Pulling kids out of school for a WDW trip

[amberpi]

Hi amberpi, everyone should be treated equally, especially in our education systems for children. I would like to believe that this is the case. To teach kids outright that you will not be treated equally seems very defeating. IMHO we all have the same opportunities it just depends on how you choose to take them or what path you take. Everone has bad things happen to them in life. Sorry if I got too philosophical. JMHO.
It was not my intent to get some people so upset about this. This is a subjective topic and warranted good discussion. I respect everyone's opinions.

My only point was "should be equal" and "are equal" even in public school aren't really true; regardless of how we'd like the world to be. I mean, lots of my friends wanted to go to Key West or Italy, but your folks had to pay for those "educational" trips. The resources/opportunities kids who go to private school may be much more significant than the public school kids. I don't know if it's right or wrong to teach kids more about equality or more that the world isn't fair. I know what I do right now, but it could change tomorrow as I try to stay open to other (and hopefully better) opinions.

I love the discussion too though and don't think anyone has their knickers in a twist on this one too much It's a good day in Disland.

 

[Princessclab]

Looking at the bolded... don't all kids have the opportunities to join the band, chorus, sports teams, whatever so they can go on these trips? My kids' middle school takes all kids who have all A's through the year to a nearby (2 hour drive) amusement park for one day at the end of the year. Is that "unfair" to those who didn't get all A's?

Disney trips aren't the source of "consequences". It wouldn't matter if the kids go to Disney or stay home playing Xbox. Those school systems are set up so if you miss 'x' days, you're punished. Some schools allow "educational" trips, others don't. Don't like the school policy? Either get it changed or move.

You raise good points but IMO it is a comparison of apples and oranges (sorry for the cliché). I am not sure what you mean by your comment I bolded. Getting all 'A's' is VERY commendable and should be rewarded but, IMHO, does not have anything to do with opportunities. Everyone has the equal opportunity to get all 'A's".

In our school all kids can try out for the band or play in some band but the performing bands have try outs. A kid may not have musical talent, not be chosen for cheerleading etc. so their opportunities are not at school so they are not given the opportunity to 'go on the these trips'. Does that mean they can't be a musician? No they may need to find other options outside of school, another path.
However, back to my original point, any time kids are out of school for non-essential educational reason should be allowed for all.

Again, my intent was not to upset you; the hypocrisy that is accepted is concerning and does impact our kids.
Also my intent was to get opinions on this not to bring laws into this. (I brought it back...lol)

 

[sam_gordon]

You raise good points but IMO it is a comparison of apples and oranges (sorry for the cliché). I am not sure what you mean by your comment I bolded. Getting all 'A's' is VERY commendable and should be rewarded but, IMHO, does not have anything to do with opportunities. Everyone has the equal opportunity to get all 'A's".

In our school all kids can try out for the band or play in some band but the performing bands have try outs. A kid may not have musical talent, not be chosen for cheerleading etc. so their opportunities are not at school so they are not given the opportunity to 'go on the these trips'. Does that mean they can't be a musician? No they may need to find other options outside of school, another path.
However, back to my original point, any time kids are out of school for non-essential educational reason should be allowed for all.

Again, my intent was not to upset you; the hypocrisy that is accepted is concerning and does impact our kids.
Also my intent was to get opinions on this not to bring laws into this. (I brought it back...lol)

First, I'm not upset. I like a good discussion. But your arguments about a kid not having musical talent, or be good enough for cheerleading can also be said about kids getting all A's. I'm sure there are kids who struggle to study, who don't have a good support system at home, or who just don't "get" school. You complained earlier about things not being "fair". But my point is they are "fair". Everyone has the same opportunity to join whatever club/class/group they want. But some will have to work harder than others in order to excel. Is that "fair"? Maybe not, but the school's have no control over that.

As far as the what you bolded on my quote, it matches what I bolded on yours. If I'm understanding you, since kids are excused to go on school sponsored trips (wherever), you say kids should be excused for anything. So if a child decides to stay home for a week playing Xbox, that should be ok? Or do you think there should be a "line" of what's a valid excuse and what's not?

