pre-paid gratuities for spa treatments????

[emilyann415]

I'm curious about this new practice. If someone receives a Villa treatment, part of what you are paying for is the massage, and part of what you are paying for is the time in the villa. Is Disney charging an 18% tip on the entire Villa experience cost, or just 18% of the cost of the massage services?

Left to my own devices, I'd've probably tipped on the standard cost of the massage services, plus an additional amount to whomever did the foot cleansing and/or tea service. But it doesn't make sense to me for Disney to charge a "tip" on the part of the experience that is not provided by personnel...you'd be basically tipping DCL for the privilege of time in their villa.

I'm also not crazy about the assigned 18% number. A quick web search indicates that the accepted standard tip amount is still 15% in the spa/massage industry. I'm not saying people shouldn't/don't go above that for good service, but 15% is standard, not 18%.

If we go through with our reserved services, I'll have to give some thought to how we're going to handle the tipping situation. I guess they are counting on most people not wanting to have to trudge down to Guest Services to adjust their tips just when they are feeling all relaxed and trying to enjoy the vacation!

I'm pretty sure you won't be able to reduce the tip only increase it if you want.....I think the bar tipping is the same way. At first, when I got the email I was mad but I do always tip at least 20% anyway, more if the service is exceptional so it really doesn't affect me. If it reduces the hard sell of products I will be VERY happy with this change. I hated that more than the auto gratuity. I am guessing that there are people who did not tip or not tip very well and this will correct that. I do not know how much these people get paid but my guess is it is primarily the tips that pays their salary....so as long as the service doesn't suffer I guess I really don't have a problem with this. If the service becomes poor, well then I guess I take my business elsewhere. I won't get all worked up about it until I have my alone time in less than 2 months!

 

[Dug720]

My mom just forwarded me the email.

I was already considering cancelling for a few reasons (not the least of which being I don't want to give up time on CC), but this just pushed me over the edge. Going to the website to cancel now.

(I have no issues with leaving a gratuity, but let me decide how much and pay it as I see fit. THAT is my big beef.)

 

[disneyfan888]

I have expressed how angry I am with this because it is not appropriate etiquette, but to address the why this may be occurring, I do not think it is being based solemnly on people who may not be tipping or under tipping, It may also have to do with the fact that many people were complaining about the hard sales.

I think most of us have probably felt the same way, you want that relaxing massage, but you know that once it is over, they are going to push those products as if your life depended on it. I have gotten a treatment on every cruise. The first time of course I did not know what to expect and since it was my first full massage ever, I bought some of the products. After that I became aware of just how intense they keep pushing the products. The first time I was submerged in the complete experience, first full massage/full massage at castaway so it did not bother me, but it came to a point where I was asking my self, how badly do I want the treatment to undergo this excessive sale torture? It completely ruins the relaxation and mood.

I read on here that people began telling the therapists that if they pushed the sales they would get no tip, this automatic 18% may have to do with this. I never tried this so I do not know if it was effective or not, but now the therapists do not have to worry about whether or no they will be tipped, which means that they can continue to push the products and they know their tip is guaranteed. Very disappointed. I have already cancelled my treatments for our upcoming cruise next Saturday on the Fantasy because forcing the tip on me is not appropriate.

Someone mentioned that it may be possible to adjust the tip, unfortunately if the tip is already preset it cannot be adjusted. Which makes this procedure even worse. One leaves a tip based on the satisfaction of the service, if for whatever reason the service was not good, they still get an automatic 18% tip. This is going to cause people that leave more than the 18% not to leave more than the 18%. The whole thing is wrong and inappropriate and quite frankly a slap in the face, especially to those who always tip. I will be expressing my thoughts to DCL. They claim that they came to this decision on behalf of "guests" who suggested it, yea right. I wonder if on behalf of the guests they will change this ridiculous policy after the loads of complaints that are sure to go there way.

Part 2 of the venting over.

 

[ThePicketts]

I got this and am irked too. I typically leave a 20% tip for spa svcs. As much as I *want* to cancel, I know I'll just rebook onboard cuz the MIL is traveling with us and I'll need it! But, I will not be increasing my tip, that is for sure! 18% it is...

