Simple cost comparison: DDP vs TIW

[Tara]

I decided to look at dining costs for our split stay and see if DDP would work out to be a better deal for us. Here are the factors:

• 4 adults, 2 children (ages 8 and 2)
• 2 adults/8yo is my family, 2 adults/2yo is my sister's family.
• Dinners planned at Tusker House (breakfast), Chef Mickey's (dinner) and CRT (breakfast)*
• These meals are all in the first split of our stay - 3 nights/4 days.
• We don't really do counter service in our family, though my sister and her family might, though they're likely to share a meal as a snack
• All other meals will be in room and we'll do a combination of buying snacks in the park and bringing some with us. (this is our usual pattern)

"Retail" cost of meals = $500 (with tax and tip)

DDP = $540

Cost of meals with TIW discount included = $400

So that means we'd pay $140 more for DDP and would likely never use the CS credits, or certainly not enough to have some money wasted. The snack credits would get used to some degree, but would be more than we'd use during those 3 nights/4 days.

Everyone is different, so just take this as one data point. For me, it really brings home the value of TIW! It also is a good example of how poor a value 2 credit meals can be. I've always thought this was the case, but the 2 credit breakfast buffet is a particularly poor value.

*I wouldn't normally do all three of these buffets, but 2 were special requests (1 from my sister, 1 from my son), plus it gives us easy character interaction.

 

[vicki_c]

I did the same thing for our last trip and it was just about even between the DDP and our TiW card (which we already had). Had we had to purchase the card for that trip, the DDP would have had a slight advantage. But with a slight advantage, I still wouldn't do the DDP.

I like the flexibility of the TiW card. I would have to be saving really serious money to pick the DDP over the TiW card.

 

[BCV23]

I did the same thing for our last trip and it was just about even between the DDP and our TiW card (which we already had). Had we had to purchase the card for that trip, the DDP would have had a slight advantage. But with a slight advantage, I still wouldn't do the DDP.

I like the flexibility of the TiW card. I would have to be saving really serious money to pick the DDP over the TiW card.

I agree with everything you've said especially with the basic DDP. I do think the deluxe still can offer real savings but the flexibility of TiW is wonderful. Of course, one can use both which we have done.

Tara, I get different numbers than you. I find the cost of DDP to be $512.85? The cost of the meals is $507.53 plus gratuity for Tusker House and Chef Mickey (and tax for CM???). So the DDP would actually be cheaper if my quick math is close to accurate and if you could actually get those three meals in your plan. But a three night stay only affords 3 TS credits not four. So you're right that the DDP is not a good fit based on your meals. Using TS for breakfast and for that matter any buffet is not the best bang for credits.

The cost of the meals with TiW is also more than $400. 18% gratuity will be added to the cost of TH and CM meals (gratuity is already included at CRT according to the site I checked). And as Vicki pointed out, the card itself is $75 more unless you already have it, of course.

 

[Tara]

Tara, I get different numbers than you. I find the cost of DDP to be $512.85?

You know what, I used 2010 prices, so what I posted is off. Using 2009 it is $512.

The cost of the meals is $507.53 plus gratuity for Tusker House and Chef Mickey (and tax for CM???). So the DDP would actually be cheaper if my quick math is close to accurate and if you could actually get those three meals in your plan. But a three night stay only affords 3 TS credits not four. So you're right that the DDP is not a good fit based on your meals. Using TS for breakfast and for that matter any buffet is not the best bang for credits.

DUH. This is what happens when you do a spreadsheet and then come back to it days later. I remember now that after I spent all that time plugging in the prices and formulas that I realized I wouldn't have enough credits anyway. Of course, I let a few days pass and completely forgot about my "a ha" moment! I guess I was mentally trying to give the DDP even more of a chance just to be fair! Of course, to cover CRT I'd have to have another night for the plan, adding another $170 to the cost but not extracting any more value.

The cost of the meals with TiW is also more than $400. 18% gratuity will be added to the cost of TH and CM meals (gratuity is already included at CRT according to the site I checked).

I already included 18% gratuity and tax in my calculations on the retail cost of the meals and the TIW version of the calculations. What number are you getting?

