Pros and Cons of Aulani Sub contracts for Sleep Around Points

[JGINPL]

Thank you all, I may sleep on this tonight. I might be leaning towards recinding my offer. I have learned more about the Hawaiian tax if we decide to sell in the future and taxes on existing properties for Gains. Might just be easier to keep it how it is.

 

[RoseGold]

The Hawaiian taxes are also built into dues. If Hawaii decided to hike up property tax or whatever timeshare tax or whatever else they make up, it will go straight to dues.

 

[Paul Stupin]

I saw that somebody already fixed your comment. You are very kind to summarize it that way.



Any resort can be removed from the system and the management contract could go to someone else other than DVC. DVC and DVD would sell whatever interests they still owned and the existing owners would move into the new system whatever that might be whether it was part of another existing timeshare system or somehow it's own. My guess is that DVD and DVC might still own the majority stake in Aulani so they'd have a big voice in approval even if it was a voting item which I do suspect it is but am not certain without looking it up in the POS.

Doing so would effectively kill any future offsite resort potential for DVC although it seems like they've pretty much stopped planning on more anyway.

Let’s get real here. I think this analysis is a bit of a wild, never-going-to-happen hypothetical. Do you really think there’s even a ghost of a chance Disney will ever take Aulani out of DVC? Do you have any precedent in DVC history, since it’s inception, to support this speculation? Owners would not take kindly to such a betrayal. And what happens after approx. 40 years? Do they take it back?

Not only could such a move undermine DVC sales, it would also close the door on any future non WDW resorts Disney might want to develop, and become a public relations nightmare. No cost savings would be worth this to them. You must realize that, right?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Let’s get real here. I think this analysis is a bit of a wild, never-going-to-happen hypothetical. Do you really think there’s even a ghost of a chance Disney will ever take Aulani out of DVC? Do you have any precedent in DVC history, since it’s inception, to support this speculation? Owners would not take kindly to such a betrayal. And what happens after approx. 40 years? Do they take it back?

Not only could such a move undermine DVC sales, it would also close the door on any future non WDW resorts Disney might want to develop, and become a public relations nightmare. No cost savings would be worth this to them. You must realize that, right?

I was answering if it could be done and it is legally possible. I was not hypothesizing if it ever would be.

 

[Sandisw]

Let’s get real here. I think this analysis is a bit of a wild, never-going-to-happen hypothetical. Do you really think there’s even a ghost of a chance Disney will ever take Aulani out of DVC? Do you have any precedent in DVC history, since it’s inception, to support this speculation? Owners would not take kindly to such a betrayal. And what happens after approx. 40 years? Do they take it back?

Not only could such a move undermine DVC sales, it would also close the door on any future non WDW resorts Disney might want to develop, and become a public relations nightmare. No cost savings would be worth this to them. You must realize that, right?

Maybe not, but it is important...at least I think it is...for people to understand exactly when we get to trade, why things are done the way it is, and what things DVC/DVD could do in the future, no matter how unlikely it is.

But, I can certainly see when we get within 5 years of 2042 for BVTC to decide to remove VB and HH from trading if Disney doesn't plan to redevelop them as DVC. I can actually even see it happening with BWV and BCV a few years out.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Maybe not, but it is important...at least I think it is...for people to understand exactly when we get to trade, why things are done the way it is, and what things DVC/DVD could do in the future, no matter how unlikely it is.

But, I can certainly see when we get within 5 years of 2042 for BVTC to decide to remove VB and HH from trading if Disney doesn't plan to redevelop them as DVC. I can actually even see it happening with BWV and BCV a few years out.

Right? Who would have thought a few years ago that some owners would not be able to trade into certain resorts?

 

[Paul Stupin]

Maybe not, but it is important...at least I think it is...for people to understand exactly when we get to trade, why things are done the way it is, and what things DVC/DVD could do in the future, no matter how unlikely it is.

But, I can certainly see when we get within 5 years of 2042 for BVTC to decide to remove VB and HH from trading if Disney doesn't plan to redevelop them as DVC. I can actually even see it happening with BWV and BCV a few years out.

Totally agree! And I think your scenarios are probably likely. But it’s hard to imagine Disney doing anything like that with a 2062 resort. I think it might destroy the DVC brand. I own at Aulani, absolutely love it, and would certainly not be a happy camper!

Am sure there would be some form of class action lawsuit on the part of DVC owners, and I’m not convinced it would even be legal. But it’s interesting to discuss!!

Or, it might be legal in the way in the way it would be for Disney to tear down the MK and construct a water reclamation plant. It might be legal, but it’s not going to happen.

