Questions regarding options

[pucelle]

Hey Everyone,

I am currently at Disney and sat through the presentation for the 2nd time (1st time was back when Boardwalk was selling) and am planning on joining. I really hadn't known about the resale market nor about any changes or how much the MF went up each year.

I was thinking of getting Wilderness Lodge since it was $100/pt and getting about 146 pts since that would get me all the points I need to travel. However in reading this forum, i sounds like I should be getting on the resale market instead since it would be cheaper.

What about both? Does it make sense to get a small contract direct from Disney (50) and get add-ons on the resale market? If I get 50 points, I'll get 50 points to start plus the 50 at the UY (current promotion). I now understand the current promotion of 10% on AK and Hawaii since there seems to be an additional amount of points available. I could also wait until the Floridan and buy then...

I can't get a 2nd mortgage or HELOC since I don't have a 1st mortgage and am pretty certain I can't get a mortgage for the small price of what I would need for the timeshare which is sad since the rates are soooo low right now.

Also, why is it bad to use DVC points for Disney Adventures, the Cruiseline, and the Asian Disney Resorts?

Background info: This is my first time where I've actually had to pay full price for Disney since before I used a cast-member or friends-n-family discount. DVC is interesting to me for the perks, the variety, and the cost effectiveness of staying on Disney property when visiting. But I am also interested in Disney Adventures, the Cruiseline, & the Asian Disney parks (used my cast member discount when I went to DL Paris in 2003) and figured the points would help me be able to do that. I only travel in the off season (October & January; March/April rarely) or when I can get a deal. The 11 months to book a room vs the 7 doesn't seem like it would make much of a difference for me since I don't plan that far in advance as I usually get my flight 1st. I've met a couple DVC members at EPCOT and at Universal but that was before I found this board this morning.

Anyhow, any insights would be helpful.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

why is it bad to use DVC points for Disney Adventures, the Cruiseline, and the Asian Disney Resorts?

It's like paying $100 for something beacuse you are using a credit card, when you could have bought it for $60 with cash. That's the bottom line.

Now it takes a bit of effort to turn DVC points into cash to purchase the same thing you would have paid for with points, but you'll have quite a bit of money left over after doing so.

 

[Missyrose]

As far as the "other" options for you're directly bought points, your 146 points won't get you very far. The cruise line, Disney Collection and ABD all cost hundreds of points PER PERSON, so you'd have to use 2 or three years worth of your total number of points to make even the cheapest of those options work.

Bottom line, if you want DVC to use for when you stay at Disney, then buy resale. If you want to do any of those other options, buy resale and rent out your points so you can pay cash for the Disney cruise/Paris Disney/ABD trip you want to take.

 

[disneynutz]

Start reading the purchase threads here on the DIS for all of the answers to your questions.

DVC is a okay product for some but not for others, you need to determine if it will save you some money or end up costing you more.

You also need to ask yourself, why are there so many contracts on the resale market, why are DVC owners selling if it is such a good deal?

Bill

 

[pucelle]

Hi Bill,

I already decided that it makes sense for me when I crunched the numbers, but in reading these forums, it doesn't make sense to buy a large amount. My rep was pushing 50 points and now I see why he kept saying as I can add on small amounts later as needed. When I looked at point requirements, 146 points are the most that I would need based on when I travel/vacation (Choice & Adventure).

If I hadn't already spent my vacation money I could have gotten a 25 point one for cash (which really would have been ok for me since it would have been a good direct starting point & the rest resale).

I did want to know about adding on when things are new, they give pre-sale discounts so you can buy as little as 25 (cash) and 50 (financed via Disney). I think for the rest of the points, I'll get them resale & am aware that I'll have to wait awhile since I want 25-50 point chunks.

(Wrote this 3 days ago but thanks to Sandy haven't been able to respond)

I can guess why people are selling, the annual fees go up every year and if you aren't paying attention you don't really get that from the sales rep. Plus the math they do really doesn't make much sense if you do it yourself. As a single traveller, it doesn't make financial sense to do DVC since I'm only interested in 1 Bedroom Villas (Studio is ok) but the benefits of being a DVC member are worth the cost to me. It's the only way I can get close to my benefits when I was a cast member without being a cast member (casual seasonal). When you are used to living on Disney Property, getting a discount, going to the parks without having to rush to see everything, & not having to worry about transportation; it just makes sense.

 

[Deb & Bill]

...As a single traveller, it doesn't make financial sense to do DVC since I'm only interested in 1 Bedroom Villas (Studio is ok) but the benefits of being a DVC member are worth the cost to me. It's the only way I can get close to my benefits when I was a cast member without being a cast member (casual seasonal). When you are used to living on Disney Property, getting a discount, going to the parks without having to rush to see everything, & not having to worry about transportation; it just makes sense.

Don't buy DVC for the benefits. They change and sometimes are eliminated. You buy DVC for the lodging and that's about the only reason. When you buy a small contract, it won't get you many nights in a one bedroom villa if that is what you want.

