Serious question: if you didnt save enough or run out of retirement money...

[tvguy]

Except in this free society, those consequences become some one else's burden. People want to work their whole lives and not save, claiming free choice, but then cry "I've worked hard my whole life ans I deserve someone to take care of me now that I can't work" and in our society we help them. We don't let our elderly starve to death or go homeless. But the younger generation ends up picking up the tab.

Yes, they can become someone else's burden. I don't have an answer just frustration with people who freeload. It's not just retirement, our entire bankruptcy system needs an overhaul too. We need to protect those who face catastrophic expenses due to things like medical emergencies, while forcing others to understand that putting their money towards retirement is better choice that have a $25,000 boat, a $50,000 RV and a $50,000 truck to pull it, and a $35,000 Jeep to go off roading.

 

[Pamlur]

I have a question about a widow's SS being cut in half. Before my husband's death, I was able to draw 50% of the amount he drew, but after his death I am drawing 100% of what he would have been able to draw (he hadn't actually started drawing any). How are people having their benefits cut in half? Maybe there is something in there that I don't see, but please explain to me. Thanks.

 

[amberpi]

Yes, they can become someone else's burden. I don't have an answer just frustration with people who freeload. It's not just retirement, our entire bankruptcy system needs an overhaul too. We need to protect those who face catastrophic expenses due to things like medical emergencies, while forcing others to understand that putting their money towards retirement is better choice that have a $25,000 boat, a $50,000 RV and a $50,000 truck to pull it, and a $35,000 Jeep to go off roading.

Being incredibly, incredibly blessed and paying for full freight private payer high quality insurance, I still have no idea how people do it with major medical bills. I've written checks for over 60k in the last year in medical bills. Who has that in a slush fund? I did, but its so very rare. It still hurts and that was just 10& of my costs and because of a freak issue. This could have killed normal families. Not to mention the lost wages. I didn't have a boat or RV but I could have easily thought I could afford it...and then WHAM, I wouldn't have been able. I get how people file bankruptcy. I just know how darned blessed I am to not have to face that and to still be on this side of the ground. We can't make judgments on what people should have done at x time when things were better. Or, I can't. I know how lucky I am that my issues didn't, hasn't, and won't change my life in the long term and that I can still live as I always have in the short term. No one can prepare for everything.

 

[tvguy]

Being incredibly, incredibly blessed and paying for full freight private payer high quality insurance, I still have no idea how people do it with major medical bills. I've written checks for over 60k in the last year in medical bills. Who has that in a slush fund? I did, but its so very rare. It still hurts and that was just 10& of my costs and because of a freak issue. This could have killed normal families. Not to mention the lost wages. I didn't have a boat or RV but I could have easily thought I could afford it...and then WHAM, I wouldn't have been able. I get how people file bankruptcy. I just know how darned blessed I am to not have to face that and to still be on this side of the ground. We can't make judgments on what people should have done at x time when things were better. Or, I can't. I know how lucky I am that my issues didn't, hasn't, and won't change my life in the long term and that I can still live as I always have in the short term. No one can prepare for everything.

Only thing I disagree with is making judgments on what people should have done. I think it is a reasonable to feel that way if in exercising to their rights, you infringe on my rights. Your $60,000 figure is interesting....about the cost of a diesel pickup to pull an RV.

 

[amberpi]

Only thing I disagree with is making judgments on what people should have done. I think it is a reasonable to feel that way if in exercising to their rights, you infringe on my rights. Your $60,000 figure is interesting....about the cost of a diesel pickup to pull an RV.

I wasn't saying that it was the same amount. I don't give a rat's behind about that crap. Not me, not crap I want, it would have been reasonable for me to buy such - I could afford it. My house is far too big and I barely drive the cars I own.

I do reserve judgment on people though. I really don't even know what to say to that.

 

[tzolkin]

I'm not sure that's anyone's dream. I'm just a hair too old to be a millennial and most of my friends spent their 20s working low-wage service jobs, usually more than one at a time, paying back student loans and living with roommates or parents. Their negative savings rate wasn't because of rampant consumerism; it was because they couldn't find jobs that pay enough to live on, much less save on. Few of us have 401k matches. None have pensions. But it is hard to worry about retirement savings when there's a Edison shut-off notice in the mail or an insurance rate hike that threatens your ability to afford the car that gets you to work. And the backhanded generational insults, that younger generations are irresponsible because they're not saving when can't afford rent on their own at the ages our parents and grandparents were buying homes and starting families is a bit ridiculous. It ignores every broad economic trend of the last 40 years - stagnant overall wages, health care and housing dramatically outpacing inflation, education costs skyrocketing at the same time post-secondary credentials have become essential to being even lower middle class, etc. - and puts everything down to individual choices, as though if gen X and the millennials were just smarter or less selfish we'd have robust wage growth, affordable health care, and no need for student loans.

