Splash Mountain changing to Princess and the Frog?

Briar Patch Home

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jul 1, 2020
This is my first post, though I haven't seen a whole lot of discussion on this board about the future change. If it happens, words can't describe how disgusted I'll be. This by far, BY FAR is my families favorite attraction in all of Disneyworld. I just don't understand it and there's no doubt in my mind 99.9% of Disney fans don't understand it either. First of all, how does Princess and the Frog fit in to Frontierland? It doesn't. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail after all of this irrational political correctness cools off.
 
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disneysteve

DIS meet junkie
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
I'm sure if you head over to the Themeparks board, there is an active discussion about this.

Splash Mountain also doesn't fit thematically in Frontierland as it takes place at a completely different point in history and in the south, not the wild west.

Disney has known for decades that Song of the South was problematic. That issue didn't just arise. That's why they've never released the movie for home video and it isn't on Disney +.
 


Briar Patch Home

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jul 1, 2020
I'm sure if you head over to the Themeparks board, there is an active discussion about this.

Splash Mountain also doesn't fit thematically in Frontierland as it takes place at a completely different point in history and in the south, not the wild west.

Disney has known for decades that Song of the South was problematic. That issue didn't just arise. That's why they've never released the movie for home video and it isn't on Disney +.
I guess if you'd ask 1000 African Americans in the US today; What was the Song of the South? Maybe 1 would know. The rest would probably say Dixie. The others would say I don't care about the movie or even know what it is and I love Disneyworld and Splash Mountain, or I'd love to go to same.
 
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  • Briar Patch Home

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2020
    All I have to say is, there's no doubt in my mind that you couldn't find a single African/American that would not go to Disneyworld, because of Splash Mountain, or dislikes Disney because of Splash Mountain. 99.999% don't know the connection between Splash Mountain and the movie Song of the South and 99.999% don't care. We're living in the Twilight Zone and Disney has lost their collective minds.
     

    MrToad1955

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2020
    Huh? Have any of you seen Song of the South? I just watched it again and see nothing racist. Let’s talk about the main concerns in the movie. The movie depicts “happy slaves‘. -no it does not. The events of the movie take place after the war. Historically, former slaves were freed but had nothing. Some may have stayed as servants, not slaves, to still work farms and plantations. The movie Showcases that scenario. 2- the use of the story of the Tar Baby. Today that term is derogatory and racist. But in the past it meant getting oneself in a difficult or sticky situation. Hence Bret Rabbit gets stuck in the tar baby. 3- speech. This one is tough as again if we go back to the 1800’s southern speech for uneducated people, both white and black, was not our ‘eloquent‘ pattern of speech today. Posotive aspects of the film- little Johnnys parents were separating as father went back to Atlanta, leaving Johnny and mom with grandma. Johnny needed a friend and found 3 with poor little Jenny, Toby and of course Uncle Remus. Through emotional and physical trials, Johnny learns valuable lessons from the Brer Rabbit stories. By the end of the film we see Johnny singing and walking hand in hand with his 3 best friends. This film being Released at a time when racism was strong in America.
    oK that’s the film. Let’s discuss the ride. The ride is based on the Briar patch critters. They Are based on the stories from Joel Chandler Harris, who collected these stories in the late 1800’s and had them published. The original stories are based on African folklore, much like American folklore stories of Paul Bunyan or Pecos Bill. These stories were later included in the Song of the South film and then later into a flume ride in DL and WDW. The ride does not show anything about Johnny, his grandmother, Toby, Jenny or even Uncle Remus. Therefore the attraction is based solely on the stories themselves.

    i get that rides need to change. I’m ok with that. I miss other favorites like MrToad as it was in WDW. I will miss Splash Mountain with its colorful themes, music, story telling and yes the drop at the end. I figure the ride will be basically the same with new theming. But change it because you want to change it, not due to pressure from a group of people, white, black, red, yellow, green, whatever, who have never seen the movie, formed an accurate depiction and came to their own conclusions rather than what someone told them. Do not even listen to me! Learn about it yourself, then and only then will you see whether or not this ride should give in to those who have not thought things through.

