Question for experienced small dog people re: lap guarding

We had a similar situation. Our female GSD is about 9 and is a rescue who is a wonderful, calm, loyal dog today. We finally got a cardigan welsh corgi puppy about a year ago and it has been an awesome fit. We purposely looked for a submissive calm female. The corgi curls up with our GSD and is completely accepted by her and the corgi loves to sit in our laps. The corgi is also a herding dog like the GSD which helps.
 
We have a multi dog household. Two chihuahuas, two spaniels and an old retired greyhound. With one exception, they live in peace and harmony.

The chihuahuas are both adopted from the local shelter. Isobel first and now, her horrific brother, Elvis. :confused:

He's not really horrific but he has been a test in patience for me, that's for sure. Iz will sit on my lap all day long and that's what she's doing right now. She doesn't bother anyone.

Elvis will sit on my lap all day long with Iz. He'll be fine if the spaniels come up (females) but would turn into psycho dog if Willy (greyhound) did. His behavior didn't begin until a few weeks after we adopted him. I tried directing his attention, and didn't work. I've been bit more than once putting my hand between Elvis and Willy's face.

Now, we're doing something differently. I'm training Elvis "down" and when Willy is walking up to me, he gets down. On the floor, he's not aggressive to Willy at all and they'll even play together occasionally. I no longer allow Elvis on my lap if Willy approaches.

It seems to be getting better.
 
As you probably know, we have a "pack" of hounds (seven, although only four in the house), two of whom are very reactive females. We also have a Boston Terrier, which is a breed that I would consider a large small dog (vs a lap dog). They all will tolerate him and vice versa, but only because, I think, that he knows that he's outnumbered ;).

We have had friends visit bringing over a variety of breeds, and it seems as though whenever a lap dog starts to "guard" its owner on the couch, our reactive females go into overdrive and would kill it as soon as look at it. And we have a GSD in the dog class I'm training now that makes my reactive females look down right mellow, so I'm thinking that it does a disservice to a GSD who has learned to be good to "taunt" it with a smaller dog.

Some of the worst fights I've seen in house have been bickering over couch space (to the point that mine are now trained that they are only allowed up when I "invite" one of them up). I know people love the idea of cuddling with a small dog, but if there are other dogs in the household, it seems to lead to trouble more times than not.

I hate to sound prejudicial, but I think that you would need an extremely "couch potato" nonreactive small(er) dog, and they are as hard to find as a needle in a haystack. Otherwise, it has to be "dogs on the same level" aka the ground.

Terri
 
I have a yorkie and 2 shepherds who get along great. If I'm sitting down the yorkie is in my lap, she is my dog. If a person comes over she doesn't mind at all, she has never once been aggressive, but when one of the shepherds (or any dog) tries to invade she'll "charge". The thing is the big dogs don't really mind, she'll jump up and tell them to back off a little , which they do, then they sort of just ignore her. My older shepherd respects her place as leader and the puppy who is 4 months now is learning that he cannot under any circumstances be ruff with her. Considering she is only 6 pounds I think this is a good thing for when we're all out in the yard the big guys know to watch out for her and not step on her. I have to add actually I'm the " leader" and my rule is be careful of Teagan! :)
 

We have a 100lb yellow lab and a 3 lb toy yorkie.

The lab is 9 we have had him since a puppy and the yorkie is 6 months we got her in Nov. It was supposed to be a gift from my dad to my 13 year old dd and well guess who really takes care of her. Me.:rolleyes:BUT I love her to death she is now my baby and sits on my lap all the time and sleep with me. I think if I give my lab attention she does get jealous and has to be right there but she hasn't bit him FOR that anyway. She is a true ankle bitter and will chase him around the house biting his ankles. SO I think it is possible just depends on the dog.
 
I have a miniature Daschaund, she's not lap aggressive at all.
 
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So many thoughts running through my head reading all of your posts.

Thank you for all of your responses.