 

[Lynne M]

As a single traveller, it doesn't make financial sense to do DVC since I'm only interested in 1 Bedroom Villas (Studio is ok) but the benefits of being a DVC member are worth the cost to me. It's the only way I can get close to my benefits when I was a cast member without being a cast member (casual seasonal). When you are used to living on Disney Property, getting a discount, going to the parks without having to rush to see everything, & not having to worry about transportation; it just makes sense.

Never consider the perks/benefits when making a purchase decision. They're not part of your ownership, and are given more or less at the whim of other divisions of the Disney company, like Disney Parks, or third parties like shops or restaurants. The come and go all the time. The AP discount, for example, could go away tomorrow if Disney Parks decides it's no longer beneficial to them.

When you buy DVC, what you're really buying is the right to stay at your home resort, subject to availability. Everything else is subject to change.

 

[JABEAR]

I would buy your first contract resale because it might be easier to match up your use year (if that matters to you) through the direct purchase than it will waiting for a resale contract to pop up at the right price and the right size and then after finding it being the first one to get an accepted offer.

I think buying smaller contracts is the way to go. They are easier to sell than larger contracts and will generally get more money per point if you needed to sell the contract.

Good Luck!

 

[jkpatrick]

What about both? Does it make sense to get a small contract direct from Disney (50) and get add-ons on the resale market? If I get 50 points, I'll get 50 points to start plus the 50 at the UY (current promotion).

I think buying Direct, the minimum you can buy is 100 points? But if you are already a member, you can buy in 25 point increments. So if you were to buy a small direct and a small resale, you would have to buy resale first and direct second.

 

[pucelle]

Thanks for all the replies. The minimum I can purchase direct from Disney is 50 (financed) or 25 (cash, maybe didn't look into this). I was looking at financing originally until I saw the ridiculous rate they were charging (15-16%). I want to purchase in small 25-50 chunks as I feel that will be more manageable & should I want to sell be easier to get rid of. It seems that lots that small are hard to come by and I would guess probably not that much cheaper than buying direct from disney. I haven't seen that many resale contracts for under 100 for SSR but the ones I have seen are about $10 cheaper than direct from Disney (currently $110). I think I'll create a post asking about them as I haven't really seen much of a history in regards to the small purchases. When you buy a small purchase, the paperwork states that it is below the minimum and that you aren't guaranteed to have enough points to stay unless you borrow and/or bank point but at the same time if you do that you still may not have enough for a week or any of the other options. It was high lighted in Bold on my contract.

EPCOT is my favorite park even after working there for a year, I went down every year afterwards for 4 years to go to the Food and Wine Festival. I pretty much only go to EPCOT when I go to Disney unless I'm am doing a whirlwind of the other 3 parks in 1 day (although I tend to go to the Studios more due to it's proximity to EPCOT). So October is pretty much when I will go to Disney and I don't want to be off property (did that this trip and it was HORRIBLE). Studio's work for me as I want a fridge and a microwave especially if I can fly down cheaply for a short visit midweek (I have a weird work schedule). I'm sure as I accumulate points, I'll want to stay at EVERY location once (well not Vero Beach since with no Disney it makes no sense for me to go there since I dislike US beaches, the water is 'dirty' compared to the blue water of the Caribbean). 1 Bedroom's sound like something I'd use when I'm visiting not in October when I would be more inclined to cook, rent a car (yay for finally getting a Whole Paycheck), and do a short visit.

However, owning at BCV or BWV didn't make sense to me cause I'm just buying points and the MF's for both locations are higher than SSR and go up more than SSR. Plus they cost more per point than SSR so it's a better value to me in the long run. That is the only real financial comparison that I can do since the TVM doesn't work for me since I wouldn't invest the money in a CD (1% really?!) to take a vacation; I would just go with the best deal I could get which wouldn't be comparing apples to apples. I purchased 50 points direct from disney for $5500 + $57 closing costs with an October UY. I don't know if that means I get 100 points or only 50 points at close since we had used a June UY when I was doing my calculation. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to cancel my contract due to the damage from Sandy and hope I'll be able to do it next year. In the mean time I'll keep doing research on the resales and the different forums to learn more information.

 

[Deb & Bill]

...I purchased 50 points direct from disney for $5500 + $57 closing costs with an October UY. I don't know if that means I get 100 points or only 50 points at close since we had used a June UY when I was doing my calculation. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to cancel my contract due to the damage from Sandy and hope I'll be able to do it next year. In the mean time I'll keep doing research on the resales and the different forums to learn more information.

Since you would have been closing after October 1, you wouldn't get Oct 2011 points, just Oct 2012 points. If you had a Dec UY, you might still get Dec 2011 points if you closed before Dec 1.

 

[Dean]

IMO if one can't pay cash, they can't afford luxury purchases. I'd suggest you save up and buy resale what you can pay cash for. However, I'm not convinced DVC makes sense for you if you're planning on traveling alone most trips. I know you said you've crunched the numbers but I'm guessing you did so using the DVC rack rates as your comparison, that's not a good point of reference unless you would pay that if you didn't own. I'd second the idea that if DVC without the perks doesn't make sense, DVC doesn't make sense. I think the only exception I can think of are those that can get enough current benefits from the discounts and perks. Effectively those that can make hay with the pass discounts with a large family contingent and those that use it for access but mostly stay off property are about the only exceptions I can think of.