 

[bellebud]

I think we also have to consider school schedules. Instructionally speaking it can be different for students who are taken out of class due to a school-sponsored event. This could be at a class or multi-class level or just specific students in specific activities. And that could be completely different for a student or even just a few students taken out for vacation. It's a lot easier for a teacher's lesson plan IMO to be worked around school-sponsored events than a student's given vacation.

All the Band, ROTC, Dance, Drama, football, basketball, etc students all had those obligations already known by the teachers and school alike and planning could be very different for that in comparison to a student whose parents took them on vacation.

I never thought of the times kids are out of school for "school sanctioned" trips. That's a perfect time for a family to take a trip also. Teachers are aware and have already adjusted their lesson plans. My kids are older now, but if they went to public school now, I'd simply find out when those trips are and try to take our trips then. Less hassle for the teachers.

 

[siren0119]

Looking at the bolded... don't all kids have the opportunities to join the band, chorus, sports teams, whatever so they can go on these trips? My kids' middle school takes all kids who have all A's through the year to a nearby (2 hour drive) amusement park for one day at the end of the year. Is that "unfair" to those who didn't get all A's?

Disney trips aren't the source of "consequences". It wouldn't matter if the kids go to Disney or stay home playing Xbox. Those school systems are set up so if you miss 'x' days, you're punished. Some schools allow "educational" trips, others don't. Don't like the school policy? Either get it changed or move.

Not in every school system, no.

In many schools these programs come with a program fee, practice outside of school hours, and big trips are not all expenses paid. There are low income programs available for those who qualify, but a HUGE swath of kids with parents in the middle/lower middle class who do not qualify for low income programs but who simply don't have any extra money to pay program fees and trip costs, or ability to get kids to or from practices outside of when school buses are available.

All kids have access to school - but not all kids have access to the extra stuff that is "technically" available to them.

 

[Hrhpd]

Very hypocritical and not an equal educational opportunity for all. They are all personal trips, again not pivotal for their education. Based on accepted personal choices; heaven forbid if your personal choices do not agree with the school system.
So those kids that get to go to WDW for playtime are entitled because the law says so but not the others who go to WDW with their parents? School playtime trumps parental playtime?
I'd be asking about that.
By the way, my nephew is out for a week of school in April with the marching band at his HS, going to WDW.

IMHO gives children an example that not everyone is treated equally and teaches those that go a bad lesson on entitlement.

If your personal choices do not agree with the public school system, you have plenty of other choices. You can home school, you can choose a private school that matches your philosophy better, or if you want to be drastic, move to another district that has polices more in line with your personal choices. You think it is hypocrisy, then walk away.

FWIW, our schools follow the absentee policy for school trips that is in place for personal trips. DS played varsity football and their Florida trip was in August, the week before school started. Another kid swam and their training week in some warm location was over Thanksgiving break every year. Marching bands and other spring sports/activities take their trips over Spring break. The 8th grade DC trip is always over spring break. There are no random trips during school allowed.

What is entitled is to think that a school should cater to each parent's personal preferences. If you don't like a school's policies, go elsewhere. Pretty simple.

 

[Hrhpd]

Oh, I am well aware that the policies are wrapped up in state laws. I am not sure exactly what ours is. Often these types of laws are ambiguous and subject to interpretation, hence the school and school board. They usually work together. Just because it is in the laws doesn't make it fair or right.

Also, Marching band is not a class in our school. Band yes, but not marching band that go on these trips. Did not say chorus but ours do not go on these trips.

Again, good discussion.

Just curious. You seem to single out band in every post. Did you have a child who had a bad experience with band? That would certainly color your perception of what is fair for all students and what isn't. Your posts have a certain element of jealousy that some children participate in things and some don't. But that is true in the real world too.