    Pete Warner- I usually agree with many of your observations and criticisms both good and bad but in this case, shame on you Pete Warner for saying that the film is racist. When did you see it last?
     
  • Briar Patch Home

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2020
    Huh? Have any of you seen Song of the South? I just watched it again and see nothing racist. Let’s talk about the main concerns in the movie. The movie depicts “happy slaves‘. -no it does not. The events of the movie take place after the war. Historically, former slaves were freed but had nothing. Some may have stayed as servants, not slaves, to still work farms and plantations. The movie Showcases that scenario. 2- the use of the story of the Tar Baby. Today that term is derogatory and racist. But in the past it meant getting oneself in a difficult or sticky situation. Hence Bret Rabbit gets stuck in the tar baby. 3- speech. This one is tough as again if we go back to the 1800’s southern speech for uneducated people, both white and black, was not our ‘eloquent‘ pattern of speech today. Posotive aspects of the film- little Johnnys parents were separating as father went back to Atlanta, leaving Johnny and mom with grandma. Johnny needed a friend and found 3 with poor little Jenny, Toby and of course Uncle Remus. Through emotional and physical trials, Johnny learns valuable lessons from the Brer Rabbit stories. By the end of the film we see Johnny singing and walking hand in hand with his 3 best friends. This film being Released at a time when racism was strong in America.
    oK that’s the film. Let’s discuss the ride. The ride is based on the Briar patch critters. They Are based on the stories from Joel Chandler Harris, who collected these stories in the late 1800’s and had them published. The original stories are based on African folklore, much like American folklore stories of Paul Bunyan or Pecos Bill. These stories were later included in the Song of the South film and then later into a flume ride in DL and WDW. The ride does not show anything about Johnny, his grandmother, Toby, Jenny or even Uncle Remus. Therefore the attraction is based solely on the stories themselves.

    i get that rides need to change. I’m ok with that. I miss other favorites like MrToad as it was in WDW. I will miss Splash Mountain with its colorful themes, music, story telling and yes the drop at the end. I figure the ride will be basically the same with new theming. But change it because you want to change it, not due to pressure from a group of people, white, black, red, yellow, green, whatever, who have never seen the movie, formed an accurate depiction and came to their own conclusions rather than what someone told them. Do not even listen to me! Learn about it yourself, then and only then will you see whether or not this ride should give in to those who have not thought things through.

    Pete Warner- I usually agree with many of your observations and criticisms both good and bad but in this case, shame on you Pete Warner for saying that the film is racist. When did you see it last?
    Yep, Disney's about to open Pandora's Box. They're heading towards a slippery slope. Lets not stop with Splash Mountain. What other attractions have potential problems.

    Rock'in Roller Coaster - Sexist demeaning to females - "Standing in the corner just a shaking your "Behind" - "Cant catch me cause the rabbit dun died" We can't have a group that sings lyrics like that - Redo - Gone

    7 Dwarfs, are you kidding me - How about 7 vertically challenged men - Redo - Gone

    Pirates - Glorifying cannons shooting people, people who abuse alcohol, murder, rape and pillage. What kind of message does that send to children? - Redo - Gone

    Cinderella's Castle - Helpless girl who kisses the useless boy to get the castle. What kind of message does that send to our daughters - We can't have that - Redo - Gone

    Little Mermaid - Large unattractive woman is the villain. Attractive 12 year old looking girl gets an idiot boy who has a castle. Why isn't Ariel heavyset? Why isn't the sea witch skinny and attractive? What kind of message does that send to other large girls? We can't have that - redo - Gone

    We can keep going.
     
