Riviera Sales by the numbers (vs CCV) for 2019 - (December added 1/16/2020)

It's the structure of the resort. Highest initial cost per point; close to highest point requirements; and close to highest maintenance fees. It's a triple whammy of expensive.

Plus, a new and huge restriction, which can only mean that DVD is entirely convinced that this is (and going to be) a flagship resort in the South end. I feel like we aren't seeing the whole picture unless it's truly all just smoke and mirrors.
 
Plus, a new and huge restriction, which can only mean that DVD is entirely convinced that this is (and going to be) a flagship resort in the South end. I feel like we aren't seeing the whole picture unless it's truly all just smoke and mirrors.
Here's the scary part...I think we are seeing the whole picture. It's expensive. It has high MFs. It has high point requirements. It is restricted if you go to resell. But most people don't look at any of that. They look at the beauty. The layout. The decor. The skyliner. The location. They look at the point chart that has studios averaging about 24 points per night and they don't think that's a lot, they think that they need to buy more points to stay there. Timeshares are an emotional purchase and DVC crushes it on emotion. Until recently they crushed it on finance and logic as well. But if I were a timeshare developer and I had to pick one, I'd pick emotion every time. It works.
 
Riviera will never be the “flagship” of DVC. If for no other reason, it has a poor location. As much as the marketing is trying to push this, the slow sales have all but confirmed this. Numbers don’t lie.
 


Here's the scary part...I think we are seeing the whole picture. It's expensive. It has high MFs. It has high point requirements. It is restricted if you go to resell. But most people don't look at any of that. They look at the beauty. The layout. The decor. The skyliner. The location. They look at the point chart that has studios averaging about 24 points per night and they don't think that's a lot, they think that they need to buy more points to stay there. Timeshares are an emotional purchase and DVC crushes it on emotion. Until recently they crushed it on finance and logic as well. But if I were a timeshare developer and I had to pick one, I'd pick emotion every time. It works.

No, they are going into the sales center with no background information, high on the "magical" trip they're presently enjoying, and being told that for only $100 a month they can stay at this beautiful resort or any of the other 14 DVC resorts for the next 50 years (50 points, 10 year loan). Just sign here...
 
No, they are going into the sales center with no background information, high on the "magical" trip they're presently enjoying, and being told that for only $100 a month they can stay at this beautiful resort or any of the other 14 DVC resorts for the next 50 years (50 points, 10 year loan). Just sign here...
Well when you put it that way, it sounds pretty good! :)
 
You and I are in the same boat on all these points. But let me say...it is a very small boat. While a large percentage of people here on the DIS feel this way, many don't. And that's just on here. I would venture a guess that out there in the real world people who share our mindset make up maybe 5-10% of the potential customer base. If I could jack up prices close to 100% and only alienate 10% of my customer base I would do it every day and twice on Sunday.
Once again... I agree.

True, but they are still going on a trip in March..I think thar Stumps me
This had me stumped, too, unless it's part of a big life event like family reunion, wedding, or maybe the trip is a wedding or other gift/reward for a family member or employee unaffected by the reason they're selling? Totally speculating.

Plus, a new and huge restriction, which can only mean that DVD is entirely convinced that this is (and going to be) a flagship resort in the South end. I feel like we aren't seeing the whole picture unless it's truly all just smoke and mirrors.
No, they are going into the sales center with no background information, high on the "magical" trip they're presently enjoying, and being told that for only $100 a month they can stay at this beautiful resort or any of the other 14 DVC resorts for the next 50 years (50 points, 10 year loan). Just sign here...

They're focusing a LOT of the improvements in the parks on EP/HS in the next few years, and it's no accident that that is the likely timeline for RIV to actively sell and sell out. So they're pitching this as the flagship resort for the EP/HS/SW:GE area. A lot of dormant SW fans are going to get reactivated with Episode IX and even the Mandelorian, which I will admit I watched the first 2 episodes last night and can't wait for more.

Edit: (Also I've said in the past that they make $ through financing direct sales, too)
Edit again: Also someone here on the DIS said RIV felt like "mature parkgoer and mature wallet" - those of us who were kids when Eps. IV-VI came out are now in our late 40s - 50s. I am an outlier bec I have young kids, but they've been actively trying to sell WDW as "not just for kids" any more. A small contract to use in a studio or tower studio for a few days over F&W might be just someone's speed if they're empty nesters or have HS or older kids...
 


