but it can be an important part.

Another good site for college information is collegeconfidential.com. You can find lots of good information there.

 

[SondraC]

Thanks for the info so far!!!

bballmom,
Yes her scores are 1550 total, for all 3. That is why we told her to wait to see if her scores go up. We are going to be the bad guys through all of this because I know her scores are too low for most of these schools.

 

[SondraC]

I have a DS that is a junior and another one that is a sophomore. I am currently reading a book called Debt Free-U and so far it has been great. It was written by a kid (he is still in college) about paying your own way through school and financing it. We plan to pay about 1/2 for our sons ... but we have been paving the way to make them responsible for themselves and the amount of debt they get into (which we are striving for none).

I personally think 8 colleges is too many to be applying to ... but we are aren't there yet. If her mom lives in CA, she could have better opportunities to pay less for state schools than in PA (we live in PA and are shocked at the prices for state schools in PA ... we toured PSU and it is 15,000.00 for tuition and 9,000.00 for room and board for ONE year! )

We also found out that colleges don't look too closely at your senior year grades (primarily just what you are taking and the fact that you don't slack off). You should ask her what her QPA is along with her SAT then go to the college websites she wants to apply to just to see if she even has a chance of getting into them. (If she doesn't have what they want, why apply?)

I hope this helps a bit ... I will be subscribing since we are also going down the same path and I am very interested in what others have to say who know a lot more about this than me.

Good luck and hope it all works out.

My dh works for UPMC that is why we looked @ Pitt. She said no because they don't have a journalism program.

 

[bballmom56]

bballmom,
Yes her scores are 1550 total, for all 3. That is why we told her to wait to see if her scores go up. We are going to be the bad guys through all of this because I know her scores are too low for most of these schools.

I would guess she has a gpa of maybe 3.0-3.5? There is a specific thread for parents of kids in that range on the website I mentioned. It is on the parents forum. These parents have researched many, many colleges in all areas of the US that fit a student with those stats. Don't be afraid to join in and tell them what your situation is. They are very nice, very knowledgeable and are happy to help!

 

[IFLOSIRI]

just went through process sat and act very important schools will tell you what the average is needed. you may be able to get some scholaships from different organizations in town, and may get grants depending on income

 

[tvguy]

Have her check in with a college counselor at school. They can help her realistically pick out schools to apply to. Another thing they might be able to help her with is finding applications where the fee is waived.

Exactly.

To OP. She should take the ACT too. While more and more colleges are not requiring either the SAT or the ACT anymore, most colleges that accept both will take the higher score, and kids tend to test differently on each exam.

8 colleges is too many, have her pick her top 4. Also look, because some schools don't charge application fees.

As for financial aid, yes, both parents income counts. You fill out a FAFSA student aid application. When you finish the application you will get an e-mail telling you what your (as in both parents together) expected financial contribution is. That number will be mind boggling, because the Feds generally expect you to spend about 28% of your GROSS income per year on college costs. And if you contribute to a 401k at work, or an IRA or other retirement plan with YOUR money, be warned, unlike the IRS, they do not deduct that from your gross income. The Feds consider retirement saving to be a secondary priority to paying your kids college tuition. There are exceptions for older parents......but I think it's pretty old, like over age 60, and most parents with kids in college are much younger than that.
And be warned, the Feds are rating you for financial aid.......they lump scholarships and parent and student loans under that heading. So being told you qualify for a lot of financial aid, may mean 80% of that is loans, and 20% grants and scholarships.
You will also apply for a PIN number. All the instructions are on their website.
Their site is http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/

Here's a good high school college planning website.
http://cbhs.ca.campusgrid.net/home/People+&+Places/Guidance+&+College+Counseling

 

[LilyWDW]

Thanks for the info so far!!!

bballmom,
Yes her scores are 1550 total, for all 3. That is why we told her to wait to see if her scores go up. We are going to be the bad guys through all of this because I know her scores are too low for most of these schools.

Also tell her that while the scores are only a part of it, admissions and applications are WAY up in many areas. This means that people who may have been able to get in with those scores 5ish years ago are simply not making the cut now. When you have minimal spaces, you pick the best.

You need to be "the bad guys" and explain to her the realities of college. She needs to know that she might not make the cut of the big schools. She also needs to be shown the numbers... as in $$. How is she going to pay for it? The schools she listed are not only harder to get into... but cost more to go to. She needs to realize that going instate could help lower those costs, but depending on the school, it could still be a tidy some of money.

Let me give you a personal example...
The school I go to for grad school is $4k a semester (I am rounding my numbers). This is for a state school where I am a resident and to attend classes on campus AND online.