ETA - after looking again, I see the cost I calculated for CRT using TIW is about $8 more than the cost CRO gave me. Maybe the CRO quote doesn't include the tax? I'm not sure.

And as Vicki pointed out, the card itself is $75 more unless you already have it, of course.

We already have the card from 2 trips ago, back when it was just $60. It's long since paid for itself.

 

[MCazer]

What is a TIW card? And can a New Yorker buy one or is it a FL resident thing? DDP is not good for us, as technically my kids are adults, they just don't ear enough to pay so much.

 

[JimC]

TIW is Tables in Wonderland (formerly DDE or Disney Dining Experience). It is available to Florida residents and annual passholders.

 

[BCV23]

Tara, I didn't calculate the exact cost with TiW because it was easy to see with your number of $500. I found the cost of the meals to be $507 which does include gratuity at CRT but not the other two restaurants if the prices I saw online are accurate. Let's round that to your original $500. 20% discount brings it to $400 but then you must add the automatic discount of 18%. To make it simple (and because I don't have my little sheet with the calculations in front of me), let's pretend gratuity was not included at CRT. That would add $90 to your total making it $490. Your cost will be somewhat lower since gratuity is already included at CRT.

Wow, was TiW still $60 at this time last year? When did the price increase, do you recall? The part that really kills me now is the cost of a second card. Boo I say.

 

[Simba's Mom]

Also, am I correct that the TIW has an expiration date of (at least) one year from the date you purchase it? So, unlike the DDP, and like the AP, if you work it right, you may benefit from it on 2 WDW trips. I'm planning to buy mine next week. Then, DH and I will make another trip in April/May. Although we'd have to purchase the DDP all new again, the TIW would still be good on that trip, And then, if we plan it right for attending the F&W festival again next October-Boy, sounds like this TIW card could really be a good buy!

 

[BCV23]

Also, am I correct that the TIW has an expiration date of (at least) one year from the date you purchase it? So, unlike the DDP, and like the AP, if you work it right, you may benefit from it on 2 WDW trips. I'm planning to buy mine next week. Then, DH and I will make another trip in April/May. Although we'd have to purchase the DDP all new again, the TIW would still be good on that trip, And then, if we plan it right for attending the F&W festival again next October-Boy, sounds like this TIW card could really be a good buy!

Absolutely. We typically are able to use it for 3 or 4 trips/card.

You actually get more than a year. When you buy next week, your card will probably expire on 11/30/10. Very sweet. It is a great discount.

However, we have been able to save even more than the 20% offered by TiW using the Deluxe DDP and the DDP itself back when it included appetizers.

 

[nu2dvc]

Hi! I've been trying to figure out this TIW card, since we will be buying AP's for the first time this year. I always assumed it was good for 1 year, like the AP. But PP mentioned it being good for 2 years (through 2011) Was that a typo or is it really a 2-year deal? If so, that is pretty sweet

 

[Tara]

Tara, I didn't calculate the exact cost with TiW because it was easy to see with your number of $500. I found the cost of the meals to be $507 which does include gratuity at CRT but not the other two restaurants if the prices I saw online are accurate. Let's round that to your original $500. 20% discount brings it to $400 but then you must add the automatic discount of 18%. To make it simple (and because I don't have my little sheet with the calculations in front of me), let's pretend gratuity was not included at CRT. That would add $90 to your total making it $490. Your cost will be somewhat lower since gratuity is already included at CRT.

I did include the tip in the retail total as well, but you and I are coming up with different numbers. Here are the retail prices I'm working with:
CRT - $47.23/$31.05 (includes tax/tip) - price from All Ears
Chef Mickey's - $29.99/$14.99 + tax/tip - price from All Ears
Tusker House - $19.99/$10.99 + tax/tip - price from DIS

I noticed I forgot to change the CRT cost to the retail on my spreadsheet, not the TIW price. So it's 18% too low (or thereabouts) and that error rolls into the TIW calculation. In any case, I corrected it and still get different numbers. They might be a hair off still since I calculated the tip on the discounted total, but now that I think about it, the tip maybe calculated on the non-discounted total. Here's what I get:

Wow, was TiW still $60 at this time last year? When did the price increase, do you recall? The part that really kills me now is the cost of a second card. Boo I say.