Hahahahaha

 

[ThePicketts]

We have not cruised since 2007. This is the first time I checked in on-line and picked a boarding time. Are they pretty strict with the time chosen?

Kinda

 

[emilyann415]

I guess I really just don't see where this outrage is coming from. I've never seen anyone get bent out of shape over the auto gratuity in the bar bills. I've never seen anyone stop eating at restaurants with large groups because of auto tipping. Now, if I continue to get the hard sell with auto gratuity then I will no longer frequent their spas but this "out of principal" thing I just don't get. Auto gratuity has been going on for a long time. I'm not trying to offend anyone but it's not like DCL just reinvented the wheel or anything.

 

[michellekcm]

I didn't get an email. We have two spa treatments booked on the Wonder: a facial and a pedicure.

Do you think that they just haven't gotten to everyone yet, or is it perhaps one of the contracts with a specific ship?

If I get the email, I'm canceling. Its not like i booked manis for a party of 10.

I'm on the Wonder in August and just got the email today. I'm really disappointed - I just prepaid for my mother to have a massage and now she'll get that gratuity automatically charged to her OBC right?

This frustrates me. Maybe it's because here in Australia we don't have a tipping culture like in the US. But I don't like my expensive massage being even more.

On my last cruise I did tip - I asked the American lady sitting next to me in the waiting room how much I should tip, as I had no clue. I just don't like feeling forced into it.

 

[debsters41]

Is this tip added to rainforest room and exotic rasul too? Can someone explain to me why?

 

[the_bUg]

Hrmm... I've been thinking about this a little more, and it's kind of grating on me. I'm only using the $190, 75 min hot stones treatment as my point of reference since it's the only service I've had so far.

Now, at $190 for a 75 minute treatment that works out to 152$ per hour... Now, I'm not sure what Senses pays their employees, but I would imagine out of that 152$ they could muster up $25.00 in wages. Now, let's assume an 18% tip (I tipped higher last cruise, but this is just for arguments sake), which works out to $34.20.

I was also hard sold on a freaking $80.00 bottle of massage oil (which is nice, I've used it a couple times, but...). Let's assume they make a %10 sales commission on a product with that much markup. This would certainly be a couple more dollars. So for my first treatment, using my fuzzy math with a lot of assumptions built in to it, I can guess that my masseur may have taken home upwards of $65.00 for that treatment in total.

This is certainly more money than I can make in an hour at my current job and I can afford yearly cruises and several hundred dollar spa services...

Now, I realize this is not just a money for time equation, and the value of an experience is subjective. It is because of this that I am willing to pay such a high amount for a 75 minute experience. It is also because of this that tipping should be individual and not automatic. If I choose to tip, and tip well, it's my choice. Period.

I am certainly throwing enough money at SENSES SPA and by proxy their employees. Again, if they cannot pay their employees an adequate hourly wage out of the large sums of money I've given them for these experiences, this is NOT my problem nor should I be expected to supplement their employee's income.

I will still tip, based on my subjective valuation, which in both my previous cases, again, was over and above this recommended 18%, once significantly over. However I resent the fact that I cannot show GENUINE appreciation for the service as tipping is now "required".

Choosing to show appreciation through monetary compensation should be an act of volition. Maybe I'm just crazy because I'm Canadian, but this is an important distinction to me.

... For my convenience, my #$&.

 

[Dug720]

I have expressed how angry I am with this because it is not appropriate etiquette, but to address the why this may be occurring, I do not think it is being based solemnly on people who may not be tipping or under tipping, It may also have to do with the fact that many people were complaining about the hard sales.

I think most of us have probably felt the same way, you want that relaxing massage, but you know that once it is over, they are going to push those products as if your life depended on it. I have gotten a treatment on every cruise. The first time of course I did not know what to expect and since it was my first full massage ever, I bought some of the products. After that I became aware of just how intense they keep pushing the products. The first time I was submerged in the complete experience, first full massage/full massage at castaway so it did not bother me, but it came to a point where I was asking my self, how badly do I want the treatment to undergo this excessive sale torture? It completely ruins the relaxation and mood.

