**spoilers*** Lost Season Five **spoilers**

[Cindyluwho]

Sorry - I had another thought. The whole Danielle thing bothers me. Why didn't she recognize Jin when she saw him again after the crash? Yes, I know it's been 16 years, but since Jin was time-traveling, he didn't age during those 16 years and looked the same. Why didn't Danielle show any signs of recognition? Or even "you look very familiar", the way Daniel looked at Ellie (who I think is a young Eloise and Daniel's mother).

My DD15 had this explanation:
When Daniel met Desmond on the island he didn't recognize him, because he hadn't met him in the past YET. Same with Danielle. When she met Jin on the island in the present, the thing in the past hadn't been changed yet.

 

[harleyquinn]

My DD15 had this explanation:
When Daniel met Desmond on the island he didn't recognize him, because he hadn't met him in the past YET. Same with Danielle. When she met Jin on the island in the present, the thing in the past hadn't been changed yet.

No, that would screw up the laws of time travel. Basically if something is going to happen it already it has. That's why the jumping losties can't interract with the past.

Desmond's situation was explained when he told us that he didn't remember the encounter until the dream. Therefore he wouldn't have recognized Daniel.

And Danielle is crazy, and now we know why and just how much. Jin shows up at the most tramatic moment of her life. She's totally freaked out and think he's "sick" too. She has seen crazy things she can't explain, but doesn't tell the losties everything. I'm sure she has seen plenty of "dead" people or things that don't belong and just shrugs them off by now...


I posted this on the other thread, but thought you might have some interesting thoughts too...
I thought one interesting part was at the beach with Jin and Danielle. When Jin came across the corpses I said, "Wow, they could be twins, I don't remember twins on the boat." lol Then when we saw "Robert" and Danielle I realized the smoke monster was sending out flesh and blood replicas of Robert?! And Danielle had already killed two? No wonder she's nuts and doesn't remember Jin...

I think it's interesting that the island can do this and it's been confirmed, so all of the "dead" people we saw come back and talk to the Losties weren't just in their imaginations or hullucinations, they were "real"?

And one more thing, we know that Daniel has 2 more very important jumps,
1. To see child-Charlotte
2. To go into the being built Orchid station...
So I guess John doesn't completly fix things...maybe he just makes it happen less frequently?

 

[Cindyluwho]

No, that would screw up the laws of time travel. Basically if something is going to happen it already it has. That's why the jumping losties can't interract with the past.

Desmond's situation was explained when he told us that he didn't remember the encounter until the dream. Therefore he wouldn't have recognized Daniel.

You're thinking of the meeting at the hatch. But Des also met Daniel when he was mind traveling on the boat. Daniel told him to go to Scotland and meet up with him at the University. So why wouldn't have Des remembered him when Daniel first showed up on the island?

And yes, the Losties do interract with the past, they just don't interract with themselves in the past as it might be dangerous.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just stating a different theory as if we don't all have a million of 'em!!

 

[harleyquinn]

You're thinking of the meeting at the hatch. But Des also met Daniel when he was mind traveling on the boat. Daniel told him to go to Scotland and meet up with him at the University. So why wouldn't have Des remembered him when Daniel first showed up on the island?

And yes, the Losties do interract with the past, they just don't interract with themselves in the past as it might be dangerous.

What? When did he not remember him on the island?

And only in certain situations do they interact with the past--in the ones that already happened. Sawyer didn't talk to Kate in the past, because he didn't talk to Kate in the future.

Time is constant, if someone jumps to the past and interacts, it ALWAYS happened...it doesn't just suddenly happen when they jump, it always happened. Remembering and not remembering can be explained in lots of ways. Charlotte didn't remember Daniel telling her not to come back until right before she died. It's convient TV show memory.

 

[wdhinn89]

Just throwing this out there.

Didn't Daniel keep a book that he would often refer to with notes about things that happened? Didn't he look at this book before he told Desmond to meet him in Scotland, before he became Desmonds constant?

Maybe they don't have memories of things that happened. That is why Danielle doesn't remember Jin and Charlotte does not remember Daniel. and that is why Daniel writes everything down.

