problems with multiple master contracts?

schoen

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My parents have three individual contracts, with one master contract. They are adding on 100 points. They want to put my name on the deed, but that will make this an additional master contract. We tend to take longer trips, so it would be unlikely that we would ever use those 100 points in isolation, we would use them in conjunction with our other points. I would imagine we would just transfer our points in to their account once a year, and that would not be a problem, correct?

Any experience with multiple master contracts?

Thanks!
 
My parents have three individual contracts, with one master contract. They are adding on 100 points. They want to put my name on the deed, but that will make this an additional master contract. We tend to take longer trips, so it would be unlikely that we would ever use those 100 points in isolation, we would use them in conjunction with our other points. I would imagine we would just transfer our points in to their account once a year, and that would not be a problem, correct?

Any experience with multiple master contracts?

Thanks!
We have 2 masters with 2 UY and have had as many as 3 UY. One of ours now is 100 points. There are advantages and disadvantages but getting them to work together is an issue. You can always transfer the points to the other contract and use them together but they may not be bookable online. It does give the opportunity to add others to get benefits as in this case, chose a different UY to target a specific trip and to have 2 additional waitlist spots.
 
We have three contracts with two different Master Contract numbers and two different UYs, cause our DDs are on one of the contracts.
I have a spreadsheet that works for me to keep current what trips are coming out of which contract, the banking deadlines, and trips scheduled and planned with each contract. It is not that hard to deal with as long as the spreadsheet is keep up to date and you are keeping track of those items that you require.
 
Well, do transferred points "behave" the same way as regular points? Can I bank points, and then transfer them? Can I borrow points into one of my contracts and then transfer them over to one of my other contracts? If I wanted to book online could I just book part of my stay with one master contract and then book the other part with the other one and link them after the fact? Then I could just transfer the balance if it isn't a round number?
 

They want to put my name on the deed
Why?
Well, do transferred points "behave" the same way as regular points? Can I bank points, and then transfer them? Can I borrow points into one of my contracts and then transfer them over to one of my other contracts? If I wanted to book online could I just book part of my stay with one master contract and then book the other part with the other one and link them after the fact? Then I could just transfer the balance if it isn't a round number?
No. You can only transfer points in their original year. Transferred points can be banked, but not borrowed.
 
Why?

because they want me and my husband to be members before they die. We WANT to be members, and they want to buy us some points. It's a rather personal question! Although, I suppose your screen name is supersnoop, so I suppose not entirely unexpected ;-) thanks for clearing up the question on transfers.
 
because they want me and my husband to be members before they die. We WANT to be members, and they want to buy us some points. It's a rather personal question! Although, I suppose your screen name is supersnoop, so I suppose not entirely unexpected ;-) thanks for clearing up the question on transfers.
The only benefit you receive for being a member with them is that you'll be eligible for "perks" when they are not present. Since you're planning to use the points in larger increments, it doesn't sound like that will happen very often.

In addition, being on the deed changes the way the deed is handled from a legal perspective. That could be good, but it could also be bad. If it's deeded in accordance with a proper estate plan, you may be able to avoid probate in Florida. But the deed would also be considered an asset of each individual listed. So, in the event of death, divorce, or financial hardship, it could be tied up in court proceedings in ways you never intended. From a legal perspective, it's like giving you a interest in their house.

Unless they have a comprehensive estate plan and this is part of it, I always advise against mingling people on the deed.
 
Well, do transferred points "behave" the same way as regular points? Can I bank points, and then transfer them? Can I borrow points into one of my contracts and then transfer them over to one of my other contracts? If I wanted to book online could I just book part of my stay with one master contract and then book the other part with the other one and link them after the fact? Then I could just transfer the balance if it isn't a round number?
And they can't be booked online in most cases.
 
No matter what you do, expect issues. Transfers have issues, booking separately and linking can have issues, and adding you to all of the deeds could be an issue.

:earsboy: Bill

 
The only benefit you receive for being a member with them is that you'll be eligible for "perks" when they are not present. Since you're planning to use the points in larger increments, it doesn't sound like that will happen very often.

