Question for Atheists/Non Praying

[bicker]

I have no problem speaking to anyone's "God" for them if they ask. .... Then I say a small prayer to their God for them.

This brings up another interesting (IMHO) subject: Is praying to "someone else's God" actually respecting them, or disrespecting them? It is part of a larger question, along the lines of whether it is disrespectful to a religion to subscribe to selected portions of its canon.

We UUs do this, as a matter of course: We draw upon the canon of a wide variety of spiritual belief, capitalizing on whatever wisdom may be out there that is consistent with the principles of our faith. So in our basic prayer book, you may see some Psalms right out of the Old Testament, but other portions of the Old Testament would be considered inappropriate, because they reflect belief contrary to the principles of our faith.

In a way, from an external perspective, Christianity does this as well: Subscribing to some portions of the Old Testament but deliberately declaring some portions of the Old Testament as non-applicable to their faith.

If Hollywood is to be believed (and in this case, my understanding is that it was very accurate), Gandhi did this, "read[ing] from the Muslim Koran and the Hindu Gita, moving from one to the other as though it mattered not at all which book was read as long as God was worshipped."

I've done a little of this myself. I'm a UU Pantheist, though I was brought up Jewish, a Bar Mitzvah, etc. At the B'nai Mitvot of children in my family, I have been called to the torah. I appreciate the honor an aliyah represents, and say the prayers, even though they are not consistent with my faith. In the case of the aliyah, I say the prayers principally out of respect for (generally, the parents of) the Bar Mitzvah. At my mother's funeral, I prayed the Mourner's Kaddish, and will do so again at the unveiling of her monument. Again, I don't do this because I believe in the significance of the prayer, but rather because I believe in the significance of the prayer to (in this case) my mother -- it is a gesture of respect and love for her, not for the prayer or the belief system it comes from.

So I wonder what people think about this: Is saying a prayer that you don't necessarily "believe in" respectful, disrespectful, or does it depend on your underlying motivations, and if the latter, are some of the motivations I alluded to above acceptable, and other unacceptable?

 

[MushyMushy]

I always tell people that I'll keep them in my thoughts. I'm not comfortable lying about it, even if it would provide comfort. But I haven't been put in that position of being asked by someone who knows that I'm an atheist, so I don't know... maybe being put on the spot like that would prompt me to lie.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Atheists are also compassionate people. Under those circumstances, most would probably not use that as an opportunity to educate the person on their personal beliefs. Besides, prayer is a type of meditation, so that is basically what they are doing when focusing on sending good thoughts and well wishes.

 

[GeorgeG]

I simply say I will keep them in my thoughts. I do not pray, ever, but if we were to go about splitting hairs on the subject, we might say that our thoughts are the purest form of prayer. If there is a God, that God would know our thoughts as well as our prayers.

Most people I know are aware that I am an atheist. Some are confounded at how I can be an atheist and still be a good person. That's for them to figure out. If they insist I pray with or for them (often it's "won't you do it just for me?") I will again say I will keep them in my thoughts rather than lie.

As we evolve there are more of us who decide to be atheists or agnostics. Very slowly, more people are realizing we are not evil and just accept us for who we are. But, it's a slow process that has taken place over the past handful of decades. Not bad when you consider it took Christians three centuries to be accepted.

 

[JodyLynC]

My definition of "God" is a creative energy. I believe that our thoughts and feelings affect this energy. If someone asks for a "prayer," I will give them one. My definition of a "prayer" is sending out love and positive thoughts.

So I am not praying to a specific "God." I am sending out positive thoughts into the Universe.