Some young adults of the generation that was raised to think that everything needs to be fair and equal are struggling in the adult world. Everyone should get the promotion, everyone should get equal pay, everyone should get equal vacations. They just don't realize that sometimes hard work, sometimes better natural skills, and sometimes luck of the draw may get someone else a benefit that they didn't get. And rather than working hard to achieve what they want, they whine that life is not fair. I see it too often these days with some of the helicoptered kids coming in to the work place.

 

[Princessclab]

This discussion has gone off the rails from its original intent so we can agree to disagree.
Again, really good discussion. My thanks to you all!

 

[LSUmiss]

Just curious. You seem to single out band in every post. Did you have a child who had a bad experience with band? That would certainly color your perception of what is fair for all students and what isn't. Your posts have a certain element of jealousy that some children participate in things and some don't. But that is true in the real world too.

Some young adults of the generation that was raised to think that everything needs to be fair and equal are struggling in the adult world. Everyone should get the promotion, everyone should get equal pay, everyone should get equal vacations. They just don't realize that sometimes hard work, sometimes better natural skills, and sometimes luck of the draw may get someone else a benefit that they didn't get. And rather than working hard to achieve what they want, they whine that life is not fair. I see it too often these days with some of the helicoptered kids coming in to the work place.

And some are motivated to fight injustice. It’s a delicate balance to teach children that sometimes things just don’t go there way & sometimes things are systemically unjust & need to be challenged.

 

[Hikergirl]

We've approached it that we've done what makes sense for our family/kids, and we've accepted any consequences without complaint.

This is what I think it boils down too.
As a parents we can do whatever we want for our kids when it comes to family vacation time.
As long as we are willing to accept any consequences without whining and complaining, then we can take them out during the school year.
If we aren't willing to do that then we should only take them out during breaks.

 

[GreatLakes]

If your personal choices do not agree with the public school system, you have plenty of other choices. You can home school, you can choose a private school that matches your philosophy better, or if you want to be drastic, move to another district that has polices more in line with your personal choices. You think it is hypocrisy, then walk away.

FWIW, our schools follow the absentee policy for school trips that is in place for personal trips. DS played varsity football and their Florida trip was in August, the week before school started. Another kid swam and their training week in some warm location was over Thanksgiving break every year. Marching bands and other spring sports/activities take their trips over Spring break. The 8th grade DC trip is always over spring break. There are no random trips during school allowed.

What is entitled is to think that a school should cater to each parent's personal preferences. If you don't like a school's policies, go elsewhere. Pretty simple.

So true. If you aren't good at <insert whatever here> you won't get the reward that those that are good at that thing get. It could be music, sports, sales, management, whatever. If the top salesmen at a company get a free trip as a reward the mediocre salesmen will have to stay home and deal with their failure. That's how the real world works.

When everyone is special no one is special.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I never thought of the times kids are out of school for "school sanctioned" trips. That's a perfect time for a family to take a trip also. Teachers are aware and have already adjusted their lesson plans. My kids are older now, but if they went to public school now, I'd simply find out when those trips are and try to take our trips then. Less hassle for the teachers.

If your goal is to turn an unexcused abscence into an excused one I doubt that would work..at least it wouldn't really work here.

If your goal is to make it easier on both the teacher and the student in terms of makeup work, lessens learns it could work depending on your disctrict and school and teacher. You'd have to discuss with them on that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This discussion has gone off the rails from its original intent so we can agree to disagree.
Again, really good discussion. My thanks to you all!

People are just trying to get to the bottom of your viewpoint. You opened the can of worms lol

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And some are motivated to fight injustice. It’s a delicate balance to teach children that sometimes things just don’t go there way & sometimes things are systemically unjust & need to be challenged.

I absolutely agree with that.

But frankly there are kids without access to bathrooms inside their schools, there are kids using torn, old, books in desperate need of replacing and then kids using iPads that have essentially replaced books, there are kids without working heat when really there should be or the converse where a/c should be needed, there are kids who have these amazing programs that other schools have never even known were possible and so many other things out there. The inequality exists in the schools in the U.S.

Whether taking a kid out of school for vacation is considered an excused abscence as well as the fact that someone in band is out of school and it's considered excused falls extremely low on that totem pole, at least IMO.