Also someone here on the DIS said RIV felt like "mature parkgoer and mature wallet" - those of us who were kids when Eps. IV-VI came out are now in our late 40s - 50s. I am an outlier bec I have young kids, but they've been actively trying to sell WDW as "not just for kids" any more. A small contract to use in a studio or tower studio for a few days over F&W might be just someone's speed if they're empty nesters or have HS or older kids...

I fully agree with you. DH and I are empty nesters and would be very interested in Riviera if we didn’t already own BWV. We’re looking forward very much to our one February night in a standard view 1-bedroom we booked with CC reward points. Being accustomed to the BWV points charts, we can’t see buying there now, but someone unfamiliar with BWV/BCV points charts might find Riviera very attractive.
 
I fully agree with you. DH and I are empty nesters and would be very interested in Riviera if we didn’t already own BWV. We’re looking forward very much to our one February night in a standard view 1-bedroom we booked with CC reward points. Being accustomed to the BWV points charts, we can’t see buying there now, but someone unfamiliar with BWV/BCV points charts might find Riviera very attractive.
This is a great point. Right now the reason many of us are balking is because there are options out there that require fewer points. But for the most part those are found at 2042 resorts. The new normal is a minimum of 15 points per night on average. That's a 50% increase over BWV and OKW. I bet they're kicking themselves for extending OKW until 2057. :)
 
This is a great point. Right now the reason many of us are balking is because there are options out there that require fewer points. But for the most part those are found at 2042 resorts. The new normal is a minimum of 15 points per night on average. That's a 50% increase over BWV and OKW. I bet they're kicking themselves for extending OKW until 2057. :)

And this is exactly why there won't be a straightforward extension of BCV/BWV when 2042 rolls around. BCV/BWV 2.0 will sell more points for more points-hungry rooms, and the new normal will shift to BLT-LV / VGF / Poly points charts.
 
And this is exactly why there won't be a straightforward extension of BCV/BWV when 2042 rolls around. BCV/BWV 2.0 will sell more points for more points-hungry rooms, and the new normal will shift to BLT-LV / VGF / Poly points charts.

Excellent point. When and if we add on, it will probably be BLT resale for walking proximity to MK, and with an expiration date similar to OKW (2057/2060). I LOVE LOVE Poly, but the possible point allocation shifting scares me off.
 
This is a great point. Right now the reason many of us are balking is because there are options out there that require fewer points. But for the most part those are found at 2042 resorts. The new normal is a minimum of 15 points per night on average. That's a 50% increase over BWV and OKW. I bet they're kicking themselves for extending OKW until 2057. :)

I bet it was also hard to have to put the points chart out at CCV to match BRV...
 
Riviera will never be the “flagship” of DVC. If for no other reason, it has a poor location. As much as the marketing is trying to push this, the slow sales have all but confirmed this. Numbers don’t lie.

That is your opinion. Many of us really like the location and think it is a key plus for buying at Riviera. Plus, when we look at the actual sales numbers and compare to prior resorts and years, they aren't slow.
 
That is your opinion. Many of us really like the location and think it is a key plus for buying at Riviera. Plus, when we look at the actual sales numbers and compare to prior resorts and years, they aren't slow.

Can't please everyone. The Riviera will do fine just like the other Disney resorts at WDW the small group of constant anti- restriction group of people will not affect sales they are just more vocal about there dislike.
 
I am not sure why anyone would think RIV is a better location than BCV or BWV. Its on moderate land, is attached to a moderate hotel, has views of a lake with a moderate on the other side, and requires transportation instead of allowing you to walk or take dual transportation to the parks.

Basically Riviera is similar to that Wilderness area. I wouldn't say that is a great location either.
 
I am not sure why anyone would think RIV is a better location than BCV or BWV. Its on moderate land, is attached to a moderate hotel, has views of a lake with a moderate on the other side, and requires transportation instead of allowing you to walk or take dual transportation to the parks.