 

[brerrabbit]

Sorry - I had another thought. The whole Danielle thing bothers me. Why didn't she recognize Jin when she saw him again after the crash? Yes, I know it's been 16 years, but since Jin was time-traveling, he didn't age during those 16 years and looked the same. Why didn't Danielle show any signs of recognition? Or even "you look very familiar", the way Daniel looked at Ellie (who I think is a young Eloise and Daniel's mother).

Because when Dainelle met Jin the first time Jin had not time traveled yet. Just like Desmond did not have the memory of going to find Faradays Mom until Faraday told him to. I think this is the reason that they started getting us into the whole time travel thing by way of mind jumping as opposed to actual time travel. Desmond's current consiousnous was transported back in time but not his body. The same is true for all the other time travel. The alternate reality does not happen if someone from 2005 travels back in time to 1988 until it's 2005. Therefore the actual events are not really happening in a way to the person in the past, it only exsists as a memory. When Desmond woke up after Daniel told him at the Swan station to find his Mother, he woke up in the current time with that encounter as a memory. Peeny told him it was a dream but he insisted that no "it was a memory" Danielle could never have the memory of Jin because he traveled back in time after she died so she would have never had the memory.

Wow after reading what I wrote I'm not sure I even understand it. JK!

 

[harleyquinn]

Just throwing this out there.

Didn't Daniel keep a book that he would often refer to with notes about things that happened? Didn't he look at this book before he told Desmond to meet him in Scotland, before he became Desmonds constant?

Maybe they don't have memories of things that happened. That is why Danielle doesn't remember Jin and Charlotte does not remember Daniel. and that is why Daniel writes everything down.

That's a very good idea!

Although Penny was Desmonds constant, not Daniel. That's why the jumping didn't stop until Des called Penny from the freighter... Tho thinking about it..they both should have been...

 

[harleyquinn]

Because when Dainelle met Jin the first time Jin had not time traveled yet. Just like Desmond did not have the memory of going to find Faradays Mom until Faraday told him to. I think this is the reason that they started getting us into the whole time travel thing by way of mind jumping as opposed to actual time travel. Desmond's current consiousnous was transported back in time but not his body. The same is true for all the other time travel. The alternate reality does not happen if someone from 2005 travels back in time to 1988 until it's 2005. Therefore the actual events are not really happening in a way to the person in the past, it only exsists as a memory. When Desmond woke up after Daniel told him at the Swan station to find his Mother, he woke up in the current time with that encounter as a memory. Peeny told him it was a dream but he insisted that no "it was a memory" Danielle could never have the memory of Jin because he traveled back in time after she died so she would have never had the memory.

Wow after reading what I wrote I'm not sure I even understand it. JK!

I got ya and the examples you give are logical, but not all of the situations we've seen work with it...

Nope, that's just not how time travel works. If someone jumps to the past the event ALWAYS took place in the past.
I read a lot of books with time travel and watch a lot of shows with time travel (Dr Who anyone). Every single one of them ends up with that constant fact, if someone time travels it always happened. Time is constant.

And I know Daniel's rules for time travel stated something to that fact...Let me find them.

 

[harleyquinn]

Here's Daniel's quote:
“Time is like a street. You can go forwards or backwards, but you can’t change the street”

But I do think that maybe the memories of the events might be popping up the way you describe brer rabbit...

 

[brerrabbit]

It was a little confusing but what I mean is that the events do actually happen to everyone involved in the past, its just that the memory of the event does not occur in the non time travelers mind until the point in the future that the time traveler actually goes back in time and makes it happen. So if I am alive in 1990 and still alive in 2005 I will not have a memory of an encounter with a time traveler who I encountered in 1990 until the time travel in 2005. So from 1990 till 2005 I have no memory but suddenly in 2005 the memory pops into my head.

This makes sense to me in context of Daniels comment you quoted earlier. Time is like a street, forward, backward but you can't change the street. Thats why Hawkings told Desmond the first time they met that Charlie would die, or he would go to the island and push the button, because it was meant to be and had happened already and could not be changed.