In addition, being on the deed changes the way the deed is handled from a legal perspective. That could be good, but it could also be bad. If it's deeded in accordance with a proper estate plan, you may be able to avoid probate in Florida. But the deed would also be considered an asset of each individual listed. So, in the event of death, divorce, or financial hardship, it could be tied up in court proceedings in ways you never intended. From a legal perspective, it's like giving you a interest in their house.

Unless they have a comprehensive estate plan and this is part of it, I always advise against mingling people on the deed.


Yeah, they most certainly have an estate plan, and this is very much a part of it.

Part of the reason they are buying more points is because their initial contracts were not set up well for deeding to the kids upon their deaths. The have one huge contract, and a two smaller ones. They have 4 children, so they are adding contracts to make it a bit easier to split up. They eventually want 4 smaller contracts (one for each of us) and then the 4 kids will have to decide what to do with the large contract.

we have most certainly considered all of these things. The reality is that my husband and I use their points much much much more than they do. We go every year for 15-20 days on points. We want the member benefits. We buy annual passes, we get TIW, we go to the spa, etc. They travel with us only every three years or so. They are buying more points anyway, so it's a good time to get us in the system, so to speak. My plan would be to basically just transfer these points into one of their other contracts on a yearly basis. We typically stay at Old Key West, which is our home resort. These points will have the same use year and will also be extended OKW points.
 
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Yeah, they most certainly have an estate plan, and this is very much a part of it.

Part of the reason they are buying more points is because their initial contracts were not set up well for deeding to the kids upon their deaths. The have one huge contract, and a two smaller ones. They have 4 children, so they are adding contracts to make it a bit easier to split up. They eventually want 4 smaller contracts (one for each of us) and then the 4 kids will have to decide what to do with the large contract.

we have most certainly considered all of these things. The reality is that my husband and I use their points much much much more than they do. We go every year for 15-20 days on points. We want the member benefits. We buy annual passes, we get TIW, we go to the spa, etc. They travel with us only every three years or so. They are buying more points anyway, so it's a good time to get us in the system, so to speak. My plan would be to basically just transfer these points into one of their other contracts on a yearly basis. We typically stay at Old Key West, which is our home resort. These points will have the same use year and will also be extended OKW points.
Obviously there are a lot of moving parts to this issue. This doesn't sound like a good direction to go for most of the purposes stated but it doesn't sound like something you want to discuss. Let us know if you want to figure out more about some of our concerns.
 
Obviously there are a lot of moving parts to this issue. This doesn't sound like a good direction to go for most of the purposes stated but it doesn't sound like something you want to discuss. Let us know if you want to figure out more about some of our concerns.

Are you saying that it is not a good direction because having two master contracts is a nightmare? Or because you don't think its a good idea for me to receive a gift of DVC points? My family has carefully considered the financial/estate planning side of this, and we're comfortable.

We ARE concerned that dealing with these two contracts could potentially be a major pain, and we might not be able to use them the way that we like. I would appreciate any advice/experiences/tips/tricks/warnings concerning having two master contracts. I appreciate the feedback on that issue that I have already gotten, would love more!
 
No matter what you do, expect issues. Transfers have issues, booking separately and linking can have issues, and adding you to all of the deeds could be an issue.

:earsboy: Bill
Well sure, any DVC reservation has the potential for challenges. Are you saying that having two master contracts, in your experience, has been particularly messy?
 
Well sure, any DVC reservation has the potential for challenges. Are you saying that having two master contracts, in your experience, has been particularly messy?

I'm saying that if you have one contract and you book at 11 months, your will have 10% problems, could be room ready, dirty room, website issues, mistakes by MS.

Having 2 masters can double the MS, website, MS mistakes, dues, deadlines if different UY's. We transferred points from our master to the other and MS lost the points. While looking for them they lost a CL reservation that we were booking at AKV. This was after insisting that we didn't have any transferred points.

:earsboy: Bill

 
Having 2 masters can double the MS, website, MS mistakes, dues, deadlines if different UY's. We transferred points from our master to the other and MS lost the points. While looking for them they lost a CL reservation that we were booking at AKV. This was after insisting that we didn't have any transferred points.