 

[Pigeon]

The way i look at it...and i AM a Christian....is this:
Just be polite and pray to the Father,Son and Holy Ghost, the Trinity as the vast majority of Christians believe. Or,
Remember also that, Jewish and even Muslims pray to the same God as Christians, there is just some "other" differences and Jesus being one of them..I always joke with my Jewish friends that if it werent for Jesus, we'd have pretty much the same religion..
I have always thought: "Well, what IF there is nothing to pray to? Am i wasting my time? But in the end, we NEED Faith. It is all we have. That and salvation.
I can honestly say i HAVE had prayers answered and i am close to God.
But i would NEVER judge one who isnt. That IS your right and i hope that someday you DO end up a believer but if not...Again, You have your individual rights and no one can take them away.
But to answer your question....Just be nice and do it. Even if you dont feel comfortable. Remember, this person needs HELP. Just give him/her some.
Also, YES i do believe a non praying person can be GREAT, both inside and out. And care and be decent and loving.

You look at it this way because you are Christian. You may "NEED" faith. Others have no need at all for it.

If one thinks an activity is fundamentally ridiculous, why would one do it? I'd no more pray to your Christian god for somebody than I would sacrifice a goat to Zeus for them.

I'm all for helping people who need it, but performing meaningless activities to mythical beings doesn't cut it. Instead, I offer to drive them to medical appointments, watch their kids, cook them meals, etc., and I send positively themed cards to let them know that I care about them.

If asked to pray by someone who knows that I'm not religious, I offer concrete help and tell them I'll be thinking of them. I don't lie to them.

 

[ols386]

If someone is in a difficult or trying situation, and they ask you to pray for them or their loved one, that's a time when it's ok to tell a white lie and agree to pray, because it may provide some comfort to that individual just for you to say that you will pray. If you don't feel comfortable with this, then just say you will keep them in your thoughts and well wishes. I think the main thing with a situation like this, is that you want to show compassion and comfort to the individual.

 

[GeorgeG]

If someone is in a difficult or trying situation, and they ask you to pray for them or their loved one, that's a time when it's ok to tell a white lie and agree to pray, because it may provide some comfort to that individual just for you to say that you will pray. If you don't feel comfortable with this, then just say you will keep them in your thoughts and well wishes. I think the main thing with a situation like this, is that you want to show compassion and comfort to the individual.[/QUOTE]

See how simple it really is?

 

[Nparrotte]

You look at it this way because you are Christian. You may "NEED" faith. Others have no need at all for it.

If one thinks an activity is fundamentally ridiculous, why would one do it? I'd no more pray to your Christian god for somebody than I would sacrifice a goat to Zeus for them.

I'm all for helping people who need it, but performing meaningless activities to mythical beings doesn't cut it. Instead, I offer to drive them to medical appointments, watch their kids, cook them meals, etc., and I send positively themed cards to let them know that I care about them.

If asked to pray by someone who knows that I'm not religious, I offer concrete help and tell them I'll be thinking of them. I don't lie to them.

I agree... I don't pray just b/c someone who does, wants me to but I will always show compassion and help out when needed.

Why would there even be a need to question if someone does not pray or if they are atheist are they a good or caring person. I don't think that there should be any connection between one's moral compass and what their beliefs are. What about the Catholic priests that were caught molesting little boys. I don't want to start a heated debate I am just saying that just b/c you believe in God or do not believe, does not automatically make you a good or bad person.

 

[Liberty Belle]

The way i look at it...and i AM a Christian....is this:
Just be polite and pray to the Father,Son and Holy Ghost, the Trinity as the vast majority of Christians believe. Or,
Remember also that, Jewish and even Muslims pray to the same God as Christians, there is just some "other" differences and Jesus being one of them..I always joke with my Jewish friends that if it werent for Jesus, we'd have pretty much the same religion..
I have always thought: "Well, what IF there is nothing to pray to? Am i wasting my time? But in the end, we NEED Faith. It is all we have. That and salvation.
I can honestly say i HAVE had prayers answered and i am close to God.
But i would NEVER judge one who isnt. That IS your right and i hope that someday you DO end up a believer but if not...Again, You have your individual rights and no one can take them away.
But to answer your question....Just be nice and do it. Even if you dont feel comfortable. Remember, this person needs HELP. Just give him/her some.
Also, YES i do believe a non praying person can be GREAT, both inside and out. And care and be decent and loving.