This version of time travel varies greatly from some of the other variations like Back to the Future in that you cannot change things in such a way as to wipe out the very exsistance of some people. In BTTF Marty and his siblings were being wiped out of exsistence because his past mother and father were not going to kiss, get married and have kids. THis can't happen with Lost.

 

[wdhinn89]

It was a little confusing but what I mean is that the events do actually happen to everyone involved in the past, its just that the memory of the event does not occur in the non time travelers mind until the point in the future that the time traveler actually goes back in time and makes it happen. So if I am alive in 1990 and still alive in 2005 I will not have a memory of an encounter with a time traveler who I encountered in 1990 until the time travel in 2005. So from 1990 till 2005 I have no memory but suddenly in 2005 the memory pops into my head..

I understand what you mean and it does make sense. An example would be when Daniel ran back to the hatch to tell Desmond to contact his mother and the memory than popping into Desmonds head while sleeping.

 

[wdhinn89]

It was a little confusing but what I mean is that the events do actually happen to everyone involved in the past, its just that the memory of the event does not occur in the non time travelers mind until the point in the future that the time traveler actually goes back in time and makes it happen. So if I am alive in 1990 and still alive in 2005 I will not have a memory of an encounter with a time traveler who I encountered in 1990 until the time travel in 2005. So from 1990 till 2005 I have no memory but suddenly in 2005 the memory pops into my head..

I understand what you mean and it does make sense. An example would be when Daniel ran back to the hatch to tell Desmond to contact his mother and the memory than popping into Desmonds head while sleeping.

 

[harleyquinn]

Just in case you all don't read the other Lost thread, about 10 people pointed out to me that the other corpses on the beach were, in fact, other members of the party with Danielle, not all Robert copies.

I think I'm either looking to hard, or not hard enough! lol

 

[harleyquinn]

It was a little confusing but what I mean is that the events do actually happen to everyone involved in the past, its just that the memory of the event does not occur in the non time travelers mind until the point in the future that the time traveler actually goes back in time and makes it happen. So if I am alive in 1990 and still alive in 2005 I will not have a memory of an encounter with a time traveler who I encountered in 1990 until the time travel in 2005. So from 1990 till 2005 I have no memory but suddenly in 2005 the memory pops into my head.

This version of time travel varies greatly from some of the other variations like Back to the Future in that you cannot change things in such a way as to wipe out the very exsistance of some people. In BTTF Marty and his siblings were being wiped out of exsistence because his past mother and father were not going to kiss, get married and have kids. THis can't happen with Lost.

But this doesn't work with Charlotte and Daniel cuz Daniel would have to be traveling to tell her not to come back when she is telling him about her memory.

Great point about BTTF!! Not all time travel follows the "rules"--that would mean it was real and boring. I just thought based on Daniel's rules that they were following the more traditional path.

And coming from the person who thought the corpses on the beach were all Robert copies--I obviously have no idea what I'm talking about so we don't have to agree! (It might be smart of you not to!)

 

[Suzy Mouse]

I have a question...How can Charolette die if Daniel is right there? Couldn't he be her constant?

 

[Nik's Mom]

What am I missing here? What is the significance of Eloise? She looked familiar, but I can't remember why? Someone fill me in.
Thanks!

 

[bigmerle1966]

What am I missing here? What is the significance of Eloise? She looked familiar, but I can't remember why? Someone fill me in.
Thanks!

She was the one Desmond met when he was having his mind flashes.

 

[Saxsoon]

She was the one Desmond met when he was having his mind flashes.

He was going to buy Penny's wedding ring from her, but she refused saying it would change history.

 

[bigmerle1966]

He was going to buy Penny's wedding ring from her, but she refused saying it would change history.

I couldn't remember if that was the only time he saw her or not, too many story lines to keep them all straight.

 

[LoveKermit]

Oy!

And this is why I try to avoid things with time travel. You guys have confused the heck out of me.

As far as new theories.....I got nothin'. But I am more confused!