Originally posted by oracle
You have repeatedly referred to Arabs as "they" when you make your derogatory remarks, making no distinguishment between wild fanatics, and the vast majority of their population.
Well, let's see if I can correct whatever I did to cause that ambiguity. I think there is a fundamental flaw in the Arab culture since they have way too many terrorists that are killing in the name of Allah. Sorry. That's the truth. So, although I don't think all Arabs or all Middle Easterners are terrorists, I think the culture that has borne these terrorists needs reform. The character of that reformation should be away from dogmatism and hatred and towards humanitarianism and peace.
i think you're oversimplifying here. You're ignoring all the other causes of terrorism. How about poor social conditions, and oppressive governmental regimes, for starters. Or maybe the horrendous treatment of these countries by most of the Western world. To say that they hate you and I because of their religion is irresponsible. The causes are numerous. As far as I'm concerned, the religion isn't dangerous, but the radicals who distort its teachings are. There is a big difference.
How do you suppose that the United States can end poverty, injustice, inhumanity, and tyranny around the world when you won't even accept the right of America to defend itself? Poverty and injustice have existed in this world since the beginning of time. If you accept poverty and injustice, concerns that have challenged mankind for millenia as a justification for murder, rape, beheadings, torture, kidnapping, and wholesale slaughter, you are, by far, more confused than you appeared. If you are making the argument that until the United States, apparently the sole responsible party for poverty and injustice in the world, eliminate these scourges, then no American will be safe anywhere on the planet. That's beyond absurdity!
Many people on this board have recognized as I do, and you do not, that not all Muslims are terrorists and killers but that the vast majority of terrorists and killers are Muslims. This is an essential truth that no one can ignore. While you may choose to ignore it ANYWAY, it does not change the fact of the matter. Something has gone appallingly wrong in current-day Islam. And, I would think you'd want to figure out what that is--quickly.
Try running that by some Palestinian families, and see how far you get.
Regarding your confusion about who is right and who is wrong in this Israeli-Palestinian conflict, even the Leftist lawyer political opportunist John Edwards tonight--in the debate--specifically stated that the Israeli people had a RIGHT to defend themselves against these Palestinian murderers. I ask you this: if John Edwards, the flak for the wannabe John Kerry, can understand and articulate that Israel has a right to defend itself against attack, how can you be so confused about which side is right and wrong when one side kills children asleep in their beds, blows them up on their way to school, and shoots innocents at dinnertime in public restaurants and the other side responds by targeting the murderers themselves? There is a deep disturbing moral and ethical confusion in this thread--and it certainly does not rest within the OP.
Are they quiet voices because you weren't listening, or because the media didn't cover them as much? That's not their fault. And what do you mean, "not written critically"?? Of course they're not, they are collections of quotes. What exactly would you have expected?
And the links I gave you showed that they were condemned in the Arab society too.
Your assertion that Islamic leaders condemn the murderers and the bombers and the beheaders is not backed up by the facts. Posting a web site or 2 or 4 is not equivalent to a public address from a mosque--is not equivalent to a leader of State condemning the violence in public. The silence of the Muslim majority is, perhaps, one of the scariest components for our futures--because, their silence, as I've stated, is nothing less than tacit approval or fear. And, those who would kill and rape children or behead our fellow Americans can not be anything but our enemies.
Are you even hearing yourself? Muslims don't approve of this either, and they don't have scriptural endorsement either. So no, it's not a key difference.
There are a great deal of scriptural endoresements. Are you kidding or specifically attempting to spread falsities? I've studied the Koran, Oracle. . .you must know nothing of Arab culture to say such a thing. I was in a discussion like this in the past, and the thread was closed when was just about to post the supporting surrahs. You absolutely don't know what you are talking about. There is surrah after surrah advocating the violence I am referring to. That's why the sites you listed aren't credible nor critical in it's assessment of Islam.
Abortion doctor killers think they are doing God's work too. Is that a cultural problem? Actually, this is the heart of the matter, and that's why you just don't get it. Our culture produced Timothy McVeigh, the KKK, and the highest murder rates in the world. Does that mean we're inferior too?
Your points about abortion doctor killers and Tim McVeigh is more of your classic tactic of confusing the issue with red herrings. Abortion doctor killers and extremist Right Wing bombers in teh United States represent a FAR smaller proportion of the population than do Islamic terrorists of theirs. Also, and this is the important point, every single act of terror by an American against Americans or anybody has always--WITHOUT EXCEPTION--been met with a MASSIVE outpouring of condemnation by the American people. In contrast, the daily violence and murders and bombings of the Islamic fanatics are met with nothing but silence by the Islamic world community. There are exceptions of this silence, however, as you may recall. The exception to the silence of the Islamic world in the face of Islamist terrorism are cheering and support--financial and moral. You may recall that on 9-11, thousands of Palestinians wer literally dancing in the streets and passed out candy to children in the West Bank and Gaza to celebrate the murder of Americans. This is just one of many reasons why the pathetic PA cannot possibly have American support.
Could we get some documentation for this? Links, references, anything? Who is this guy you're quoting here? How do we know he's reliable?
Don't ask me about Daniel Pipes' reliability or credentials. He's a highly respected academic and author. If, after reading his material, you find him of no moment then you should ask your credential oriented questions. However, my guess is, you ask the credential question first so that you don't have to do your homework. Pipes is a highly regarded Ivy League academic and author and one of the better analysts and commentators on Islamic Fundamentalism and terrorism. Pipes is not an apologist; he's objective and his conclusions are difficult to refute.
www.meforum.org, www.danielpipes.org
I don't know what this has to do with anything. I think the important thing is that you know very little about the religion, yet you have no trouble criticizing it, and branding the whole group as extremists.
You would be correct if I indeed knew very little, but I know very much. And, if you don't know Daniel Pipes, then it is obvious you know very little. Even the late Edward Said, Trevor Roper, CAIR--all of the apologists out there, know who he is. That's the important thing. . you are attempting to refute my arguments based on the way you really wish or the way you really want the world to be--not the way it really is. If you ever want the world to get where you wish it to be, however, you have to be intellectually honest, face the truth with all its warts, and then try to fix it.
