Question: Should scouts be encouraged to help pick up trash that's not theirs?

[RF536]

I am a Webelos I den leader, and I would except my scouts to help pick up the cups that were being blown around. Scouts are expected to help other people, but they also need to be lead by example, so I would have been very disappointed if the other leader didn't help. We go out several times a year, both as dens and as a pack and pick up garbage around our town.

 

[Geoff_M]

With regard to picking up other people's messes, Scout troops (mine included) have the saying "Leave the place cleaner than you found it!"

 

[tiggger1]

Can you explain the logistical issue? I didn't understand your OP. The door? Two deep?

BTW, my gut reaction would always be to help.

I am thinking they were selling popcorn door to door and they happen to be walking by a table with cups that blew apart in the wind and because the OP helped clean up the cups, the other woman couldnt take the boys to the next door because they need 2 adults...

 

[TLuvsD]

Girl Scout here....for too many years to list. And every Girl Scout with me would have been helping.....well maybe one adult to stay with the product/cashbox....but everyone else would have been helping. I'm happy to say I doubt I would have had to ask, either.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

The reason I said to tell the Scout Master is because someone needs to address the situation with the scouts. That way they will know what to do in the future. I wouldn't just let it go. Maybe he doesn't have to bring up that situation exactly, but maybe the boys need to be reminded of what the scout oath is all about.

 

[jmjousley]

Most definitely. Anytime a scout puts on their uniform they are representing the Boy Scouts of America and should do their part. That leader was not representing your troop/pack well at all.

Sharon

 

[Squirrel!!!]

Holy Moly!!

I know the OP was in an awkward postition with the other adult, but I fear my mouth would have been hanging open in shock at her reaction to the cups flying about.

How about we not even think about what the scouts oath is and remember common human decency.

People drop stuff, you help them pick it up. Do onto others?

Yes, I do believe that the scouts helping was the ONLY choice.

Good job.

The other adult needs to read the oath, think things through, perhaps get a little less selfish?

 

[Wishing on a star]

felt we should not encourage the boys to help and that doing so would hinder getting to the other door to set up popcorn sales.

Tiggger, No, I don't think they were going door-to-door.
It sounds like they were arriving to set up a sales table at one of the doors/entries at a place like WalMart.

Therefore, this woman telling her scouts not to help was most likely witnessed by several bystanders.

PS: OP, you said grade 7 and up.... Good Lord, I also find it appalling that she seems to be treating full fledged teenaged Scouts like toddlers!!!

Two deep, hand holding, with grown teenagers????

 

[walden]

I am a Webelos I den leader, and I would except my scouts to help pick up the cups that were being blown around. Scouts are expected to help other people, but they also need to be lead by example, so I would have been very disappointed if the other leader didn't help. We go out several times a year, both as dens and as a pack and pick up garbage around our town.

This!

As I remember Scout Law: A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He associates with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean.

I'm as old as the hills so I could get away with asking the other leader if the Scout Law had changed.

 

[twinklebug]

Can you explain the logistical issue? I didn't understand your OP. The door? Two deep?

BTW, my gut reaction would always be to help.

I am thinking they were selling popcorn door to door and they happen to be walking by a table with cups that blew apart in the wind and because the OP helped clean up the cups, the other woman couldnt take the boys to the next door because they need 2 adults...

Two deep leadership means you must have a minimum of 2 adults present at any function. The two can be leaders or leaders and parents or parents.

I'm a tiger leader and when we go out we always clean up trash. My littlest one has been a tag along since he a year old and now he will stop in the middle of a parking lot and pick up trash and carry it until we find a trash can. It used to skeeve me out that he was touching other peoples trash (like straws food wrappers) but it hasn't killed him yet so I don't worry anymore.

Daisy

I'm sorry jrmasm, I missed your question. To answer, Daisy is right as to the definition of "two deep". It means so as to protect the children we always have 2 parent or adult leaders with the children at all times. The exception being if he's one's own child, in which case we are allowed to be alone with them. Interestingly enough the other woman had no problem leaving me alone with 2 boys at the table after it was set up.

The "other door" was referring to the second entrance. The first table was set up at the grocery entrance to Walmart. The other door where we were headed was the general merchandise entrance. We weren't 5 feet away from the grocery side when the cups blew.

A little added info: neither the woman nor I are leaders. I'm just a mom takign part in chaperoning and helping where I can. The other woman is also a mom, not a leader, but as I understand it, she is registered with and has been certified by the BSA to assist with educating the kids for badges. The troop consists of kids ranging in age from 12 through 18 and has more than enough adult help - there were 5 boys there at the time the incident occurred, at 12, my son was the youngest. Yes the cups did blow into the road, but there were no cars moving other than one parked directly in front. I made sure it was as safe as possible before asking the kids to help.

 

[twinklebug]

This!

As I remember Scout Law: A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He associates with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean.

I'm as old as the hills so I could get away with asking the other leader if the Scout Law had changed.

Love it. Maybe that's along the lines of what I should email the scout master so he can work it into his meeting notes (and I do think it might be best not to mention either the woman's name nor the boys involved)

 

[3boymthr]

I would address this issue with the Troop Master. He needs to address the situation as a whole with the troop. No calling names, just reminding the boys of the behavior expected of them. All the boys in our troop would have helped and no parent would have stopped them.

I'm sorry jrmasm, I missed your question. To answer, Daisy is right as to the definition of "two deep". It means so as to protect the children we always have 2 parent or adult leaders with the children at all times. The exception being if he's one's own child, in which case we are allowed to be alone with them. Interestingly enough the other woman had no problem leaving me alone with 2 boys at the table after it was set up.
The "other door" was referring to the second entrance. The first table was set up at the grocery entrance to Walmart. The other door where we were headed was the general merchandise entrance. We weren't 5 feet away from the grocery side when the cups blew.

A little added info: neither the woman nor I are leaders. I'm just a mom takign part in chaperoning and helping where I can. The other woman is also a mom, not a leader, but as I understand it, she is registered with and has been certified by the BSA to assist with educating the kids for badges. The troop consists of kids ranging in age from 12 through 18 and has more than enough adult help - there were 5 boys there at the time the incident occurred, at 12, my son was the youngest. Yes the cups did blow into the road, but there were no cars moving other than one parked directly in front. I made sure it was as safe as possible before asking the kids to help.

FWIW -if this helps in addressing your issues with the Troop Master. You and/or this woman has a slight misunderstanding of the subtleties of Two Deep Leadership (I just took the online Youth Protection Training - I highly recommend it). As long as one of the children is her/your own child she/you is/are allowed to be alone with the entire group of children. Also, as long as you remain in public view the entire time (with other people constantly passing) you are allowed to be with the other children with no other Troop Leader present. A passerby is considered the "second" leader. Sounds as though both of these situations apply no matter how this situation had played out.

 

[bumbershoot]

I would have had an expectation that the Scouts would have WANTED to help in such a situation. If they didn't, I would really question their organization and leadership, since surely there's been a gap in their good citizenship education.

 

[Mrs. Charming]

I would expect anyone, Scouts or not, to help in the situation you described. Unfortunately, I have ssen way too often that that is not the case for alot of people. The whole "not my problem' mentality.

My thoughts exactly. *Especially* a Boy/Girl Scout!

 

[pixiewings71]

DBF is an Eagle Scout, as a family we follow the no trace rule, so yes, the Scouts should have helped and the other parent would have received a stern speaking to from me, especially if she stopped MY kids from doing the right thing. Heck our girls aren't even in scouting and we follow that rule, it's common courtesy, OP I'm glad your kids are learning it from you.