question for parents or teachers...

Blueeyes101817

DIS Legend
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Jan 31, 2004
Messages
24,415
I work in a preschool teaching a class of 4 year olds...i was hoping to get some advice for one of the children in my class...
This child likes to hit, spit, pinch and do about everything else to the other kids in the class...we try to talk to this child who says they like to hit their friends...we have sat this child down to miss play time for a few minutes,--this child likes to sit alone...while we try to talk to this child--we get laughed in the face..annd worst of all, the child's parents actl ike they dont care when we talk to them...any ideas???
 
That is aweful for that child! What about getting Social Services involved? Do you know if you have a good system for kids? Why do people have children if they don't care for them???????

Sorry, small rant there.
 
the boss thinks he cares....just doesnt know how to show it or something..just seems like whatever we say falls on deaf ears....it just seems like a long day with this child so we need to figure out something!
 
I would use the 1,2,3 counting method for minor infractions; e.g. bothering another student, not following directions. Every minor infraction the teacher counts and when the teacher gets to three he/she will get a four minute time out. If they get out of the chair before time is up, get the child care director or another teacher to put him/her in another room alone with the teacher. For hitting, spitting or pinching you would automatically say 1,2,3 and give the child the time out.

If this doesn't work you might try giving the child one M & M for every ten minutes. Make a visual on a piece of paper and draw a star or put on a sticker after every 10 minutes has elapsed with no infractions.

You might also try talking to director about denying daycare if a time out or positive reinforcement doesn't work. Other children have a right to be protected from physical contact.
 

chipmunk--thanks! im leaving for work in a few minutes and will try the 1,2,3..i will also talk to the other teacher about the M&M..thanks!
 
I feel for you and don't have any suggestions. I would just watch this very closely and continue to tell the parents. Something is wrong and eventually it's going to get to a point where they can't ignore it.

As a parent who has had two children in daycare, at any given time, one of my children was a *victim* of this type of child. And I sat by for months watching the daycare director do everything they could to keep the hitting child integrated in the class. Unfortunately, it seems that these children don't improve because obviously there is not the reinforcement at home. All of us parents breathed a great sigh of relief when the kid(s) finally had to be dismissed from the daycare center. Please be aware that some of the parents of the other children are probably feeling resentment but keeping quiet. You need to address this. The kids do go home and tell there parents what is going on.

I also have a guy in my office who is the parent of a 3 year old "hitter, bitter, kicker, linebacker." He gets calls almost daily from the day care center. He goes in for conferences once a month. People have suggested there is a *problem.* Well he just goes nuts and thinks his son is just an "active boy." Uuuuggh, makes me sick.
 
I had to sign an agreement that if my son hurt other kids or was unruly, they could "expel" him from the center.

My son is pretty passive and doesn't hit, kick, etc., and if another child there did this, i'd expect something to be done about it. You may need to videotape the behaivor and show the parent.

I like the idea of positive reinforcement (M & M's) and hope something like that may work.
 
While I understand and support your efforts to modify this child's
behavior, I hope you are protecting the other children. At my
DS's daycare/preschool, they had a child with horrible behavioral
problems get a one on one child care provider and the parents
had to pay for it OR remove the child from the center. The child
really needed a loving person they could trust with them at all
times. She was disruptive and hurting the other children as well
as talking the attention of one teacher all the time. What does
your director say?
 
I would try positive reinforcement. Make a chart and for each 10 minutes he is able to sit next to someone without hitting,etc. he gets a sticker or star. At the end of the morning if he has been successful 8 out of 10 times he gets "something"- 15 minutes to play with what he wants or a story read to him by the teacher of his choice. Do it again for the afternoon. Once it seems to be under control cut out the noon one and lengthen it.
I would also get the director involved. There needs to be a meeting between the parents and the preschool. They need to know you are willing to work on this for a period of 2 weeks and if there is no improvement they will need to find an alternate school. Have them sign a paper and keep the behavior mod chart in case they try to sue or something afterward. There should be something about how negative behaviors and dismissal from the school will be handled in the school handbook.
 
well i talked to the other teacher in my room..we are going to start on the positive reinforcement....
the director is aware and called the parents today..it was a bit b etter today than usual...not much, but a bit...
thanks so much for everyones advice...
hopefully it continues to get better!
 