I read on here that people began telling the therapists that if they pushed the sales they would get no tip, this automatic 18% may have to do with this. I never tried this so I do not know if it was effective or not, but now the therapists do not have to worry about whether or no they will be tipped, which means that they can continue to push the products and they know their tip is guaranteed. Very disappointed. I have already cancelled my treatments for our upcoming cruise next Saturday on the Fantasy because forcing the tip on me is not appropriate.

Someone mentioned that it may be possible to adjust the tip, unfortunately if the tip is already preset it cannot be adjusted. Which makes this procedure even worse. One leaves a tip based on the satisfaction of the service, if for whatever reason the service was not good, they still get an automatic 18% tip. This is going to cause people that leave more than the 18% not to leave more than the 18%. The whole thing is wrong and inappropriate and quite frankly a slap in the face, especially to those who always tip. I will be expressing my thoughts to DCL. They claim that they came to this decision on behalf of "guests" who suggested it, yea right. I wonder if on behalf of the guests they will change this ridiculous policy after the loads of complaints that are sure to go there way.

Part 2 of the venting over.

The reasoning that this will reduce the hard sell isn't really sound. If people were saying they were going to withhold a tip if they were given the hard sell caused this, it will if anything only make them MORE likely to do the hard sell as they're now going to get the tip regardless.

 

[ThePicketts]

Hrmm... I've been thinking about this a little more, and it's kind of grating on me. I'm only using the $190, 75 min hot stones treatment as my point of reference since it's the only service I've had so far.

Now, at $190 for a 75 minute treatment that works out to 152$ per hour... Now, I'm not sure what Senses pays their employees, but I would imagine out of that 152$ they could muster up $25.00 in wages. Now, let's assume an 18% tip (I tipped higher last cruise, but this is just for arguments sake), which works out to $34.20.

I was also hard sold on a freaking $80.00 bottle of massage oil (which is nice, I've used it a couple times, but...). Let's assume they make a %10 sales commission on a product with that much markup. This would certainly be a couple more dollars. So for my first treatment, using my fuzzy math with a lot of assumptions built in to it, I can guess that my masseur may have taken home upwards of $65.00 for that treatment in total.

This is certainly more money than I can make in an hour at my current job and I can afford yearly cruises and several hundred dollar spa services...

Now, I realize this is not just a money for time equation, and the value of an experience is subjective. It is because of this that I am willing to pay such a high amount for a 75 minute experience. It is also because of this that tipping should be individual and not automatic. If I choose to tip, and tip well, it's my choice. Period.

I am certainly throwing enough money at SENSES SPA and by proxy their employees. Again, if they cannot pay their employees an adequate hourly wage out of the large sums of money I've given them for these experiences, this is NOT my problem nor should I be expected to supplement their employee's income.

I will still tip, based on my subjective valuation, which in both my previous cases, again, was over and above this recommended 18%, once significantly over. However I resent the fact that I cannot show GENUINE appreciation for the service as tipping is now "required".

Choosing to show appreciation through monetary compensation should be an act of volition. Maybe I'm just crazy because I'm Canadian, but this is an important distinction to me.

... For my convenience, my #$&.

I was thinking the exact same thing

 

[luv2sleep]

Hrmm... I've been thinking about this a little more, and it's kind of grating on me. I'm only using the $190, 75 min hot stones treatment as my point of reference since it's the only service I've had so far.

Now, at $190 for a 75 minute treatment that works out to 152$ per hour... Now, I'm not sure what Senses pays their employees, but I would imagine out of that 152$ they could muster up $25.00 in wages. Now, let's assume an 18% tip (I tipped higher last cruise, but this is just for arguments sake), which works out to $34.20.

I was also hard sold on a freaking $80.00 bottle of massage oil (which is nice, I've used it a couple times, but...). Let's assume they make a %10 sales commission on a product with that much markup. This would certainly be a couple more dollars. So for my first treatment, using my fuzzy math with a lot of assumptions built in to it, I can guess that my masseur may have taken home upwards of $65.00 for that treatment in total.