I don't know when the price increase was - it was sometime between November 2008 and March 2009, though. But yeah, the second card price is pretty outrageous. I've lost mine and I'm probably just going to pay $25 more to buy a new membership - I figure 13 months for $75 is better than $50 for 1 month. (And I need mine since my husband has to go home early and I won't be able to use his.)

Even at $75, I still think it's a good deal, though!

 

[BCV23]

Hi! I've been trying to figure out this TIW card, since we will be buying AP's for the first time this year. I always assumed it was good for 1 year, like the AP. But PP mentioned it being good for 2 years (through 2011) Was that a typo or is it really a 2-year deal? If so, that is pretty sweet

Totally a typo. Sorry. I corrected my post. I remember thinking how cool 11/30/11 looked!

It is a very nice discount card for those who often dine in full service WDW restaurants.

 

[BCV23]

Tara, I dug out my little sheet. For some reason, I had six adults dining at Chef Mickey's. Sorry. Or maybe you're planning on inviting 2 more and didn't know it.

I am still confused about CRT. Are you saying the $168 was the quote you received? I don't know how it could be that low, do you?

I think the 18% is calculated on the original cost. It should be at any rate.

I know what you mean about the second TiW card. We've had two since AP holders could purchase them. But $50 is just nuts I think. Everyone is being penalized because some people abuse it. I wish they would require drivers licenses or some proof when TiW is purchased instead. We needed to buy a new card last month and for the first time, we purchased only one. Now some of our plans look like it might make sense to get another one. I think we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Like you, it might make sense to just buy a second membership for my DH in January. Then I would not renew mine next Fall.

 

[Tara]

Tara, I dug out my little sheet. For some reason, I had six adults dining at Chef Mickey's. Sorry. Or maybe you're planning on inviting 2 more and didn't know it.

Believe me, with all the people who want us to come see them just cause we're in town, that's a possibility! But no, just 4 adults, 1 kid and toddler under 3.

I am still confused about CRT. Are you saying the $168 was the quote you received? I don't know how it could be that low, do you?

Yes, that's what they quoted me. $167.20, to be exact. If I take the CRT price with tax and tip of $219 and subtract 20%, that comes to $175, so it's not that far off - just $7.

 

[Tara]

You actually get more than a year. When you buy next week, your card will probably expire on 11/30/10. Very sweet. It is a great discount.

Yes - we bought ours on 11/19/08 (I think) and it expires on 12/31/09. Good deal.

 

[Tiger926]

Good amount of math there - makes my head hurt - LOL!

I wouldn't say this is an apples to apples comparison though, as you wouldn't use the CS meals, nor the snacks. So, the TIW card would be best for you right from the start, as you wouldn't use more than 50% of the DP (CS and snacks). Disney calculates those products into the price of the DP, so it's good you did the numbers, but with not using that much of the package, your values will most definitely change.

We like the DP better as we find more savings with it over TIW - we don't care for CS meals, but we can make do as we only eat at a few of the better ones (Earl of Sandwich, Wolfgang, Cosmic Rays), and we need the snacks as we go in July for 2 weeks each summer. With TIW, we don't get a discount on snacks, and we don't care for the automatic tip (you would be subject to that anyway, as you have a big party).

It's interesting to see how everyone's math stacks up. We used to love TIW as we ate 2-3 TS meals per day, but over the past few years of doing both regular DP and DxDP, multiple times, we have found way more value in that. Especially since with the TIW card, we are subject to holiday surcharges, plus the cost of the card keeps going up (we do not drink alcohol at all).

The best thing about the TIW card is if someone gets sick, as lost credits wouldn't happen. Although, if someone gets sick, using room service with the DP is a perfect solution, as people should be staying in their rooms when sick anyway!

Thanks for sharing this. Happy eating, Tiger

 

[Tara]

Good amount of math there - makes my head hurt - LOL!

I wouldn't say this is an apples to apples comparison though, as you wouldn't use the CS meals, nor the snacks. So, the TIW card would be best for you right from the start, as you wouldn't use more than 50% of the DP (CS and snacks). Disney calculates those products into the price of the DP, so it's good you did the numbers, but with not using that much of the package, your values will most definitely change.