I am a Christian also, and I would never want someone to pray who was uncomfortable with it.

 

[acm563]

Very interesting thread here and I have to say I cannot imagine anyone asking someone who does not believe in a "God" to pray for them, what would be the point? I am a "Christian" as in I have a relationship with the God who created me , but I am against organized religion as we see it today. From my viewpoint we all have Christs love in us, it is part of that moral compass, it is what we sometimes call our conscience, it is so many things. I loved the responses that say they would take a person to dr's appts, help out as they can etc etc, because even if you are an Atheist you are fulfilling what God calls the 2nd commandment which is to love your neighbor as yourself and if you do these things then you have taken care of all of the rest aside from loving the lord your God with all your heart. As for believing in Christ as the son of God etc etc, believing in God etc that doesnt require Christianity at all because even the Devil believes and trembles. I think sometimes "Christians" mistake Atheism for Satanism and they are two separate things as an atheist does not believe in Satan's existence any more than they believe in Gods...
Prayers are not always spoken so to say I will keep you in my thoughts would indeed be a polite and honest way of validating this request without compromising your belief system.

 

[GeorgeG]

Very interesting thread here and I have to say I cannot imagine anyone asking someone who does not believe in a "God" to pray for them, what would be the point?

You would think...

We had some good friends who became your basic born again bible thumpers. They knew very well that I was an atheist, but twice they asked me to be godfather to their children. I was flattered that they thought that much of me, but puzzled at their logic. After politely declining, they asked if I would do it just for them. I still declined and wondered if they expected me to pretend to believe just for the occasion. After all, I do believe there is something to that effect as a requirement for such things.

Eventually, their bible thumping drove a wedge between us. That's sad because they were good friends and we accepted them up untill they started insisting we conform. What's even sadder is that for all the praying they do, they still experience tragedy in their lives.

 

[Bluestars]

You can say "I will keep you in my thoughts and hope for the very best". It's simple and shows that you care IMO.

I agree. I don't think it is even necessary to mention that you don't pray or any of your personal beliefs.

Years ago at work we were passing around a birthday card for everyone to sign. One girl told me she wasn't going to sign it because she didn't believe in celebrating birthdays. I remember thinking that you don't have to have the same beliefs as someone else to write "Have a great day." There was no need at all for her to mention her personal beliefs. That was not necessary.

 

[MyManGoofy!]

I guess you could call me an atheist. I hover between that and agnostic, but a hard lean on atheism. Anyway - this has happened to me. I love this person dearly and he was under a tremendous strain. I did offer my best wishes and he in return asked that I just say a prayer. It was no big thing for me because although it didn't mean diddly squat to me - I knew it meant something to him. Ya know?

Honestly though, I am not sure that I would react the same way if it was someone I did not care about asking me.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

I would tend to agree with the person who said he or she might tell a little white lie and say "okay" - depending on who it was who asked. If it was somebody I didn't know well, or someone who I just didn't want to discuss my beliefs (or lack of them) with, I might just say, yes, I'll pray for you even though I won't. I can't imagine that anyone who knows me very well would ask, but if they did I'd just offer to keep them in my thoughts - and probably ask if there are some practical things I can do.

A PP mentioned being asked to be a godfather. I have been asked to be a godmother twice, and I did agree to take on the role even though I am not religious. I felt that the parents asking me were seeking to honour me, and I appreciated that. Apparently in their churches, it was okay to have a non-religious godparent as long as the other godparent was religious, and I was simply asked to agree to support and encourage the parents in raising the children (while the other godparent agreed to support the child in learning about the church, etc.).

May I just add that I find the religious discussions here on the DIS very interesting! Most of my friends are either non-religious or are members of less mainstream religious communities (UU, Wiccan, Pagan, as well as some Mormons, etc.) so I find it interesting to learn more about the things people believe in.

Teresa

 

[bookgirl]

I'm agnostic, I say "I'll keep you in my thoughts" or even "I'll be hopeing all things positive for you".