Another school I applied to would have been $9k for the same credits a semester. This would have been an out of state school, big name (Texas A&M), and all online

How is she going to be paying for this? Has she looked into financial aid? Scholarships? Does she know how much debt she would be in if she did all loans (especially at the schools she is naming)?

Does she know what she wants to do? Do the schools she wants to attend have good programs for that? Has she researched schools that have excellent programs for her course of study? She may be surprised about what programs are the best.

Has she said WHY she has chosen those schools?

Sorry so long, but choosing a college, figuring out how to pay for it, and making sure you will be happy with that choice is not an easy thing to do. I started my search back in my junior year of high school. I had already done MANY campus tours before I was a senior. Heck, I was supposed to register for my college classes BEFORE I had graduated (I didn't because it was too long of a trip, so I was moved to the first summer registration. Since I was in the honors college I had priority... otherwise I may not have gotten my classes).

 

[TLuvsD]

If you go to collegeboard.com you can do a college search:
http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/adv_typeofschool.jsp

If you put the name of the school in the search box your can view information on that school. You can view scores for the middle 50% of admitted students, for UC Berkely they are Critical Reading 590-710, Math 640-760, Writing 620-710. The UC's calculate their own version of a GPA: sophmore and junior grades, 4.0 scale, only 8 extra points for each semester of a weighted class. 91% of the UC Berkley students have a GPA of 3.75 or higher.

While it isn't unreasonable to apply to a "reach" school or two, the list shouldn't be loaded with reach schools.

Many schools require financial information from all households connected to the student. Some only require the informatin from her residence (her mom). It might also be time to review the divorce decree and see if it calls for specific support during the college years.

California has a great tiered system of colleges, community colleges, state uni's and then the University of California schools. The easiest way to get into the UC is to start at the community college and set a transfer program.

Depending on when the application is due, she may need to apply without the scores. The application deadline can be found when doing the above searches.

Pm me if you want, we are in the middle of this with DD and a nephew....

 

[arminnie]

Ooops - I forgot that the 1550 is now for three parts not two. For two parts those would be great. For three - well it's ok.

She really, really needs to have a "safety" net somewhere. She has very little chance of getting accepted to highly selective schools.

My nephew graduated with high honors, great SAT scores from one of the best East Coast prep schools. He set his sights very high. Guess what he didn't get into ANY of the schools he applied to.

At the last minute I was pulling strings with my alma mater to get him accepted in June (at a school that had already accepted more than they could handle out of 30,000 applicants for 1500 spaces). And his parents could pay full price.

She might be a good candidate for the California community colleges. The cost is very reasonable. My neice did not score well on SATs even with lots of coaching, etc. But she is a very,very hard worker. She went to community college for two years and then ended up graduating from USC with top honors. She could hae never been accepted to USC as a freshman. I have a friend who went to a CA community college for two years and then was accepted to Stanford. He also went on to grad school at Stanford.

 

[bluesaturn]

I don't think 8 schools are too many, it seems like a good number to me. Personally, I would be too paranoid to pick only 4 because I think even prepared students find a lot of surprises come admissions time. But I really like have options "just in case".

I do think she likely needs to choose more carefully. You need to spell out right now exactly who will be paying for college, and how, right now using exact amounts. That information should impact her choices, and if it doesn't she needs you to help her understand how important the money piece is. She also needs to be very realistic about where she stands a good chance of getting in. It's okay to have a few reach schools, but not all.

Tread carefully during the admissions process. It's an extremely emotional time for the parent and the child, and things can get heated quickly.

 

[erincon23]

Go to collegeboard.com and register. That's the company that puts out the SATs. They send out emails to both parents and kids with info about applying, financial aid, etc., timed to what the kids should be doing when. She's picked an awfully broad (geographic) range of schools -- do they all offer a major she's interested in, or are they all in areas she'd like to go to school? I agree with PPs -- she should definitely take the ACT, and should look at taking the SAT again. Depending on her GPA, her test scores can make a huge difference for scholarships. A friend's son had a great GPA, but his first ACT score was only 25 -- he took it several times to get it up to at least a 29 (last I heard), and he ended up getting several offers for scholarships in the $15-$20,000 range for their honors programs. (my son wasn't so lucky, his GPA wasn't high enough to worry about trying to raise his ACT above the 26 he got first )

For financial aid, because her parents are divorced, that will make a big difference in the aid view, depending on the terms of the divorce decree, who she lives with primarily, etc. Unless your husband is specifically required to help pay for college, his income may not be figured in if she lives mostly with her mom (not that he can't contribute, just may not be considered in the FAFSA numbers). He (or you, whoever is helping with this, sounds like you) should probably consult a financial advisor -- you want her to get the best financial aid package she can. Don't automatically assume that both parents' income will be included in her financial statement.