The Mystery Machine, I agree. There is something about my dog that other dogs react to also, even "nice" dogs and even when she's calm/submissive. We've had it happen often when we're out for walks, or stationary/tied to a fence, where other dogs have come up and attacked her. Although it doesn't happen all the time, just with certain dogs. It's a weird phenomenon that took me a long time to figure out/understand. Dogs really do have their own language that we're not always privy to.

A few months ago, I was on here looking for advice regarding adopting a 3 year old Australian Shepherd that turned out to be very much a "one person dog", the type that tried to bite my DD twice, bit my DH once, kept going at my 3 year old female GSD, and grabbed one of our cats and gave it the death shake (and it only dropped the cat when I held out a treat) all just to keep anyone from coming near me, the only person it attached to.

When the dogs met at the shelter, there were a couple of very subtle incidents that did make me wonder if this was a good fit, but the shelter people all reassured my family that this dog came from a home with two other dogs, it loved dogs and cats, was great with people, etc., etc. All it needed was time to get used to us and our dog. I suppose they were only going on what they had been told when the owners surrendered the dog, so I should not fault them.

The concensus here, for I did come here for advice, was that it was in the best interest of my GSD that was already in the family to return this new dog to the shelter. I even had my present dog's in-home dog trainer come to my home to try to help, but she also said to return the dog. Though it broke my heart, we did take him back. In hindsight, I only wish I had never even brought the dog home.

We tried for 9 days, and in that 9 days, the tension level in my home had risen so much, that it was like a breath of quiet air hit us all in the face the morning after the dog went back. My Shepherd girl was not shaking, her teeth weren't chattering, she wasn't looking around the corner in fear, the cats weren't cowering, etc. I am so, so sorry that we let down the other dog, but the advice here of what was best for my present dog was truly spot-on.

Pea-n-me, you mentioned that your present GSD is a bit "different". Mine is also, bad start in life, no socialization, scared of everything (but has improved with training and love, and is very different than when she came here!) but she really, really enjoys playing with her stable temperament dog buddies. She does not do well with any type of aggressive or dominant dog, and we came to the conclusion that we just could not go on what a few minutes meeting at a shelter would become when it turned into days in our home.

Plus, we were apparently black-listed from all the local shelters because we returned the dog:confused3. We did try to adopt again, but no shelter would even call us after any applications were sent.

Knowing how much our dog does like having a playmate, and the fact that her Maine Coon buddy is not going to be allowed outside to run with her, we adopted an 8 week old pure-bred German Shepherd male puppy. Best thing we ever did!

Our girl is so happy, adores her little "brother", and he adores her. They play, occasionally have a little tussle, but she isn't afraid of him, which is wonderful for us. He is 13 weeks now, and weighs 42.8 pounds, so he will be huge (she is small, only 52 pounds), but I know they will be best buddies until the end.

I am glad I put my girl's comfort over my desire to save that other dog, and I do wish that we had been able to save a shelter dog, but it was not meant to be. Perhaps, if we had been able to adopt a younger shelter dog, the outcome may have been different. I suppose, when you have a resident dog at home that does need a little extra consideration, it is harder to find the right fit.

I wish you good luck, Pea-n-me, in finding a friend for your Shepherd. I do believe you made a good choice in not taking the lap-dog, and in taking into consideration your present dog's comfort level. I know how hard it is to want to help another dog and not follow your heart, but rather following what your brain is telling you. Your present dog is lucky to have owners that want was is truly best for her!:)

p.s. - regarding wanting a lap dog, my little boy GSD, the one that is 42.8 pounds at 13 weeks, he desires to be a lap dog. Not sure how I feel about a dog that will eventually be over 100 pounds being a lap dog, but he sure is darn cute when he asks to cuddle in, unfortunately for him, we don't allow him on the sofa, but I don't think he will need the sofa to get in our laps, as he will be very huge very soon!
What a hard experience. I understand completely. We've had it happen before, too, years ago. That's why I knew it was most important to go by my head and not my heart. Hard when emotions are pulling at your heartstrings. My kids, especially, really wanted the dog, and even though I explained things to them, it was hard for them to see it. I just read them your post and it confirmed all we'd talked about.