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    Briar Patch Home

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2020
    If anyone needed proof of why Splash Mountain needed to be removed, OP just provided it.
    Maybe wrong, but the last time I checked, Dixie isn't on the playlist at Splash Mountain. The ride isn't about the movie, whether you think it's racist or not. It's strictly about the animated characters period. Nobody that I know of ties the two together.
     

    neurosx1983

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Nov 16, 2019
    Maybe wrong, but the last time I checked, Dixie isn't on the playlist at Splash Mountain. The ride isn't about the movie, whether you think it's racist or not. It's strictly about the animated characters period. Nobody that I know of ties the two together.
    Not sure why you are getting so hyped up about this. This is an offensive movie to black and brown people. Period. As others have pointed out Disney has known about this problematic film for a while but, yes, most people don’t think about that while riding splash Mountain. But with what’s going on right now where everyone in this country is trying to re-examine the way we look at racial issues, I think it’s prudent to re-examine splash Mountain and the film that it was based on. Princess and the frog is an incredible movie and I think it would fit really nicely with the ride.

    Pete is totally right, the people that created Disney world wanted it to evolve and I think this is a long overdue and natural evolution for splash Mountain.
     

    disneysteve

    DIS meet junkie
    Joined
    Sep 29, 2002
    To your post about changing other things:

    Pirates of the Caribbean has had a number of changes over the years to make it more culturally appropriate? The pirates chasing the women and the auction scene have changed, just as examples. As times change and what is socially acceptable changes, Disney has made changes to their attractions.

    Rockin Roller Coaster had a change made to the pre-show video when it was discovered that one of the performers was making an offensive hand gesture.

    Just 2 examples of Disney keeping up with the times. I give them a lot of credit for that.
     
  • OppR2nist

    Grim Grinning Ghost Out to Socialize...
    Joined
    Jun 26, 2020
    To your post about changing other things:

    Pirates of the Caribbean has had a number of changes over the years to make it more culturally appropriate? The pirates chasing the women and the auction scene have changed, just as examples. As times change and what is socially acceptable changes, Disney has made changes to their attractions.

    Rockin Roller Coaster had a change made to the pre-show video when it was discovered that one of the performers was making an offensive hand gesture.

    Just 2 examples of Disney keeping up with the times. I give them a lot of credit for that.
    And if you want to touch on the other hyperbolic non-sequitirs the OP threw out there, here we go:

    Mine Train: The 7 Dwarfs are not human. They are German fairy creatures. It's when you apply that term to humans that we get into problem territory.

    Cinderella's Castle: Non-starter there. Doesn't even make any sense.

    Little Mermaid: Ursula is based on the old drag performer Divine, who was a strong, very self-aware person, and an LGBTQ+ icon. Little mermaid has probably aged best out of the 90's animated movies. It's not going anywhere.

    How about one you might have missed, and how to address it?

    Peter Pan: There is a terribly racist segment of that movie when they meet with the Native American tribe. It's present in the ride. It will take some work to fix, but I have faith that Imagineering can make that happen. That's just one part of an otherwise incredible ride.
     

    Briar Patch Home

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2020
    Not sure why you are getting so hyped up about this. This is an offensive movie to black and brown people. Period. As others have pointed out Disney has known about this problematic film for a while but, yes, most people don’t think about that while riding splash Mountain. But with what’s going on right now where everyone in this country is trying to re-examine the way we look at racial issues, I think it’s prudent to re-examine splash Mountain and the film that it was based on. Princess and the frog is an incredible movie and I think it would fit really nicely with the ride.

    Pete is totally right, the people that created Disney world wanted it to evolve and I think this is a long overdue and natural evolution for splash Mountain.
    The movie is offensive to SOME people, just to be clear. Disney did the right thing in taking it out of circulation. I worked closely with a black guy for several years. He said his kids 2 favorite attractions were Tower of Terror and Splash Mountain. As a matter of fact, he bought a T-Shirt at Splash Mountain for his daughter that accidently got left behind at a Disney Bus stop on their way back to their resort. He ask me if I'd buy a replacement shirt for her on our trip we had planned a couple of months later, which I did. That offence taken by a few people doesn't translate to the attraction, because they're two completely different things. At some point in time, this political correctness and Identity politics is going to have to end.
     
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    Briar Patch Home

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2020
    Not sure why you are getting so hyped up about this. This is an offensive movie to black and brown people. Period. As others have pointed out Disney has known about this problematic film for a while but, yes, most people don’t think about that while riding splash Mountain. But with what’s going on right now where everyone in this country is trying to re-examine the way we look at racial issues, I think it’s prudent to re-examine splash Mountain and the film that it was based on. Princess and the frog is an incredible movie and I think it would fit really nicely with the ride.