We like the DP better as we find more savings with it over TIW - we don't care for CS meals, but we can make do as we only eat at a few of the better ones (Earl of Sandwich, Wolfgang, Cosmic Rays), and we need the snacks as we go in July for 2 weeks each summer. With TIW, we don't get a discount on snacks, and we don't care for the automatic tip (you would be subject to that anyway, as you have a big party).

It's interesting to see how everyone's math stacks up. We used to love TIW as we ate 2-3 TS meals per day, but over the past few years of doing both regular DP and DxDP, multiple times, we have found way more value in that. Especially since with the TIW card, we are subject to holiday surcharges, plus the cost of the card keeps going up (we do not drink alcohol at all).

The best thing about the TIW card is if someone gets sick, as lost credits wouldn't happen. Although, if someone gets sick, using room service with the DP is a perfect solution, as people should be staying in their rooms when sick anyway!

Thanks for sharing this. Happy eating, Tiger

Yeah - I agree in principle, though I wouldn't characterize CS as 50% of the dining plan given the value of those meals compared to the value of TS. In fact, I tend to think of the CS meals and snack as "free" - buy a $40 meal each day and get a snack and fast food meal for free.

For this trip alone, TIW wouldn't have made as much sense as previous trips, although DDP probably wouldn't have either - I should compare the whole trip on DDP vs retail of the planned meals. We usually do 1-2 buffets max in a week, 2-3 TS/signature restaurants and the rest is in-room dining. Every once in a while we'll have CS, but not very often. For those trips that are more our norm, TIW works out well because we would run a credit or 2 short with DDP but would have too many credits with DxDP. And because this comparison only includes buffets, our typical preferences don't skew the results, but at non-buffets, the difference would be greater as we tend to order appetizers and sizes (like veggie sides that don't come with steak at Le Cellier) and skip desserts.

Related to the getting sick scenario, the other thing I like about TIW is that if we decide we want to skip a planned meal, I don't feel like we're wasting money. 9 times out of 10 I'll choose wasting money over simply eating because the food is there/available, but I don't like putting myself in that position, IYKWIM.

But you're right - no matter what costs the spreadsheet shows, finding VALUE is a unique equation that likely can't be replicated from person to person and family to family.

 

[Tiger926]

Yeah - I agree in principle, though I wouldn't characterize CS as 50% of the dining plan given the value of those meals compared to the value of TS. In fact, I tend to think of the CS meals and snack as "free" - buy a $40 meal each day and get a snack and fast food meal for free.

For this trip alone, TIW wouldn't have made as much sense as previous trips, although DDP probably wouldn't have either - I should compare the whole trip on DDP vs retail of the planned meals. We usually do 1-2 buffets max in a week, 2-3 TS/signature restaurants and the rest is in-room dining. Every once in a while we'll have CS, but not very often. For those trips that are more our norm, TIW works out well because we would run a credit or 2 short with DDP but would have too many credits with DxDP. And because this comparison only includes buffets, our typical preferences don't skew the results, but at non-buffets, the difference would be greater as we tend to order appetizers and sizes (like veggie sides that don't come with steak at Le Cellier) and skip desserts.

Related to the getting sick scenario, the other thing I like about TIW is that if we decide we want to skip a planned meal, I don't feel like we're wasting money. 9 times out of 10 I'll choose wasting money over simply eating because the food is there/available, but I don't like putting myself in that position, IYKWIM.

But you're right - no matter what costs the spreadsheet shows, finding VALUE is a unique equation that likely can't be replicated from person to person and family to family.

That is an interesting way to look at it, but if you do that, then you are overpaying for that TS meal in most cases. I would say that between CS and snack, that is for sure 50% of the package.

I'm glad you were able to find a dining style that suited your family!

Have a great trip, Tiger

 

[Sammie]

KIW works for some, DDP works for others, both can save you money depending on your preference for meals, snacks etc.

It is always a good idea to evaluate these dining options based on personal preference.

I don't think one is better than the other in general non specific terms and agree with the OP and Tiger926 in that you have to compare how it affects your personal choices.

Actually neither work for us which is fine and as it should be, choices are always good.