This is certainly more money than I can make in an hour at my current job and I can afford yearly cruises and several hundred dollar spa services...

Now, I realize this is not just a money for time equation, and the value of an experience is subjective. It is because of this that I am willing to pay such a high amount for a 75 minute experience. It is also because of this that tipping should be individual and not automatic. If I choose to tip, and tip well, it's my choice. Period.

I am certainly throwing enough money at SENSES SPA and by proxy their employees. Again, if they cannot pay their employees an adequate hourly wage out of the large sums of money I've given them for these experiences, this is NOT my problem nor should I be expected to supplement their employee's income.

I will still tip, based on my subjective valuation, which in both my previous cases, again, was over and above this recommended 18%, once significantly over. However I resent the fact that I cannot show GENUINE appreciation for the service as tipping is now "required".

Choosing to show appreciation through monetary compensation should be an act of volition. Maybe I'm just crazy because I'm Canadian, but this is an important distinction to me.

... For my convenience, my #$&.

Well when you break it down like that the ship spa treatments don't seem worth it at all. I've done a few but they were all discounted, booked onboard last minute specials. Still expensive though. I certainly would never book anything ahead of time. Way too much.

For those discounted services I was told to tip based on the full price of the device and not the price I paid. I wonder if the same gratuity is gong to be added to the onboard discounted specials and if the 18% will be on the full or discounted price?

 

[emilyann415]

Hrmm... I've been thinking about this a little more, and it's kind of grating on me. I'm only using the $190, 75 min hot stones treatment as my point of reference since it's the only service I've had so far.

Now, at $190 for a 75 minute treatment that works out to 152$ per hour... Now, I'm not sure what Senses pays their employees, but I would imagine out of that 152$ they could muster up $25.00 in wages. Now, let's assume an 18% tip (I tipped higher last cruise, but this is just for arguments sake), which works out to $34.20.

I was also hard sold on a freaking $80.00 bottle of massage oil (which is nice, I've used it a couple times, but...). Let's assume they make a %10 sales commission on a product with that much markup. This would certainly be a couple more dollars. So for my first treatment, using my fuzzy math with a lot of assumptions built in to it, I can guess that my masseur may have taken home upwards of $65.00 for that treatment in total.

This is certainly more money than I can make in an hour at my current job and I can afford yearly cruises and several hundred dollar spa services...

Now, I realize this is not just a money for time equation, and the value of an experience is subjective. It is because of this that I am willing to pay such a high amount for a 75 minute experience. It is also because of this that tipping should be individual and not automatic. If I choose to tip, and tip well, it's my choice. Period.

I am certainly throwing enough money at SENSES SPA and by proxy their employees. Again, if they cannot pay their employees an adequate hourly wage out of the large sums of money I've given them for these experiences, this is NOT my problem nor should I be expected to supplement their employee's income.

I will still tip, based on my subjective valuation, which in both my previous cases, again, was over and above this recommended 18%, once significantly over. However I resent the fact that I cannot show GENUINE appreciation for the service as tipping is now "required".

Choosing to show appreciation through monetary compensation should be an act of volition. Maybe I'm just crazy because I'm Canadian, but this is an important distinction to me.

... For my convenience, my #$&.

Ok....so like it or not, it is a service that is supposed to be tipped. That is essentially how most of these people get paid. People who think it costs so much in the first place compared to here or there so they don't tip (IMO) are the reason for this policy change. Is it more expensive than at home, heck yes, so is a pop at the airport or the sweatshirts in the gift shop at Disney. Vacation destinations rip us off....no one is REALLY surprised by this. It's not new news. If you don't like the cost of the procedure then don't get the procedure done. But you should tip if you have it done! I exprience auto gratuity when I eat out with a large group of people. I pay it and never give it a second thought. If I really like their service I tip more. Maybe Disney should just call it a surcharge and people wouldn't get so bent out of shape. But then people would complain that they don't call it a tip and they feel as though they need to tip something!
I do hope/expect it will lessen the hard sell. I seriously doubt most people LIKE or ENJOY pushing a sales pitch at people they know don't want to hear them (I work in sales....but maybe I am different than most people). When they know they are guaranteed to get paid via tip, perhaps they won't feel the need to push products. If I am wrong, then I will no longer use the spa services. I HATE the hard sell and spend half of the time in the service steeling myself for it. I, on the other hand, always tip, and this policy change will not affect me at all.....

