Question for Run/Walkers

[dragitoff]

I just finished my first half a few weeks ago. I was off 10 minutes from my goal time; however I don't feel so bad about that. The Kenyan that won the full was about 8 minutes off his goal time too because of the massive rainstorm that soaked all the runners. I had some major cramping issues and ran out of gas at the end of my run despite staying relatively close to my target time per mile. I think the cramping was attributed to taking a little bit longer walk break than usual at the end because I felt so exhausted.

That, coupled with the start of my full marathon training (for January 2013 at WDW) has me readdressing my training plan. When I trained for the half, I trained running 9 minutes and walking 1 and my target time was a 9mm (roughly-I was closer to 9:15, but it's easier to track 9 flat)

My thoughts on my long runs and my half marathon is that it seems to take forever to get to my walk break and they last such a short time. I've tried a few shorter (4-5 mile) runs with a new strategy to address that and my fatigue and cramping issues faced in my last race. I've started running 4 minutes and walking 1 and using a target pace of 10mm. So far, I've been running much quicker than the 10mm pace; however I feel so much more refreshed while running and following my runs. I also run much faster during my running times. This Saturday, I'll do a nice 10-12 mile run using this strategy.

I was just curious if there are any other run/walkers out there that have changed your strategy for a race and had success/failures with it. I've got plenty of time to adjust to my new strategy and scrap it if I don't like it and still train for the full in January. I'm just trying to take care of myself and prevent injury while pushing myself further than I ever thought I could. Heck, I've already done that. After losing 50lbs. and keeping it off for over a year and running 30 miles per week for a better part of a year now, I'm already doing more than I thought I could. Now, I want to maintain and grow that number in a safe manner.

 

[bunnyfoo]

I typically do 10/1 intervals. I did this for my first full and it did feel like the walk breaks took forever to get to and by the end my running partner and I were taking breaks that were about 2 minutes each. This past January, the group I ran with used 4/1. In the beginning, the runs felt really short. But toward the end, 4 minutes did feel just about right.

I've also done races with 15/1 intervals. They seem to work for races up to a half distance but the shorter run intervals I've found I like better with longer races.

 

[johde]

I've also done races with 15/1 intervals. They seem to work for races up to a half distance but the shorter run intervals I've found I like better with longer races.

Jeff Galloway, who probably done more work on run/walk than anyone, does something similar if you dig through several of his books. His run/walk ratios for 5 and 10K are much longer than for half marathons, marathons and long runs. I'm slower than both of you but for example, in a 5K, he recommends run 5 min./walk 30 sec for an 11:00 mile. Where in a half marathon he recommends run 2:30/walk 1:00 for an 11:00 mile. In my case, I'm hoping to do about a 12:00 mile for the half, and he recommends running 2:00/walk 1:00.

The most important factor I've found in run/walk is your running speed. You want to stop running while you are still running strong. If you run too long, you not only run slower but you can also walk slower. That's not to say you should speedwalk. You want to be able to walk at a comfortable clip, because the walk breaks are about recovery for the next run interval. My walk speed when I just walk is 15:00-16:00 miles. My walk breaks at times can get closer to the 17:00 mile.

 

[ironz]

Definitely worth playing around with and see what works best for you with the distance/how you feel that day/how your training has been, etc.

I've done anything from 2 min run/1 min walk up to 6 min run/1 min walk for marathon/half marathon distances. Have even changed it up a little due to injury and done 3 min run/2 min walk for a little extra recovery. Except for the case of an injury bad enough to affect my running at the WDW marathon 2012, this strategy has got me to the finish line in several marathons and half marathons.

Also, if you're comfortable enough with resetting your watch, you can change the intervals as you feel differently during the race. In one race (marathon of an Ironman triathlon), I felt awful going into the run and wasn't sure I was going to be running much, but was not going to walk the whole thing (BTDT and it was terrible). So I started out at 2:1....that easy little ratio got me started, and I had a few bad moments, but it was enough time for my body to settle down, so in the 2nd half, I changed it to a 3:1, and was running stronger and faster than at any point in the first half! Negative split by 20 minutes.

So...listen to your body!