I put "dream" in quotes sarcastically.

And, I'm not an older person making "backhanded generational insults". I technically fall into the millennial category. I was just using statistics that divided savings rates into those age groups. My point was that people from all ages are not saving enough to comfortably fund their retirements. If you're 55 and only saving 5% (like the statistic I cited)-- that's too little. It wasn't a jab at millennials.

I never said that I believe that this generation is inherently more irresponsible than those before. My grandparents are actually a big contributing influence to why I think it's so important to save. They were always "keeping up with the Joneses" and then retired too early with no savings. My parents have been at least partially financially responsible for them almost as long as I have been alive and my dad will need to delay his own retirement (a minimum 15 years from now) because my grandparents failed to save. My mom does not work and her entire life is devoted to caring for my grandparents (who are actually in better physical health than she is). I refuse to ever do that to my children. So, despite all the economic trends you mentioned that are stacked against my generation, my husband and I have made saving for our retirement a priority.

 

[Hisgirl]

We are a unique generation. My parents, who are mid-80s, grew up in a time when there was a grandparent living in each household. Families took in kinfolk who needed help. And...people weren't routinely living into their 90s. Mid 70s was very typical.

The life expectancy has risen, people's savings' capacity has dwindled, and consumer costs have risen. All of this melds together to create a ticking time bomb that is set to blow up in the faces of 72 million baby boomers very soon.

I am a financial counselor by trade and have worked within communities for 25 years. I have never seen such low savings rates as I am seeing now. Every family is driving two new cars, kids are fully entertained with camps, expensive tennis shoes and new mac computers, but mom and dad have no retirement.

This is a very frightening foundation we are laying. I tell young folks to save for 40-year-old you. They can't picture being 65.

New builders are beginning to create houses for the sandwich generation, one that will allow for three generations under one roof. We may be going back to how things were done in the olden days.

 

[Skippy918]

I have a question about a widow's SS being cut in half. Before my husband's death, I was able to draw 50% of the amount he drew, but after his death I am drawing 100% of what he would have been able to draw (he hadn't actually started drawing any). How are people having their benefits cut in half? Maybe there is something in there that I don't see, but please explain to me. Thanks.

Before fil died, he was getting his SS check and MIL was getting her check. When he passed, she could still take her check or his slightly higher amount but not both, hence the income getting cut in half. They were both 70 when he died.
My friend's mom is in a similar boat after her stepdad died. Her SS check is much lower and now her mom has to move in with her because her check doesn't even cover the rent. She said her mom's check is less than $1000 per month. The step-siblings blew all the money that was meant to help out her mom.

 

[mummabear]

The step-siblings blew all the money that was meant to help out her mom.

There can be two sides to that. Step-Siblings also have a right to their fathers money, parents need to protect the inhertience they want to leave for their kids from their step parents as well (I dont mean this in an evil way but my father ended up with no inhertience after his father died, mother remarried, she dies and the 2nd husband now has a new girlfriend and all the money)

 

[piccolopat]

This isn't true for everyone. A lot of people have no money to save after cost of living expenses. Commuting home from work right now but can update this later with data & sources.

This may be true but a recent report came out that said low income people spend 40% of their money on "luxuries" which I really think means other than basic necessities. If this is true, helping people learn to make better financial decisions could help them start to save even a little bit.

 

[ThistleMae]

MY mother saved and is doing well. My dad spent instead of saved so is still working 50+ hours/week at 75.

This is so sad. I guess he's lucky he can still work at 75. I'm sure he gets tired.

 

[ThistleMae]

One of the issues is that everything keeps going up in cost but retirement income does not go up. This year there was no Cola raise for those on Social Security, they said because the cost of fuel going down. But this doesn't account for the cost of everything else going up, or for folks whose heat is included in their rent, and I'm sure landlords didn't reduce the rents because of this! The other issue is the cost of health insurance, and that doesn't go down. We keep getting less and less coverage for more and more money, while retirement income is fixed. I am retired and the cost of my health insurance keeps increasing thereby reducing how much I have to spend on necessities. It does force you to think about alternatives other than the original plan you had in your mind about when you retire. I want to stay in my home but this may not end up happening. And I did plan. But so many things have gone up in price and will continue to go up in price. It's a very challenging prospect.

 

[mjkacmom]

Super impressed by your granddaughters home purchase! Where I live the median cost of a home is $250k and rising, and this is supposed to be a more affordable portion of the country.

It's $370,000 here, with the median property tax $10,000. We can always move after retirement.

 

[ThistleMae]

It's $370,000 here, with the median property tax $10,000. We can always move after retirement.

Insane!