You may want to check out the thread on this board about kids heading to college this year (2010 -- the new freshmen). There's lots of good stuff there, from our trials and tribulations to (somewhere in there) suggestions for what to send to school with the kids.

Good luck! It's a scary procedure.

 

[agnes!]

My dh works for UPMC that is why we looked @ Pitt. She said no because they don't have a journalism program.

Take a look at this collegeconfidential thread: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pittsburgh/998698-does-pitt-offer-journalism.html
Pitt-Johnstown has a journalism program, Pitt used to offer a journalism major but now apparently offers a journalism track within their English Department.

And yes, I do think you're correct in your assessment of her SAT scores, I'm afraid they seem low to me for most of the schools mentioned. She should take the ACTs, they are biased towards women (don't ask me why, that is anecdotal from a relative who worked with a college info website). Also, if she is interesetd in *ANY* California state schools, she MUST get her apps in as soon as possible. Last year California cut off in-state admission applications in November.

I disagree with tvguy. Applying to 4 is too little, I think that she should apply to at least 6...some 'reach' schools, some safe schools, some the-bottom-has-fallen-out-of-my-world schools. She should also apply to a range of different types - some state(in-state) schools, some out-of-state/state schools, some private schools. Many private schools are in better financial shape than the seemingly less-expensive states (California state budget crunch anyone?) & they have more endowments to fund student-aid with.

agnes!

 

[LilyWDW]

You will need to know the individual section scores for the SAT as TluvsD noted. Most schools will look at the scores that way... not JUST as a total. As such, if she really scored low in one section, it could really hurt her.

As of 2006, a 1550 (out of 2400) placed her right around the 50th percentile. In comparison, this would be about a 21 on the ACT. If you look at the schools she is listing, some of them want closer to 1800+ (broken down into the different sections). This would be closer to the 81st percentile and higher (middle 50% of students at UCBerkley, NYU, and UCLA). Next lowest would be University of Pittsburgh, then San Francisco, and University of Colorado.

Note: Looking at reports from this year (2010) the numbers look about the same when it comes to percentiles.

 

[SondraC]

Exactly.

To OP. She should take the ACT too. While more and more colleges are not requiring either the SAT or the ACT anymore, most colleges that accept both will take the higher score, and kids tend to test differently on each exam.

8 colleges is too many, have her pick her top 4. Also look, because some schools don't charge application fees.

As for financial aid, yes, both parents income counts. You fill out a FAFSA student aid application. When you finish the application you will get an e-mail telling you what your (as in both parents together) expected financial contribution is. That number will be mind boggling, because the Feds generally expect you to spend about 28% of your GROSS income per year on college costs. And if you contribute to a 401k at work, or an IRA or other retirement plan with YOUR money, be warned, unlike the IRS, they do not deduct that from your gross income. The Feds consider retirement saving to be a secondary priority to paying your kids college tuition. There are exceptions for older parents......but I think it's pretty old, like over age 60, and most parents with kids in college are much younger than that.
And be warned, the Feds are rating you for financial aid.......they lump scholarships and parent and student loans under that heading. So being told you qualify for a lot of financial aid, may mean 80% of that is loans, and 20% grants and scholarships.
You will also apply for a PIN number. All the instructions are on their website.
Their site is http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/

Here's a good high school college planning website.
http://cbhs.ca.campusgrid.net/home/People+&+Places/Guidance+&+College+Counseling

Thanks for this information! I wasn't sure about how the aid thing works.

 

[Mimi1965]

She really is looking at top notch schools-that are a waste of time for her with her average score.
Is there a college where she can live at home? that saves $$$

 

[SondraC]

She really is looking at top notch schools-that are a waste of time for her with her average score.
Is there a college where she can live at home? that saves $$$

Yes this is part of our frustration!! Especially when she could attend Pitt for a discount since her dad works for them!

 

[SondraC]

You will need to know the individual section scores for the SAT as TluvsD noted. Most schools will look at the scores that way... not JUST as a total. As such, if she really scored low in one section, it could really hurt her.

As of 2006, a 1550 (out of 2400) placed her right around the 50th percentile. In comparison, this would be about a 21 on the ACT. If you look at the schools she is listing, some of them want closer to 1800+ (broken down into the different sections). This would be closer to the 81st percentile and higher (middle 50% of students at UCBerkley, NYU, and UCLA). Next lowest would be University of Pittsburgh, then San Francisco, and University of Colorado.

Note: Looking at reports from this year (2010) the numbers look about the same when it comes to percentiles.

I am looking at all this info too, thanks!