    Pete is totally right, the people that created Disney world wanted it to evolve and I think this is a long overdue and natural evolution for splash Mountain.
    Pete is totally wrong - Pete loves the new Parks President. The new Pres. needs to go back to California, because he failed his first true test. Also, this is John's favorite attraction in all of WDW, or at least is use to be. Not sure why I'm getting so hyped up about this? Because the attraction is absolutely perfect to me. This will take away one of the main reasons I enjoy fighting the crowds and going to the Magic Kingdom or even WDW for that matter.
     
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    Jennasis

    DIS life goes on
    Joined
    Jun 11, 2000
    Just because something isn't offensive to you or me or anyone we know, doesn't mean it passes the "not offensive" (or offensive enough to be changed) test. Disney has decided to change the ride. It is their property, their IP, and their prerogative to do so. We can bemoan its loss, but it will not stop it from happening. No matter how many threads we start or worthless change.org petitions are started.

    It is my favorite ride in all of WDW, but we have plenty of memories of our rides on it. Plenty of photos and ride through videos. I look forward to making new memories on the new attraction.
     

    neurosx1983

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Nov 16, 2019
    The movie is offensive to SOME people, just to be clear. Disney did the right thing in taking it out of circulation. I worked closely with a black guy for several years. He said his kids 2 favorite attractions were Tower of Terror and Splash Mountain. As a matter of fact, he bought a T-Shirt at Splash Mountain for his daughter that accidently got left behind at a Disney Bus stop on their way back to their resort. He ask me if I'd buy a replacement shirt for her on our trip we had planned a couple of months later, which I did. That offence taken by a few people doesn't translate to the attraction, because they're two completely different things. At some point in time, this political correctness and Identity politics is going to have to end.
    Well I guess since you know “a black guy” I guess that makes you the authority on what is and isn’t offensive to certain ethnic groups.

    It absolutely is identity politics and I think it’s ok for some things to change. We shouldn’t have to have a ride anymore at WDW based on a fringe movie from decades ago that has been kept in the vault because of how outrageous it’s depictions of black people are. Princess and the frog is awesome, more kids know it and the characters and as some have suggested on this thread, the drop at the end will still be there...
     

    Briar Patch Home

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2020
    Well I guess since you know “a black guy” I guess that makes you the authority on what is and isn’t offensive to certain ethnic groups.

    It absolutely is identity politics and I think it’s ok for some things to change. We shouldn’t have to have a ride anymore at WDW based on a fringe movie from decades ago that has been kept in the vault because of how outrageous it’s depictions of black people are. Princess and the frog is awesome, more kids know it and the characters and as some have suggested on this thread, the drop at the end will still be there...
    1) "Well I guess since you know "a black guy" I guess that make you the authority" - Well no. You were painting with a pretty broad brush that all black and brown people are offended.
    2) "We shouldn't have to have a ride any more at WDW based on a fringe movie" - Guess you're not getting it. It's not about the movie at all.
    3) "More kids know it and the characters" - A matter of opinion.
    4) "the drop at the end will still be there" - The drop has little to do with how great the ride is. It all begins with the uplifting music. What makes a great Disney attraction and or movie, starts with the music. You can tell how much effort Disney puts into a movie and wants it to succeed. Look at how much time and money they spend on the music, ie Lion King. The Princess and the Frog is just an average Disney movie and the music is below average. That says a lot.
    I will say this. Disney has been itching to do away with animatronics because of the operating expense and a golden opportunity has fallen in their lap to possible get rid of a few.
    I will also say that rides shouldn't be based on movies period. Johnnie Dep needs to go at Pirates and Blue People at AK is a horrible theme.
     
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    OppR2nist

    Grim Grinning Ghost Out to Socialize...
    Joined
    Jun 26, 2020
    Here's something that occurred to me. How many people were angry when Dixie Landings became Port Orleans Riverside? I'll answer that for you: not many, if any.
     





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