My daughter had a boy like hat in her preschool class and everytime the mother was told she just laughed it off saying "oh he is gifted and just showing that he is bored"...oh please!! Finally they were told that if they didn't come in for a meeting with a psychologist he would not be allowed back into the school...they wouldn't do it so out of school he went.
 
when i was teaching daycare, I had a 4 yr. old boy who was unusually agressive. For whatever reason I just loved this kid and didn't want to see him kicked out of the school. I decided to give him extra attention. Soon I realized that's all he wanted. Why I didn't realize it earlier is beyond me. He would socialize, but quickly started to punch, or ruin the other kids toys. I started sitting with him at the art table everyday and we talked about what he liked and how his day was. I gave him alot of extra attention. I made him my first student for the month and he helped pass out napkins, helped with lunch and snack. He helped the other kids put away toys, art work, etc. It was such a success that I started making every kid a helper of the month. We put up his/her name on the board, with a photo, artwork, and an interview of his/her favorite things. I even had the previous kid pick out the next student of the month (as long as they hadn't already been picked). As for my little tough guy, he turned out to be a pretty nice kid and after awhile didn't seem to need the attention as much. Then the other kids started playing with him again and I faded into the background.:teeth:
 
Positive reinforcement works the best. Like in Poohtowns case, often all they want is attention, and giving the extra attention helps. However, it needs to be for good things. If the only attention he's getting is when he gets in trouble, he's going to learn that that's how he can get your attention. So the problems will continue.

Also, find something positive that will motivate him to do good. Is their some activity he absolutely loves but doesn't get to do much? Give him extra time at it when he has a good day. Talk to him without talking about the problem...ask him about his day, what he likes to do, etc.

And remember, no matter what, you have to be consistent. If you make a promise that you have to go back on, nothing will have been gained. Follow through on any reward or punishment you use.

I wish you the best of luck!
 
alright--im going to try starting the e xtra attention tomorrow....i appreciate your guys help..i just didnt know hwo to ask!!
 
I think poohtown is on the right track. Sometimes it helps to think about what is motivating a child's behavior. What is he gaining by being aggressive? In what situations is he aggressive? In what situations is he typically not aggressive? Your interventions will likely have a greater chance of being successful if they target the function of the behavior.

If you think he is doing this to gain attention, give him attention whenever he demonstrates appropriate behavior (i.e., praise, sticker chart, etc).

If you think he is doing this because he is frustrated, teach him more appropriate ways to express his anger (using his words, drawing, etc.)

If you think that he uses aggression socially because that is his primary means of interacting, teach him social skills and appropriate ways to play with other children (direct instruction, modeling, etc).

If you think he is being aggressive so he can escape the situation, reward him with down time if he has been appropriate.

Children can be challenging to work with. Good luck! :D
 
Is this a younger 4 yo, or an older 4 yo? There are vast differences between those two ages... One is usually barely out of diapers, while the other is going into PreK. This is going to be long, sorry. I hope it helps some.

I have taught both groups, and have had children just like yours in the past... at that age, when they are verbal, they are acting out for attention almost always. It's different when a non-verbal (2yo or the like) is spitting and hitting, they don't know any other way to get across their feelings - and are in an oral stage still. But a 4 yo, esp an older 4 yo, knows that using physical means to communicate is not acceptable, and that they must use their words to express their feelings. I am assuming you believe he is developmentally up to speed, and not delayed in any way...

I, often, dialogued with my 3yo - PreK students about using our WORDS not our HANDS to show others how we are feeling. We often talked about appropriate ways in which to do so. We did this both in group time, but also in one on one interactions. We did not use timeout in our room for the most part, with PreK students, but encouraged the children to work little tiffs out between each other using their WORDS. Of course, we were preparing them for Kindergarten, I would not use that for children not entering into K soon... your 4 yo may not be that old, yet.