 

[CarolMN]

....(snip).......However, owning at BCV or BWV didn't make sense to me cause I'm just buying points and the MF's for both locations are higher than SSR and go up more than SSR. Plus they cost more per point than SSR so it's a better value to me in the long run. ......

First of all, I am sorry for the loss that Sandy inflicted on you and yours. We all hope that those impacted will be able to recover quickly.

Some of the things you posted led me to believe that you want only to stay at BWV or BCV during your October visits. Keep in mind that many members own those two resorts to be able to book them before the 7 month window opens. There seems to be some space available at 7 months for non-owners to book, but there are far more who seek to stay at those resorts than there are rooms. More are disappointed than successful. If staying at BCV or BWV during F&W is important to you, it's best to own there and book at 11 months. That's especially important at BWV if you want a Boardwalk view or a standard view room.

If you do not think you can or will book more than 7 months in advance, then it doesn't matter where you own. (That said, at least buy at WDW unless you plan to actually stay at VB, Aulani or HHI). At 7 months, a point is a point is a point.

Good luck!

 

[pucelle]

I do plan on paying cash which was why I had to cancel :-( My cost calculations are based off how much it would cost to stay off property in Studio/1-Bedroom, renting car, parking fees & travel time & the same with staying with a friend over the course of 5-7 days with trips to F&W & Universal. When compared to staying on property hotels/resorts, cost of breakfast is added (Lunch & Dinner are of course via FW), rental car removed but shuttle to Universal is added. Since World Showcase opens at 11, I've always found it easier to get there at around that time coming from the Studios or Boardwalk than the main Entrance.

With the exception of maybe BLT & AKV, the view isn't as important to me as I only look out the window when I 1st get into a room after that I'm out and about. I'm not really a view person unless it's really special (balcony/hammock beachside view with the sound of waves comes to mind). I never really thought about staying at BWV or BCV, it wasn't in my calculations. I don't book F&W until AFTER I book the Food reservations cause I'm really picky & now with my food allergy to Gluten it's a little more difficult. So with that in mind I'll only be booking with whatever inventory is available 2-3 months ahead of time anyway. I suspect I can book a week 1st and change after reservations but that doesn't mean anything will be available.

For me, the convenience of being closer means I can spend more of my time on vacation rather than being en-route to said vacation. Even when I calculated the annual MF for SSR down the road to be around $16/pt (at 3% increase each year) it still made sense. My break even point is sooner depending on any perks but I don't assume they will be there. However, my calculations also include the fact that half of my future vacations to Disney will be with friends. Which is on the low end since 90% of all of my Disney Vacations have been with other people but they just haven't all been at F&W time. Since F&W is my favorite time to come down though that's the base of my calculations.

Anyhow, I'll keep lurking on this board & keep a watch out for next year. I suspect that when I have the money in the Spring I'll be able to start searching for small packages. Buying in the 25-50 range makes it easier to buy cash even if it does mean a longer search/wait.

In the meantime, looking forward to having heat & happy that it hasn't been below freezing. Also looking forward to learning more about DVC as it's interesting to see the changes between my 1st presentation (Boardwalk) and 2nd (Aulani & AK). At neither presentation did I know about re-sales but I still found the presentations interesting. I will say those 1-Bedrooms are nice & I could totally see myself getting spoiled with them.

Thanks for all the insights

 

[Dean]

I do plan on paying cash which was why I had to cancel :-( My cost calculations are based off how much it would cost to stay off property in Studio/1-Bedroom, renting car, parking fees & travel time & the same with staying with a friend over the course of 5-7 days with trips to F&W & Universal. When compared to staying on property hotels/resorts, cost of breakfast is added (Lunch & Dinner are of course via FW), rental car removed but shuttle to Universal is added.

If you're comparing to off property, you should compare to off property timeshares as well as hotel or cash reservations.

 

[Deb & Bill]

...I don't book F&W until AFTER I book the Food reservations cause I'm really picky & now with my food allergy to Gluten it's a little more difficult. So with that in mind I'll only be booking with whatever inventory is available 2-3 months ahead of time anyway. I suspect I can book a week 1st and change after reservations but that doesn't mean anything will be available.....

Your idea of 2-3 months ahead of time isn't all that workable at this point. Especially for F&W. We couldn't book a one bedroom at BCV for a week at seven months out this year. Studios would be booked up before one bedrooms.

 

[vicki_c]

Your idea of 2-3 months ahead of time isn't all that workable at this point. Especially for F&W. We couldn't book a one bedroom at BCV for a week at seven months out this year. Studios would be booked up before one bedrooms.

We've booked F&W for 3 day weekends a few months out (August for November). The first year, 2008, we were only able to get BWV in a 1 BR thru the wait list. We only wanted a studio. Last year, we were unable to get anything at all that late and stayed at the Swan.