 

[bunnyfoo]

Jeff Galloway, who probably done more work on run/walk than anyone, does something similar if you dig through several of his books. His run/walk ratios for 5 and 10K are much longer than for half marathons, marathons and long runs. I'm slower than both of you but for example, in a 5K, he recommends run 5 min./walk 30 sec for an 11:00 mile. Where in a half marathon he recommends run 2:30/walk 1:00 for an 11:00 mile. In my case, I'm hoping to do about a 12:00 mile for the half, and he recommends running 2:00/walk 1:00.

The most important factor I've found in run/walk is your running speed. You want to stop running while you are still running strong. If you run too long, you not only run slower but you can also walk slower. That's not to say you should speedwalk. You want to be able to walk at a comfortable clip, because the walk breaks are about recovery for the next run interval. My walk speed when I just walk is 15:00-16:00 miles. My walk breaks at times can get closer to the 17:00 mile.

We saw him during the full (and actually flagged him down for a photo ) Looked like at the time he was doing 1/1 or 1/0:30 - I'm guessing his pace was closer to 9 m/m because we actually had to step on the gas a bit to catch up. When I saw him back in 2011 during the full, it looked like he was about 3/1 but he was running with his wife.

I think we were averaging 9:30-10:00 on our earlier runs. Once we hit Osceola Parkway and the sun, I think we slowed down to 10:30-11:00. Good point on taking the walk breaks while you're feeling strong. There were parts that we skipped the walking break - either purposely (going through the stinky parts of Epcot or AK) or accidentally (couldn't hear the watch beeping because of the music).

When is your next half?

 

[dragitoff]

I don't currently have another half on the agenda. I haven't found any nearby that I can do, but my training plan is this....

4 days per week run 4-5 miles (varies depending on day of week and DW...we run together)

Saturday 7-9 miles on "off" week. Every other Saturday I increase my mileage by 1 mile. This week, I'll be running 14 miles.

 

[johde]

We saw him during the full (and actually flagged him down for a photo ) Looked like at the time he was doing 1/1 or 1/0:30 - I'm guessing his pace was closer to 9 m/m because we actually had to step on the gas a bit to catch up. When I saw him back in 2011 during the full, it looked like he was about 3/1 but he was running with his wife.
When is your next half?

I've heard Jeff say he does most of his races :30/:30 any more.

 

[J-2]

-

 

[dcr]

I know for the Princess this year he said he would be doing :40/:20 for the race. He announced that at the start of the race.

The only reason that he ran that stiff of a ration is that he was running with Sage Steele, who refused to run any less than that. He tried to talk he into 30/30's, but she wouldn't have it. She originally wanted to do 2/1's!

The nice thing about starting very conservative, is that to speed up, all you have to do is start changing your ratios in small increments. If you feel great, you can ratchet up again. It's a guaranteed negative split.

Derek

 

[Tabetha]

The only reason that he ran that stiff of a ration is that he was running with Sage Steele, who refused to run any less than that. He tried to talk he into 30/30's, but she wouldn't have it. She originally wanted to do 2/1's!

The nice thing about starting very conservative, is that to speed up, all you have to do is start changing your ratios in small increments. If you feel great, you can ratchet up again. It's a guaranteed negative split.

Derek

This is fascinating. My husband and I were just trying to strategize our Disneyland Half training. We talked about upping our run/walk from 2/1 to something more like 3/1 or 4/1, but maybe we should bump it DOWN instead!

We played it conservative for our first race (Princess), but we want to be lighter (ahem, diet) and faster in August.

 

[dcr]

This is fascinating. My husband and I were just trying to strategize our Disneyland Half training. We talked about upping our run/walk from 2/1 to something more like 3/1 or 4/1, but maybe we should bump it DOWN instead!

We played it conservative for our first race (Princess), but we want to be lighter (ahem, diet) and faster in August.

Start fast = you run out of gas
Start slow = leave plenty of GO!

 

[dragitoff]

Start fast = you run out of gas
Start slow = leave plenty of GO!

THIS! That's my problem no matter if it's a 5k or half marathon or whatever. I've run down towards the end of every single race I've ever been in. I try really hard to stick to my pace but I guess I'm just so competitive I let my adrenaline get the best of me.