He is crying out for attention in some way... and he's not stupid, either. He KNOWS mom and dad don't give a rip about what he does, and he's not getting any guidance from them on this issue. Because of that, your hands are tied ALOT. Without parental support, we're often helpless, and the kids know that. You can't threaten talks with mom, because he doesnt' care... obviously he enjoys time alone, so that doesn't work either. These children often work through these attention issues as they get older because their peers learn that they dont have to be their friend and play with them... you know? When they reach PreK age, friends become very important, and this child will soon find himself isolated because his classmates will no longer want him near them, and these kind of children often figure out their methods for attention aren't working anymore, and change their ways.

When I had a PreK child that did this, I put them in a quiet area in which they had something productive to work on, but protected my other children. It may not have been discipline to him, per say, but it protected my other children, and that is my job. This child, believe it or not, did quickly tire of playing alone when it become a constant thing. Esp when they are able to see the others playing something fun, that they are not allowed to participate in. I worked to not give the child much attention when they were acting out, but just removed them from the situation and left them alone. I told them that they were choosing to play alone now, because they chose to hurt their friends. It's important to emphasis CHOICES. BUT, when I did see the child doing something good, I doted on them over and over again. Right now, he's getting all the attention when he acts out... why should he change? if he stops, more than likely, he'll just blend back into the classroom and have no more attention than anyone else. more than likely, his parents don't give much at home, either.

I think it comes from a combination of just quickly isolating that child, and ignoring him. Let him play alone, and make sure that no one gives him any attention... when he acts up in group time or in group activities, simply excuse him to his quiet area. Remind him again that he's choosing to not be apart of the group. The other children deserve the activities without his interruption. If he gets ignored enough, he will soon realize that his method is no longer working... just be sure to shower him with positive attention whenever it is merited, above and beyond what you normally give to others. As long as you don't isolate the other children from ever getting special treatments, they will more than likely not even notice you're spending more one on one time with this child, because they don't long for it the same way he does... they are content playing in groups. Find what sparks his interest, watch him play. Bring in something just for him to do, maybe a game just for the two of you, or a book you can read together. There is something that he does enjoy, and once you find that, you can concentrate on building that positive excitement until he becomes so spoiled by that positive attention and the rewards that come with it, that the negatives aren't as appealing.

I would not do any public awards for him that you dont do for other children... if you do something with rewards, you either need to make it completely private between you and him, which is going to be hard with that age, or make it a classwide project. Just because the other children are doing what they are supposed to be doing doesn't mean they should be left out of rewards... everyone should be rewarded for positive behavior, if a few are... you know? At this age, it's very important to be fair.

In the end, if it truly is a daily thing and you give it a few weeks and no headway is made, you need to seriously speak with your director about expelling him. No one wants to do that, but it's not fair to other children and to you to deal with something that you're getting no support on.

Continue to check in DAILY with your director, and even keep a notebook on his behavior each day... note things that strike his interest, things that don't work, how he handles certain situations, things that set him off, people he doesn't mesh well with, etc. Date it, and be specific. if it ever comes to a time in which expellsion is necessary, this will be helpful for the director to present to the parents, and for the parents to read. If they ever show any interest in his daily behavior, it is something you can copy each day and place in his cubby as well.

Good luck to you... Gosh, I have been there and it is so hard to deal with day in and day out. Keep us updated!
 
Tigerbear had some great suggestions. :) I think that if you are going to implement a behavior plan, you need to inform the parents first. And also let them know that ultimately their child could be expelled if the physical acting out continues.
 
How is the child's communication skills? Does he talk? Does he interact with the children in other ways, including verbal? When I taught preschool, I had a child in my class who threw toys. We talked to him, talked to his parents, did timeout, etc. He also didn't care a bit when he was pulled out of the group. He also was close to nonverbal yet obviously very bright and didn't play with the other children. I was sure that he had a real biological problem, and he did. He was diagnosed with high functioning autism when he was 6.

I got really frustrated with his parents, too, but in retrospect I think they cared plenty but were at their wit's end.
 














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