Basically Riviera is similar to that Wilderness area. I wouldn't say that is a great location either.
I actually think this is a bit of a harsh take. This sentiment illustrates why Disney has been seeking to rid itself of the Value, Moderate, and Deluxe categories. For what it's worth, I don't see being adjacent to Carribean Beach as a negative as far as views or for lack of a better word, status, is concerned. I also understand that not all share my thinking on this. But I happen to think that CBR is a beautiful resort set around a beautiful lake; it's a nice view to look at from a RIV balcony.

I will say that transportation from RIV to DHS is probably more convenient than BWV to DHS. It's a LONG walk and if you happen to miss the boat you are a good 15-25 minutes away from the park. At least you know that you will never "just miss" a gondola (assuming they keep them running). RIV to Epcot is also more convenient if you are taking transportation for the same reason, less convenient if you are walking.

I don't think Wilderness Lodge is the comparison for Riviera. I actually think the comparison is the Poly or historically speaking the GF. Riviera has access to two parks via transportation and you can't walk to either. The Poly and the GF have access to two "parks" (MK and TTC) and you can't walk to a park from their either (again, historically speaking regarding the GF). Last I checked, people loved the location of both of those resorts.
 
I am not sure why anyone would think RIV is a better location than BCV or BWV. Its on moderate land, is attached to a moderate hotel, has views of a lake with a moderate on the other side, and requires transportation instead of allowing you to walk or take dual transportation to the parks.

Basically Riviera is similar to that Wilderness area. I wouldn't say that is a great location either.
:rotfl2:Thanks for making me laugh! “Moderate land”? “Views of a lake with a moderate on the other side”? Are you trying to confirm the stereotype that all DVC members are snobs? :rotfl2:
 
I don't think Wilderness Lodge is the comparison for Riviera. I actually think the comparison is the Poly or historically speaking the GF.

How there is zero view, does not have dual transportation (soon to be trio as walking will be added), and has a view of the Magic Kingdom (not a moderate resort).

It 100% is Wilderness Lodge. Lake Views, possible to see fireworks from resort in certain locations, and singular non-bus transportation (boat vs skyliner).

This sentiment illustrates why Disney has been seeking to rid itself of the Value, Moderate, and Deluxe categories. For what it's worth, I don't see being adjacent to Carribean Beach as a negative as far as views or for lack of a better word, status, is concerned.

A couple things Moderate vs Deluxe is based on location, quality of hotel, density of guests, and price tag.

The issue being directly connected to CBR is you have a resort with 1500 rooms with a good portion of those rooms directly connected to your primary transportation. Think if GFV had all of Kidani (the smaller of AK) getting on its Monorail/Boat stops.

It's a LONG walk

You realize with BWV the longest walk to the HS Skyliner is 1/2 mile and the longest walk at RIV to the Skyliner is 1/5 mile. That is a 3/10ths of a mile extra to just walk to HS than ride the Skyliner. Which by the way has an exchange at CBR where all RIV, CBR, AOA, and POP all load to go to HS.

Thanks for making me laugh! “Moderate land”? “Views of a lake with a moderate on the other side”? Are you trying to confirm the stereotype that all DVC members are snobs?

I have no issues looking at a Moderate resort but its not on the same tier as Poly or GFV which look on MK. I have no issues sharing transportation with CBR but again its not to the same level at BWV where you can walk to the same two resorts. I have no issues only taking transportation to the parks but its not on the same level as BLT which can walk to MK.

The whole purpose of my comment was about someone saying they thought RIV had the best location for the Epcot/HS parks which I am stating is false and a big portion of that is being tied to a moderate resort.

Disney is the one who classifies CBR as a lesser resort because of the Location, Quality, and Size of the resort. That is not my ranking as I have zero experience with physically staying at that resort. Many people love the resort which is great. Not overpaying for a lesser product is called frugal by the way not being a snob.
 
Disney is the one who classifies CBR as a lesser resort because of the Location, Quality, and Size of the resort. That is not my ranking as I have zero experience with physically staying at that resort. Many people love the resort which is great. Not overpaying for a lesser product is called frugal by the way not being a snob.

I must have misunderstood then - I thought you meant that gazing upon a lesser resort, even separated by a lake, from a deluxe resort balcony would be offensive to you!
 

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