Should family holiday truants be targeted?

[Olaf]

Could they really do this? There is absolutely no way this would ever fly in the states. The school doesn't like it and they wag their finger at us, but I don't think they have the authority to issue a fine. My son is very young and we can still get away with this. Once he's in 5th or 6th grade, there's so much to make up that it's pointless.


BBC

 

[signtalker]

This is the very first time we have actually taken our son out of school in term time. What we didnt realise was this coiencided with his SATS, after speaking to his tutor and using the booking request form that the school provides(2 weeks only in one year)although we are going for 3 weeks(3rd week is half term), the school were okay with it. It seems really bizarre in this day and age they can try and do this, summer is sooo much more expensive to go on holiday, and lets face it its only 2 weeks out of there school life!!!!!.Does this also mean that when teachers decide to take teacher training days at the drop of the hat, that this could apply to them?( I do work in education myself!!!!!!!!!)
I cant see it working myself.

Jules

 

[Goofyish]

I think they are really talking about fining the parents that take their kids out of school without permission or without the school having any prior knowledge - that is technically classed as un-authorized absense or truancy.

Parents are allowed to remove their children from school for up to 10 days per school year with permission from the school. We have never had any problem getting permission.

I think the government should look at the way holiday companies etc. increase the price of holidays during school holidays before they start to penalise parents. Can you imagine what would happen if other goods doubled in cost just because the schools are on holiday?

 

[rob@rar.org.uk]

I think what the Government is doing is to put in place sanctions agaist parents who abuse the system by persistently taking their children out of class for inappropriate reasons. I would be surprised to see such serious action taken against parents who took their children out of school for a couple of weeks for that 'once in a lifetime' holiday. There are already sanctions in place that schools can use, and some schools already put parents under pressure not to remove their children during term time.

I'm sure the Government is also trying to give the strong message that education is so important that children should not be taken out of class unnecessarily, even for family holidays. There is the detrimental effect on the child, as well as a broader effect on the class as a whole. My partner is a teacher, so I share the frustration of having holidays restricted to the busiest, most expensive times of the year. As a school governor I'm also aware of the disruption that can be caused when a significant number of children are away from class at various times of the year. Teachers will not just ignore the children that may have missed out on something, and will invariably try to help them catch up. But when increasing numbers of children are away during term time this places unacceptable pressure on the teacher and the school to ensure a high standard of education for all pupils.

Regards

Rob

 

[rob@rar.org.uk]

On the related point of 10 days holiday per year during term time: there is some confusion about this, in the minds of many parents, teachers and school governors. There is no entitlement to 10 days holiday during term time. However, schools do have sanctions they can use if a pupil has more than 10 days unauthorised absence during term time (which ultimately can lead to the pupil being taken off school roll). This is not the same as parents being allowed to remove their children for up to 10 days, although in many schools this is the way it is interpreted.

Regards

Rob

 

[neo's white rabbit]

...and they're increasing airport tax as an added extra!

So, if you asked permission...hadn't used your 10 days yet...and they still said no...what would you do?

 

[WDWfan uk]

...like Tim, I also understood it to be unauthorised absence - taking children out of school for whatever reason...... "without permission".

As Rob points out - you can have authorised absence at the Head's discretion for up to 10 days for which you submit a form to the school a few weeks ahead of time.

 

[neo's white rabbit]

Personally I found the views expressed in Steph's link very interesting. It is one of those topics that could run and run though.... there was another thread of a similar ilk on the other Community Board.

 

[Olaf]

I agree Rabbit, I enjoyed reading all those varying opinions. However, I did rather take exception to this comment:

There needs to be flexibility. Taking the kids to Disneyland in term time may be out of order, but taking children abroad to experience other cultures is highly educational - usually much more so than being in school cramming for SATs. Schools need to be given freedom to allow parents with good motives to take their children out of school.

A wee bit elitist, wouldn't you say? Who says WDW isn't educational?

 

[rob@rar.org.uk]

I spotted that one as well! Anybody who uses their full title (he called himself "Dr Tim something") in a public discussion board like that has got to be somewhat pretentious. Pity his poor kids, because they probably get dragged around all the 'cultural' sights that kids just hate getting dragged around.

Regards

Rob

 

[neo's white rabbit]

And what's wrong with having a bit of fun anyway? Life throws enough responsibilities at you, let kids be kids once in awhile!(even if some of us have kids of our own these days )

 

[athurstance]

Whether you agree with taking kids out of school or not the new legislation doesn't need to affect anybody who just wants to take their child out of school for a family holiday as long as they have notified the school in advance and got permission.

Did you know that according to the Dept of Education only 38% of parents actually bother to ask the school in advance before they take their child out of school to go on holiday. Now that is just bad manners - no wonder the schools get annoyed. Presumably its the other 62% they are targetting with this.

 

[Mskanga]

I don't know how it works in the UK or any other overseas country , but I can tell you that ever since I can remember my children's school has a policy where the children can not have anymore than 21 authorized absences , that does not include days where the children were sick. I have taken the children out of school for 7 school days at a time and the school knew exactly where we were going, they call it educational trips and if they feel that the child is going to gain something from the trip , they will approve but it also has to do with how the child is doing academically through the year. I have never had a problem taking my children out of school but honestly I see parents taking the children out of school when their grades are terrible and they just don't care. In our school district they take parents to court for such actions.
I took my children out of school last year to go to Spain to visit with my family and we had no problems at all , I take them out every year to go to WDW and again no problems at all, but then again my children's grades are all A's and B's and never miss school unless they are sick and have never been late arriving to school, so the school basically would have no grounds to deny the time off. If they have any kind of tests around the time we are gone, they re-schedule those tests for the children that are gone or will be gone, the difference is they may get their report card a few days later but that's it.