 

[RoseGold]

Aulani has not sold anywhere close to as well as expected. Five years from now, Disney will still be selling Aulani. I can see them making choices that seem off brand right now.

And I would not want to be selling my own Aulani contract five years from now. I'd rather be selling a resort people actually want, or at least SSR for straight point value.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Aulani has not sold anywhere close to as well as expected. Five years from now, Disney will still be selling Aulani. I can see them making choices that seem off brand right now.

And I would not want to be selling my own Aulani contract five years from now. I'd rather be selling a resort people actually want, or at least SSR for straight point value.

Couldn’t disagree more! I think it’s a little harsh to refer to Aulani as not being a resort “people actually want.” Of course we all know it hasn’t sold as well, but the resale price has risen over 30% in the last few months, and is still going up. Having bought earlier this year and last, I couldn’t be happier owning there. Living in LA, it’s relatively easy to get there, and personally I think it’s far superior to SSR in just about every way.

That said, I’d never buy it for SAP. The maintenance fees are too high.

 

[Drewski77]

Couldn’t disagree more! I think it’s a little harsh to refer to Aulani as not being a resort “people actually want.” Of course we all know it hasn’t sold as well, but the resale price has risen over 30% in the last few months, and is still going up. Having bought earlier this year and last, I couldn’t be happier owning there. Living in LA, it’s relatively easy to get there, and personally I think it’s far superior to SSR in just about every way.

That said, I’d never buy it for SAP. The maintenance fees are too high.

We are on the West Coast as well, but bought SSR to primarily book at Aulani.

We like the lower MF’s, and believe the value of SSR will hold up better over time given the proximity to WDW and the lower MF’s.

Either way, Aulani is a great resort!

 

[808blessing]

Aulani will keep its value. Many choices for dvc in Orlando. Only one DVC on Oahu and 1 of 2 on west coast. Doesn’t matter though because I’m not selling for a very long time, if at all. Oahu is the kind of trip you plan for and 11 months out make a difference if you want a certain room. Rack rates don’t come close, even with a discount. Also most will try to come here once in their dvc life and if not DVC, rental reservations will hold value.

MFs are the wild card though and scare most away.

 

[Paul Stupin]

We are on the West Coast as well, but bought SSR to primarily book at Aulani.

We like the lower MF’s, and believe the value of SSR will hold up better over time given the proximity to WDW and the lower MF’s.

Either way, Aulani is a great resort!

Ah. Not a bad strategy. We like to go twice a year, one time with our Aulani points, the other from a combination of points from different home resorts. It really is a special place and, for booking at the seven month window, I really don’t want it to ever sell out!

 

[Paul Stupin]

Aulani will keep its value. Many choices for dvc in Orlando. Only one DVC on Oahu and 1 of 2 on west coast. Doesn’t matter though because I’m not selling for a very long time, if at all. Oahu is the kind of trip you plan for and 11 months out make a difference if you want a certain room. Rack rates don’t come close, even with a discount. Also most will try to come here once in their dvc life and if not DVC, rental reservations will hold value.

MFs are the wild card though and scare most away.

All true…and we’re not selling for a long time either!

 

[fordchevyguy]

But, I can certainly see when we get within 5 years of 2042 for BVTC to decide to remove VB and HH from trading if Disney doesn't plan to redevelop them as DVC. I can actually even see it happening with BWV and BCV a few years out

I have seen this comment several times before by others and don‘t really understand it. I have owned 250 points at BW since 2007 and primarily use them there. It seems to me that even today there is interest in buying points at BW (and other 2042) resorts because of locations and point charts. Even if others are not wanting to buy in at year 2037, as long as DVC owners with points (other resorts) want to stay there… why would DVC want or make any changes.
If I am missing a reason.. please educate me. Thanks.. tgs

 

[Sandisw]

I have seen this comment several times before by others and don‘t really understand it. I have owned 250 points at BW since 2007 and primarily use them there. It seems to me that even today there is interest in buying points at BW (and other 2042) resorts because of locations and point charts. Even if others are not wanting to buy in at year 2037, as long as DVC owners with points (other resorts) want to stay there… why would DVC want or make any changes.
If I am missing a reason.. please educate me. Thanks.. tgs

Speculation for sure but I think they will redevelop both BWV and BCV. But toward the end, they will have all those owners wanting to use up all those points in the last few years before it expires.

It will flood the system given the other ones expiring as well. So, I can see them removing them from BVTC which then forces owners to be stuck using at their home resorts only.

Just something possible as a way to handle it. Much more likely with VB and HH, but I think it’s a possibility.

I definitely won’t me surprised banking and borrowing suspended but I don’t know if legally they can suspend some resorts and not others. If they can’t, then in the last few years, removing them from trading seems like an option they could consider.