:earsboy: Bill

Do you mind if I ask you if this was enough of a problem that it compelled you to get rid of the second or third master contract? I think I can accept a bit more work and baby-sitting MS, I just want to be assured that my family and I will be angle to actually USE these points, considering the fact that a typical trip for my family is anywhere between 270-700 points.
 
Are you saying that it is not a good direction because having two master contracts is a nightmare? Or because you don't think its a good idea for me to receive a gift of DVC points? My family has carefully considered the financial/estate planning side of this, and we're comfortable.

We ARE concerned that dealing with these two contracts could potentially be a major pain, and we might not be able to use them the way that we like. I would appreciate any advice/experiences/tips/tricks/warnings concerning having two master contracts. I appreciate the feedback on that issue that I have already gotten, would love more!
Both the 2 masters in this situation AND the rest of the story but more the other issues. This sounds like a disaster in the making and that there are likely far better ways to accomplish what it sounds like you/they are trying to do. Basically the "you don't know what you don't know" idea.
 
Do you mind if I ask you if this was enough of a problem that it compelled you to get rid of the second or third master contract? I think I can accept a bit more work and baby-sitting MS, I just want to be assured that my family and I will be angle to actually USE these points, considering the fact that a typical trip for my family is anywhere between 270-700 points.

We have a second master because we were ignorant when we first bought and we bought a UY/resort that wasn't the best for us. All of our other contracts were of the best UY for our vacation patterns with 3 of the 5 resorts being our favorite.

You can make a 2nd master work, others do, but why make things harder in life if you don't have to?

:earsboy: Bill

 
OP,
We did what your parents are contemplating. We wanted to add points, and we wanted our adult children, who would soon no longer share our legal address, to receive perks when they went to WDW without us (this was prior to the April 4 announcement obviously). We added a second master with them on the title at the same resort and use year we already owned, because I understood from reading these boards that points transferred from and to the same home resort and use year would be visible and bookable online. That has proven to be true in our case.

However—You indicate that your parents may purchase another contract with another sibling’s name on the title. This could present a problem because your parents’ master could only receive one transfer per year. So you would have to use one of the smaller contracts independently.
 
OP,
We did what your parents are contemplating. We wanted to add points, and we wanted our adult children, who would soon no longer share our legal address, to receive perks when they went to WDW without us (this was prior to the April 4 announcement obviously). We added a second master with them on the title at the same resort and use year we already owned, because I understood from reading these boards that points transferred from and to the same home resort and use year would be visible and bookable online. That has proven to be true in our case.

However—You indicate that your parents may purchase another contract with another sibling’s name on the title. This could present a problem because your parents’ master could only receive one transfer per year. So you would have to use one of the smaller contracts independently.

Thanks for your response. I really appreciate hearing the perspective of someone in a similar situation. The other sibling part is also something to consider. They have three current contracts, and as far as I understand, you can transfer once per contract. So we could transfer into any of the three on that 1st master contract. Correct?

We're not sure where we will land on this. It really sounds like it's not that big of a deal, and worse case scenario I will just have to make two separate reservations for some vacations, but even that seems like an unlikely scenario.
 
First, feel blessed that you have parents who want to buy an extra 100 points and add you to the deed. As to some realistic benefits and disadvantages:

Perks: if they purchase from Disney, you will be entitled to all the same perks they are entitled to such as discounted APs, the 10% merchandise discount at WDW stores, others. If they purchase resale, that contract will be unusable to reserve the Disney Collections, and, because there will be a new member number attached to it, you will not be entitled to the perks under the rule change that was effective April 4; they will still have use of the perks because they already own other contracts.

Transfer Rules: you can transfer current use year points, but not points that have already been banked or borrowed. A member can bank points already transferred into his account but cannot borrow them. The use year and banking deadline for transferred points retain that of the transferor. A member (actually a membership number) can make only one transfer per use year, either in or out but not both. Thus, your parents and you will be able to transfer the points from the new membership number account to your parents' old membership number account only once per use year. That becomes a consideration when you believe there will be some points not used for a trip that will likely be banked. If you keep those extra points in your account and bank them, then those will not be transferable for the trip in the next use year that uses them. As a result, you may want to just transfer all points every use year. As mentioned, if your parents also create new memberships with other siblings, you will then have a transfer issue because the parents can receive in their original membership only one transfer per use year

Note, that you do not have to wait for a your use year to arrive to do a transfer as you can transfer points that are in your existing use year or the next one at any given point in time. Example: assume you have a March use year and you want to make a reservation today for time in April 2017, 11 months form now. You can transfer your March 2017 points now before doing that reservation. In fact, you could also transfer your March 2016 points now and have your parents bank them into the March 2017 use year and use those points for the trip (though you would be doing two transfers at the same time, you do not break the one transfer rule because you can do one transfer "per use year").