 

[dragitoff]

The nice thing about starting very conservative, is that to speed up, all you have to do is start changing your ratios in small increments. If you feel great, you can ratchet up again. It's a guaranteed negative split.

Derek

That was honestly my logic. If I'm able to increase by 1 mile every 2 weeks, I'll be running 26 miles by September. That would give me a few months to hone in that time a little better if I want to increase the pace. That's EXACTLY what I did with my half training. I started with a 5/1 ratio and then bumped it up to 9/1.

 

[bunnyfoo]

Really interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on run/walk intervals

dragitoff - You should be more than ready to run a half whenever you find one. I'm training for a half in May and I'm still working my way back up to a double digit run. I'm afraid I haven't done as much running as I would have liked since January.

Jeremy/Jennifer - What's Galloway's rationale of doing such small run/walk intervals? I'm just curious. Is it so he can go really fast on the run intervals?

Derek - I usually try to go for negative splits as well. I usually have a hard time starting out fast because I find I have to get into a bit of a rhythmn first. I do have a friend who says to forget the negative splits and just run at pace. I usually like do sprint down the finishing chute (for fun) but he thinks I've left too much gas in the tank if I'm able to do that LOL

 

[dcr]

THIS! That's my problem no matter if it's a 5k or half marathon or whatever. I've run down towards the end of every single race I've ever been in. I try really hard to stick to my pace but I guess I'm just so competitive I let my adrenaline get the best of me.

That's an easy fix. Just start with no more than 2/1 and don't skip any walk breaks!

You also talked about cramping in your races, but you didn't say what types of cramps. Side cramps are an indicator of poor breathing, and leg cramps come from over training.

It sounds like you may be pushing a bit too hard. What is your average magic mile time?

 

[Rose&Mike]

Leg cramps can also come from an electrolyte imbalance.

 

[dcr]

Really interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on run/walk intervals What's Galloway's rationale of doing such small run/walk intervals? I'm just curious. Is it so he can go really fast on the run intervals?

I didn't believe that running a shorter interval would make you run faster, and with less effort, until Jeff had me try different ratios. Try it and it will probably surprise you. I run WAY faster on a 30/30 than I do at 1/1.

When you walk more often, your legs are fresher. When you run less, it takes less time for your legs to recover.

I do have a friend who says to forget the negative splits and just run at pace. I usually like do sprint down the finishing chute (for fun) but he thinks I've left too much gas in the tank if I'm able to do that LOL

If you can sprint to the line, you do have a bunch of energy that you didn't use. That also means that you had plenty of energy to celebrate, and that isn't a bad thing!

 

[dragitoff]

That's an easy fix. Just start with no more than 2/1 and don't skip any walk breaks!

You also talked about cramping in your races, but you didn't say what types of cramps. Side cramps are an indicator of poor breathing, and leg cramps come from over training.

It sounds like you may be pushing a bit too hard. What is your average magic mile time?

They were actually calf cramps. I'm not doing a specific Galloway or other Run/Walk so I don't have a "magic mile".

 

[dcr]

Leg cramps can also come from an electrolyte imbalance.

"CAN" is the operative word there. Like all of the horrible side effects that are listed on a bottle of medication, it COULD be caused by this, but it isn't very likely.

There is a huge different between the clinical definition of an imbalance and the marketing definition. The clinical side looks at an electrolyte imbalance as a serious medical condition. The marketing side looks at a perceived electrolyte imbalance as a profitable perception.

In the actual medical research that I have read, the thing that seems very consistent is that runners who experience cramps exhibit blood markers that indicate prior muscle injury. That isn't traumatic injury, but the normal injury that occurs during long or hard exertion. In other words, they worked hard, and didn't allow sufficient time for recovery.

And don't forget to rule out the fact that muscles will cramp when your run them to the point of fatigue. You can cramp by simply running past your present ability.

 

[dcr]

They were actually calf cramps. I'm not doing a specific Galloway or other Run/Walk so I don't have a "magic mile".

In that case, I would bet the farm that you are going too fast, too soon, and probably too often. But without a baseline and a plan, everything is a complete shot in the dark.