 

[Astrid]

I generally take my two out of school for our trips to WDW, however I always fill out the form to apply for this absence and it has always been agreed. One year I took three weeks out and this was still authorised.

However, I am astonished at how many parents in my daughters school (where I am a Governor) take their children out of school without authorisation. There are only 86 children in the school and yet many parents don't think twice about just keeping their children off school because they 'want a day off'. A child in my daughters class is regularly kept off school because she doesn't feel like it or her brother has an inset day. Her mother really doesn't care! I feel these are the people that need to be targetted.

I have seen in Southampton police and Educational Welfare Officers stopping parents who are shopping with their children and asking them why the children are there and checking their list of schools with inset days. I think this is the best deterrent.

Our headteacher is more than happy to allow children to have their 10 days authorised absence if the correct forms are completed and she feels it is a good reason and it does not conflict with exams. However, the number of unauthorised absenses looks dreadful when Ofsted comes a knocking and that is what we as a governing body are trying hard to combat.

Astrid

 

[TraceyL]

I've taken DD1 out of school for the odd day here and there but the school has been fine with it. I've always sent a note in beforehand explaining when she was going to be away but have never been asked to fill a request form in I don't think they'd object as my usual 'excuse' is that its related to DH being away so much - lets hope they're as understanding when I want to take her out for 2 weeks this autumn - DH doesn't get to chose his leave !

 

[KiwiSue]

Actually if you read the full newspaper articles about the parents who are being prosecuted for their children being taken out of school, you will see it really only applies to children persistently being truant. In all cases they were given a final warning and then '12 weeks to improve their attendance' before the decision was taken to prosecute. So I think the parents who apparently took their children to WDW for a month must have also been pretty bad attendees at school anyhow to warrent prosecution. I think the government is making a big song and dance about kids being taken away for holidays but I think this is really the tip of the iceberg and the main concern is just a huge amount of kids who cannot be bothered going to school, with parents who cannot be bothered to send them. My choice is simple. Either we take out kids out of school for a holiday, or we simply cannot afford a holiday. I like to think I am a responsible parent (some may disagree!) but for my sanity I need a holiday to look forward to, and I simply try to time it so that it will be of a minimum disruption to my son's schooling. I will continue to do this while he continues to do well at school. If he starts having problems, then I will not hesitate to cancel any holiday plans.

 

[SidB]

I've just taken my 2 daughters out of school for a week to visit
Florida and have no problem with this. I discussed this at some length with my wife and we chose to do this for several reasons. My eldest has just finished her 11+ exams and needed a break to recharge her batteries. The pressure placed on primary school children is ridiculous. In my time (god that makes me sound old) there was far less push-push pressure placed on schools. My youngest daughter is only in year 2. During the time away she had attention from her parents and her grandmother 24/7, who all read to her, and listened to her read. We also encouraged her to write a diary daily.

Neither my wife or I find it easy to take time off during the summer holidays. I wouldn't want to travel to Florida at that time of year because of the heat, humidity and danger from too much sun.

At the last school my children attended Ofsted commented on the number of children taken out of school for months in order to visit their "home country". This was far more disruptive to the entire classes education.

Perhaps the education authorities need to examine the options with regard to school holidays. Surely a seven week summer break is far more disruptive to a childs education than a week or 2 every couple of years for a trip abroad for the whole family.

 

[cheryl.UK]

As a teacher, I have mixed views on this. I can totally sympathise with parents who would not be able to afford holidays if they had to go in term time. I know only too well the cost of having to go during the school holidays

BUT, what does annoy me are parents who:

* don't let us know in advance. If we know we can plan for it and make sure the kids have catch up work
* go on 3 or 4 holidays per year sending in a note to say their child was 'ill'. Do we seem that stupid!
* go just before major exams (even GCSE's!)
*go during exam times. SATs and GCSE's are at the same time every year. All parents need to do is ask the school, even 2 years in advance. With the aid of a calendar and knowledge of when the May bank holidays are, its easy to do. (One parent booked a holiday during the GCSE's and asked if their child could do it when they got back!!!???)


or, worst of all..

parents who go at at the beginning of the school year. Some kids take until Xmas to get over this! They miss out on the induction days, their timetable, the start of new topics in EVERY subject, base line testing e.g. reading tests CATs tests, seating plans etc . But, perhaps more importantly, they can be excluded from social groupings which have bonded in their absence. At the beginning of the year when they may be with a different group for many subjects this is particularly important and causes a lot of upset for the child.

The government have asked schools to crack down on parents who persist in taking kids out of school, especially those with an attndance rate of 85% or less. In these cases the advice to the head is to refuse permisssion and report parents to the Education Welfare Officer. Parents can be prosecuted for willfully keeping students away from school, even if it's only once! It hasn't happened in the past but new measures are being brought in which will not only allow but encourage it.