 

[LSUmiss]

So true. If you aren't good at <insert whatever here> you won't get the reward that those that are good at that thing get. It could be music, sports, sales, management, whatever. If the top salesmen at a company get a free trip as a reward the mediocre salesmen will have to stay home and deal with their failure. That's how the real world works.

When everyone is special no one is special.

Also in the “real world”, ppl are born with all kinds of disadvantages. Some can barely afford food & have inadequate parents, etc. Guess kids should just get used to that too. My point is that often it’s not just hard work & perseverance that make ppl successful but LUCK. There is an in-between “everyone is special” & “ too bad, you must not have worked hard enough”.

 

[LSUmiss]

I absolutely agree with that.

But frankly there are kids without access to bathrooms inside their schools, there are kids using torn, old, books in desperate need of replacing and then kids using iPads that have essentially replaced books, there are kids without working heat when really there should be or the converse where a/c should be needed, there are kids who have these amazing programs that other schools have never even known were possible and so many other things out there. The inequality exists in the schools in the U.S.

Whether taking a kid out of school for vacation is considered an excused abscence as well as the fact that someone in band is out of school and it's considered excused falls extremely low on that totem pole, at least IMO.

I agree 100%. I was speaking more to the general comments that the pp made that young adults today whine b/c they think life should be “fair”. I think many ppl are tired of injustice (on a larger scale-not a Disney trip) not whining about “fairness” for the sake of it.

 

[sam_gordon]

Also in the “real world”, ppl are born with all kinds of disadvantages. Some can barely afford food & have inadequate parents, etc. Guess kids should just get used to that too. My point is that often it’s not just hard work & perseverance that make ppl successful but LUCK. There is an in-between “everyone is special” & “ too bad, you must not have worked hard enough”.

Yes, you often need some luck to succeed. However, hard work will help mitigate how much luck you need. I am interested in what @Princessclab (or yourself) would like to see happen to fix this "injustice". Should school groups not be allowed to miss school (for any reason? just not for "fun"?)? Should any student be automatically excused regardless of the reason?

 

[Floridaman999]

When will I be receiving my participation trophy for participating in this thread?

 

[siren0119]

Yes, you often need some luck to succeed. However, hard work will help mitigate how much luck you need. I am interested in what @Princessclab (or yourself) would like to see happen to fix this "injustice". Should school groups not be allowed to miss school (for any reason? just not for "fun"?)? Should any student be automatically excused regardless of the reason?

One possible solution is to allow EVERY student a set amount of excused absence time outside of sick days. For example, if it's known that the school permits excused absences for clubs/extra curricular/sports teams to take a one-week/two-day/etc trip per school year, that same amount of time should be available for any student in that school even if they are not a member of the club. It could work similar to companies who provide vacation time to employees but also have periods of total-company shutdown. I specifically mention "outside of sick days" because it is assumed that the students who DO participate in those trips are also allowed the same number of excused absences as other students ON TOP of the sanctioned trip.

 

[GreatLakes]

Also in the “real world”, ppl are born with all kinds of disadvantages. Some can barely afford food & have inadequate parents, etc. Guess kids should just get used to that too. My point is that often it’s not just hard work & perseverance that make ppl successful but LUCK. There is an in-between “everyone is special” & “ too bad, you must not have worked hard enough”.

All the accident of your birth does is determined your starting point in life, it doesn't determine your end result.

Would my path to success have been easier if I were born to a millionaire instead if an addict? Probably? But I got to determine whether or not I was going to succeed despite it or fail because of it. Everyone has that same decision to make for themselves.

I figured out early on I would have to work harder than many others to succeed. I'd have to pay my way through college, find my own professional network, and so on. It was good to learn that early instead of been coddled until I'm an adult with nonsense of what I needed to do to overcome my unfortunate beginning position. I didn't complain, I put my head down and worked.

As it pertains to this thread, someone with no support at home just as likely has less ability to miss instructional time so trying to find a way to make their absences excused because the band kids get a free few days sounds like a pretty bad idea.

YMMV.