 

[Dug720]

Maybe someone could merge the two threads about this?

 

[tajz90]

Doesn't affect me at all. I tip, but I don't like being told I HAVE to tip

It also offends me that I'm being MADE to tip because (possibly) others don't. Tired of carrying other people's loads.

 

[ThePicketts]

Doesn't affect me at all. I tip, but I don't like being told I HAVE to tip

It also offends me that I'm being MADE to tip because (possibly) others don't. Tired of carrying other people's loads.

Word.

 

[FJS961]

Word +1

 

[ThePicketts]

Ok....so like it or not, it is a service that is supposed to be tipped. That is essentially how most of these people get paid. People who think it costs so much in the first place compared to here or there so they don't tip (IMO) are the reason for this policy change. Is it more expensive than at home, heck yes, so is a pop at the airport or the sweatshirts in the gift shop at Disney. Vacation destinations rip us off....no one is REALLY surprised by this. It's not new news. If you don't like the cost of the procedure then don't get the procedure done. But you should tip if you have it done! I exprience auto gratuity when I eat out with a large group of people. I pay it and never give it a second thought. If I really like their service I tip more. Maybe Disney should just call it a surcharge and people wouldn't get so bent out of shape. But then people would complain that they don't call it a tip and they feel as though they need to tip something!
I do hope/expect it will lessen the hard sell. I seriously doubt most people LIKE or ENJOY pushing a sales pitch at people they know don't want to hear them (I work in sales....but maybe I am different than most people). When they know they are guaranteed to get paid via tip, perhaps they won't feel the need to push products. If I am wrong, then I will no longer use the spa services. I HATE the hard sell and spend half of the time in the service steeling myself for it. I, on the other hand, always tip, and this policy change will not affect me at all.....

Maybe the point is the pre determined gratuity. Gratuity is to show gratitude. It is up to the professional to perform to the standard of an 18% tip.
Also, one poster also said that the industry standard is 15%. What is to prevent a 20% DCL determined gratuity? Or a 120% gratuity?
Is DCL doing this for the welfare of the worker or is this a corporate way to pay them LESS and subsidize it by a fee?

 

[emilyann415]

Doesn't affect me at all. I tip, but I don't like being told I HAVE to tip

It also offends me that I'm being MADE to tip because (possibly) others don't. Tired of carrying other people's loads.

No one LIKES being told what to do I agree. But don't you run into pre paid gratuities in other areas? It happens all the time. I don't see why people are up in arms about it in a spa type setting but not in restaurants (usually when a group is larger than say 6 or so) or I've never seen these kind of threads posted about auto gratuities for bar bills? I guess I don't see why this particular service makes it so offensive.

 

[emilyann415]

Maybe the point is the pre determined gratuity. Gratuity is to show gratitude. It is up to the professional to perform to the standard of an 18% tip.
Also, one poster also said that the industry standard is 15%. What is to prevent a 20% DCL determined gratuity? Or a 120% gratuity?
Is DCL doing this for the welfare of the worker or is this a corporate way to pay them LESS and subsidize it by a fee?

Nothing is to stop them. They set their policy. They state it very plainly and you can choose to pay for the service along with auto gratuity or not. I don't see a real value in their pedicures so I get one before I leave from my regular person. That MY choice (they charge auto gratuity also). I have a friend that refuses to pay the cost of a massage in a spa on vacation so she always takes one extra day of vacation after she returns and gets a massage at home. It costs less and that is her choice as well.

They are already a very expensive cruise line. What's to stop them from doubling their cruise rates? Nothing. I look at the itinerary, the cost, and weigh the pros and cons and decide whether to cruise with them or whether to cruise with another line. My choice. No one can take that choice away from me.