Transfer or Do Separate Reservations: When you reserve exactly 11 (home resort) or 7 (other DVC resorts) months out, the online system opens at 8 a.m. eastern, and phone lines at 9. Thus, being able to do it online is an advantage, and, particularly for making reservations for high demand times like the last quarter of the year at WDW, it is an advantage that can mean the difference between getting a reservation and not getting one. If the new contract is in a different use year from your parents' existing use year, the transferred points will not show up after transfer in their original membership account online and cannot be used to do online reservations, but, instead, they must call to use them for a reservation. However, if the points are in the same use year, they will show up in your parents' online account for their original membership number and will be usable for making reservations online. Thus, having the same use year avoids that online reservation problem with transferred points.

An alternative to transfer, is to make two different reservations for any one trip, reserving some nights with one membership account and the remaining nights with the second membership account. You can then have Member Services link the two reservations, which will avoid having to change rooms. Note you need not rush to do that link after making the reservation and may want to wait some time to do it because if you ever want to modify a reservation, such as changing to a different resort at 7 months out, or dropping one night or adding one night later, you cannot do that to a linked reservation but must first have MS unlink them. In the past, there was also an issue that you would need to do a check-out and check-in on the tunover date at the resorts. You would not need to move out of the room but just go to the front desk and do a quick check out and check in, close out and pay the bill on the first reservation and get new keys. We have two membership numbers, and use the linked reservation method, and in the last two years, we have found that check-out and check-in issue no longer exists as the resorts' computer systems can now treat the two reservations as one continuous reservation. Moreover, your keys are now the Magic Bands and thus need not be changed.

Where they have not changed the system yet is for making restaurant or FP+ reservations. For doing so, the two reservations are still deemed separate and thus you have two different 180 day (restaurants) and 60 day (FP+) out triggerring dates for the linked reservations. At the same time, they are also treated separate for the dining plan and thus if desired you can have the dining plan for one of the reservations and not the other.

We have had for many years two membership numbers which are in two different use years. We occasionally use both for one trip and generally use the method of making two reservations that we then link rather than transfer. We have never had an issue or a problem with MS doing so. We have not found that having two different membership numbers created a lot more hassles or a higher risk of disaster with MS or otherwise than having one

Some Legal Issues: putting you on the deed with your parents raises some legal issues to be aware of. Mentioned above is the possible probate issue. In actuality that is one that can be avoided until the death of the last surving owner on the deed if you make sure the new deed names all the owners as joint tenants with right of survivorship. What that means is that if any one owner dies, the others automatically become the owners of the deceased's share and the property does not have to go through probate to be distibuted to others. Thus, probate of the property will not actually occur until the death of the last surviving owner. That will not avoid estate taxes but with today's federal and, in most states, state minimum estate value levels set very high to even have an estate tax issue, it may make no difference for taxes.

Another risk, likely low, is creditors. If you or your parents have financial issues that result in someone filing for bankruptcy, creditors may be able to force a sale of the property to pay off the debt owed by one of the owners. Your parents likely own via a deed that says "husband and wife" now, which in Florida is a "tenancy by the entirety" which is the same as a joint tenancy with right of survivorship but has the additonal benefit of preventing creditors of only one of the owners from pursuing the property to pay off the debt. Your parents would be giving that advantage up by adding you to the deed because they cannot have a tenancy by the entirety with you on the deed.

The value of the property will be considered an asset owned by you. One area that can make a difference involves college for your kids. The total value of the contract which includes you as owner, and not just your perceived share, will be included in your total assets in determining your childrens' ability to qualify for any grants or low rate loans backed by the federal government, and the amount of grants and loans offerred.
 
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