We got our current dog as a puppy as well when we were turned down in getting a rescue GSD that we wanted because my kids, at the time, weren't 7yo yet. She wasn't reactive when we got her. I'd taken my elderly male GSD with us to pick her out, and they were great together. At home, too. I think what happened (after years of trying to analyze this) is that my DH took her down to our back (stockade) fence one day to meet our neighbor's two dogs (who had gotten along fine with my two Shepherds we'd had at that time). They were quiet, and she couldn't see them really. As soon as she got to the fence, they went wild barking and snarling, jumping, etc. It scared her so much she peed all over my DH. :( After that, she became reactive to other dogs, and most times reaction is fear-based. It took many years to teach her that nothing bad was going to happen when she saw another dog (which is why it was frustrating for other dogs to come after her).

I trained her myself, but we also did group training with her for a long time. We also took her to a special trainer for sensitive dogs. We learned what types of dogs she liked and what type she didn't. Hyper dogs and sporting breeds caused her to react, while calm and other types of dogs usually didn't. But we continued to work with her and socialize her and take her places over the years, which wasn't always easy - unlike the last two GSDs I had, who were friendly to all dogs. (I've had 6 GSDs total over the course of my lifetime, so it's become instinctual working with them.) Today I think she's confident and tolerant, barely reacts when she sees another dog, maybe a whimper or a limited bark. She seemed to actually like this dog, even after it bit her. (Brat!) The shelter manager gave her a nice compliment saying she was the nicest GSD she'd ever met :lovestruc adding they see some tough ones in there and she herself was a little hesitant about Shepherds anyway. (I'd explained ahead of time she could be reactive so I think she was a little nervous about it!) That was part of what made me feel like she (and I) deserve some peace in our lives at this point.

Is your GS allowed on the furniture? If not, I might second guess the lap dog as it would instantly establish dominance. If yes, then I think maybe its just about finding the right fit which you'll know as soon as you do.
Good point. She doesn't really go on the furniture. Just at night when some of us are in bed and some aren't, she positions herself on the living room sofa so she can "see" each area of the house. Once we're all in bed, she goes upstairs and sleeps on the floor in the hallway outside of our bedrooms, or in our bedroom. (Has beds both places.) We sometimes stay at a house that has a lap dog that sleeps with us, and we enjoy it. But our dog is not there for this, and this dog does get possessive of the furniture and beds even with people. But I think that's what got us thinking about it.

We had a similar situation. Our female GSD is about 9 and is a rescue who is a wonderful, calm, loyal dog today. We finally got a cardigan welsh corgi puppy about a year ago and it has been an awesome fit. We purposely looked for a submissive calm female. The corgi curls up with our GSD and is completely accepted by her and the corgi loves to sit in our laps. The corgi is also a herding dog like the GSD which helps.
I like Corgis. My DS really likes them. I am most comfortable with herding breeds, too, I guess you could say. Something to think about. At this point, we may wind up with another GSD. They are not usually lap dogs (none of mine have been, anyway - they like being right near you, but not on you) puppies notwithstanding. ;)

I think that you would need an extremely "couch potato" nonreactive small(er) dog, and they are as hard to find as a needle in a haystack. Otherwise, it has to be "dogs on the same level" aka the ground.
I think you're right. We'll see what happens. We're not in any hurry to make any decision.
 
Hahal, see my response above (which I started writing a few hours ago!)

My boy is very much like your girl and you actually suggested two books to me a few years ago. It helped a lot. Kato was also spooked by other dogs as a pup and he developed a fear of them, too. It has taken a lot of training and he is so much better but not 100%.

We want another and I'd love to rescue one, too, but I won't compromise his comfort. He is such a perfect dog, so well behaved. I don't want to add a new one to stress him out.

I think you did the right thing but I also understand how it tugs at your heart.
 
I have 2 rat terriers, who live on our laps. Neither of them is "lap aggressive".
 













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