 

[ThistleMae]

These days, if you have a family, both parents have to work. Daycare is a nightmare, unless you find exactly the right one, and this can be a revolving door if things change. When I was young and had a family, I couldn't afford to save. Once the kids left the nest I put every penny I could into retirement. I've been lucky enough to make a good job choice and have a modest pension, plus my savings. It isn't easy, but I'm doing okay. Even if you start saving late, it's better than not saving at all. And...and this is the biggy...I can go on more than one vacation a year, including Disney. Now, I may not be able to afford Poly, but POP will do. It's about making smart choices, and being happy with less luxurious accommodations.

 

[dish rag]

This is so sad. I guess he's lucky he can still work at 75. I'm sure he gets tired.

I don't find it sad really. The desire and the need to retire is really a new concept when you look at the history of man. Still in many areas people just don't strive to retire. Farmers for example never really retire. Really it's just this current generation of older people that have pensions and the ability to stop working early. I think that in the next very few decades retirement with big pensions and savings will be gone. My own dad retired at 60 and is now in his 80's. I am in my mid 50's, am lucky that I have a very wealthy wife who has been "retired" since her early 30's. She's begging me to quit working, I won't, I work a lot, I love what I do and see no reason to sit around and do nothing. With out her though, I would need to work a long time yet and really wouldn't mind.

 

[ThistleMae]

I don't find it sad really. The desire and the need to retire is really a new concept when you look at the history of man. Still in many areas people just don't strive to retire. Farmers for example never really retire. Really it's just this current generation of older people that have pensions and the ability to stop working early. I think that in the next very few decades retirement with big pensions and savings will be gone. My own dad retired at 60 and is now in his 80's. I am in my mid 50's, am lucky that I have a very wealthy wife who has been "retired" since her early 30's. She's begging me to quit working, I won't, I work a lot, I love what I do and see no reason to sit around and do nothing. With out her though, I would need to work a long time yet and really wouldn't mind.

Well, I still think it's sad, especially if he starts to have health issues. Some people are in considerable pain as they age, arthritis and such, and have to slog through the day. I don't like to see anyone suffer. And maybe this isn't the case for him, either way, I think it's hard on folks.

 

[adelaster]

It's $370,000 here, with the median property tax $10,000. We can always move after retirement.

Man! If you don't mind me asking, how did she accomplish that? I'd love to have a place someday, but I fear the "perfect life path" ship sailed around age eighteen. That's a gigantic down payment and a colossal mortgage on top of those property taxes.

 

[adelaster]

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2016/12/17/this-was-the-average-american-in-2016.aspx

So this article has some interesting figures, although their estimation of average household income seems high to me. Or maybe I'm just poor.

At any rate, the other figures are intriguing. I'm in the 25-34 range. I have between $30-40k in student debt. My car will be paid off next fall. I pay other things off monthly - carry no balance on any cards and don't have interest on them. I don't have a morgage or any health debt at the moment.

If I stay with my current employer or one on the same state plan, I will have about $62k in 2040 cashout at 55, or a $3,769 monthly lifetime pension. I am looking at investment outside of that. If social security is around I would get that too. At any rate, my payout right now is around $35k. If things stayed as they are it might be ok, but right now it's hard to believe there will be an earth in 2040, and if there is the cost of living on it will likely be too high. Really though, 2040 does not seem like a real year!

If I kept on until 62 I'd get $4,977 monthly, or $5,556 at 65. Tempting, no? I guess it really depends on the situation at the time.

 

[shh]

"I may not be able to afford Poly, but POP will do. It's about making smart choices, and being happy with less luxurious accommodations."

This exactly. I don't want to minimize the struggle many are facing. Illness, child care costs, high food prices, housing - all are huge issues when wages (where I live) are insultingly inadequate to fund even a lower class living. Around here, renting/owning costs are ridiculous and we won't even talk about home and auto insurance, property taxes...among the highest rates nationwide. Yet the salaries are much lower on average. Most work so hard at critical jobs society needs and are still barely getting by.

But having said that, I also see a lot of immaturity and lack of self-discipline amongst those earning decent wages. There used to be stronger caution to taking on debt; saving up for desired items or trips; pride in living within one's means.

Now it's all about "life is short" "live for today" "YOLO" "you never know what might happen" as rationale for overloading the credit cards on monorail resort ressies, dessert parties, bigger cruise cabins, new cars, premium-quality kitchens, home decor, clothing, the latest tech gizmos, etc. Whatever "I deserve".

It also cracks me up that people don't think they're going to want to enjoy life at 50, 60 or 70. Do they think they'll be sleeping in rocking chairs? Believe me, you're gonna want some play money then too! To cruise, travel, splurge on kids/grandkids....whatever. It would really suck to live it up in your '20s and '30s, then be broke at 50 or 60.