 

[DVCanadian]

Speculation for sure but I think they will redevelop both BWV and BCV. But toward the end, they will have all those owners wanting to use up all those points in the last few years before it expires.

It will flood the system given the other ones expiring as well. So, I can see them removing them from BVTC which then forces owners to be stuck using at their home resorts only.

Just something possible as a way to handle it. Much more likely with VB and HH, but I think it’s a possibility.

I definitely won’t me surprised banking and borrowing suspended but I don’t know if legally they can suspend some resorts and not others. If they can’t, then in the last few years, removing them from trading seems like an option they could consider.

I can’t understand what you are saying here. The system won’t be “flooded” with points, no new points are magically arriving. Not sure if you mean there will be an increased demand to stay at resorts that may be going away to be redeveloped? That’s supply and demand and presents no issues different than today. Owners can book at 11 months, if they book everything, then owners at other resorts book somewhere else. No reason to suspend trading in or out.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Speculation for sure but I think they will redevelop both BWV and BCV. But toward the end, they will have all those owners wanting to use up all those points in the last few years before it expires.

It will flood the system given the other ones expiring as well. So, I can see them removing them from BVTC which then forces owners to be stuck using at their home resorts only.

Just something possible as a way to handle it. Much more likely with VB and HH, but I think it’s a possibility.

I definitely won’t me surprised banking and borrowing suspended but I don’t know if legally they can suspend some resorts and not others. If they can’t, then in the last few years, removing them from trading seems like an option they could consider.

Being that points are only useable during 3 possible years it's pretty well covered up until almost the end. I'd guess there will be people using up points as early as they can and others waiting to have that very last stay. At least assuming WDW is still even a thing then. It is possible that they will do some suspension of borrowing or banking in the last couple of years but removing them from DVC trading is not something I would be thinking will happen. It will be interesting for whomever is head of DVC in 2039, 2040 and 2041 though that's for sure.

 

[RoseGold]

Of course we all know it hasn’t sold as well, but the resale price has risen over 30% in the last few months, and is still going up. Having bought earlier this year and last, I couldn’t be happier owning there. Living in LA, it’s relatively easy to get there, and personally I think it’s far superior to SSR in just about every way.

Aulani is competing with every other timeshare/hotel in Hawaii, not SSR, which is why it hasn't sold. If I were going to Hawaii, it wouldn't be to Aulani.

At the same time, it's also competing with the DVC SAP for points, which is why the price has gone up direct and resale, because the rising tide even brings up this boat no one wants.

Disney is still saddled with millions of Aulani points. We don't know what they will do with them, or the resort as a whole. It's clear Hawaii is not Disney's focus, and this project has not gone to plan. That's not the property I want to own. Not when I can have proper SAP (Saratoga) for the same price, or a property people actually like for a little more.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Aulani is competing with every other timeshare/hotel in Hawaii, not SSR, which is why it hasn't sold. If I were going to Hawaii, it wouldn't be to Aulani.

At the same time, it's also competing with the DVC SAP for points, which is why the price has gone up direct and resale, because the rising tide even brings up this boat no one wants.

Disney is still saddled with millions of Aulani points. We don't know what they will do with them, or the resort as a whole. It's clear Hawaii is not Disney's focus, and this project has not gone to plan. That's not the property I want to own. Not when I can have proper SAP (Saratoga) for the same price, or a property people actually like for a little more.

But do they consider themselves saddled with them? They barely market the location. The sales guides never talk about it unless you ask them. They just don't sell the place and really never have. All the timeshares around them have sold but there's next to nothing that DVC does that leads one to think they are even trying to sell it faster than it's just doing on its own.

 

[Sandisw]

I can’t understand what you are saying here. The system won’t be “flooded” with points, no new points are magically arriving. Not sure if you mean there will be an increased demand to stay at resorts that may be going away to be redeveloped? That’s supply and demand and presents no issues different than today. Owners can book at 11 months, if they book everything, then owners at other resorts book somewhere else. No reason to suspend trading in or out.

Toward the end, they will have more people at the 2042 points trying to use up the points and borrowing for those late in the UY is bound to be greater than in previous years. Again, just my opinion it is something that could be done because, you will have people trying to adjust so they don't lose points. The current balance that exists today with banking and borrowing could very well be different toward the end.

For example, a Dec UY gets their 2041 points to use only 2 months, unless they borrow forward and because people wont know what will happen, you may have a lot more owners who get themselves in borrow mode for several years ahead of the end date to ensure they get what they want when they want it.

While the 3 months of closure is not exactly the same, they have suspended borrowing for one reason only...the system got out of whack and its possible at the 2042 resorts in the last few years, that happens for them too.