Potential new owner.

Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by Liam518, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Liam518

    Liam518 Earning My Ears

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    Me and my wife have been contemplating purchasing DVC for some time now. We are both 40yo with one 4yo daughter. We would be able to purchase points without financing, but we have a few questions about buying resale.

    First one is, and I’ve seen it asked before, but in older threads from 2012-2016. Why drop the money to own, when I can rent for not much more than my annual dues will be. I’ve seen dues for 150 points run about $1000 depending on resort. I can rent enough points for a trip for $1500, the $500 savings will take years to break even, or am I missing something?

    Next dilemma is, we are partial to the Boardwalk resort for many reasons. Does it make sense to buy there for approximately the same price as other resorts considering the lease ends in just over 20years? If my family gets 20 years out of it great, but then it’s gone, no option to resell it then.

    If we buy in another resort how difficult is it to book other resorts 7 months out?

    Any help or input would be greatly appreciated.
     
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  2. DduzDis

    DduzDis DIS Veteran

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    I have only rented through a broker and I needed ~245 points each time. At (then) $15/point my trips were more between the $3500 - $4000 range even to rent. Also, you are not in charge of the reservation as a renter. Any changes would have to go through the actual owner. As the owner that is clearly not a problem.

    We bought with the intention of owning through the end of the contract. But, we never know for sure what will be happening in 20+ years so we actually like that the deed ends at a specific time.

    The difficulty to change resorts depends greatly on the time of year and the type of room. Studios go quickly at most resorts, but nearly immediately during busy times. The general advice I've seen (and done) is buy where you wouldn't mind staying if you can't switch to a desired resort at the 7 month window. Don't buy super cheap points thinking all of the rooms you would want to switch to will be available. It's getting harder.
     
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  4. _auroraborealis_

    _auroraborealis_ I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.

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    There are drawbacks to rental:
    • Rental demand is far higher than owners renting points.
    • Lack of control of the reservation.
    • Rental pricing has gone up recently and should be expected to go up several times as dues and buy-in costs rise.
    If you want to stay at Boardwalk with any regularity, you need to buy Boardwalk.

    I would not expect to easily change studios October through marathon or any holiday/runDisney weekends. I would expect difficulty booking BCV, VGF, VGC and CCV studios year-round, with BWV growing harder over the next 5-10 years as well. Waitlist and luck is the only way you ever get BWV Standard, AKV Value or AKV Club at any time of the year at 7 months.
     
  5. kniquy

    kniquy DIS Veteran

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    There is an element of risk when you rent. There are pros and cons to each side.
    Cons of renting - You are not in charge of your reservation, if the member who rented you the reservation doesn't pay their MF then - poof that reservation will disappear.
    If you needed to change the reservation as a renter you might be out all that money.
    You have to go through them to set up the dining plan.

    Pros for renting - As a renter you could choose not to travel to WDW one year and put your funds towards other trips. You are not responsible for yearly MF

    As an owner - When you own you do have more control about what you do, when you book and where you can stay. If something comes up and you need to change your reservation then you can change (there are some restrictions/limitations depending on how close you are to the trip and what will happen to the points you use, but more flexibility than if you rented).

    As an owner if you wanted to travel elsewhere one year and not use your points you have a couple options. You can bank them for use in the next year, which might allow you to splurge with a larger suite or a longer trip. Another option is that you can rent out your points, which could be money towards your other vacation or just to cover your MF with a little extra cash in pocket.

    If you buy some direct points (min 75 points) then you can receive the perks -- the savings from the perks - AP discounts, dining and shopping discounts - can add up over time.

    As for 7 months availability - year round studios have the most competition. Many people only buy small contracts and can only afford studios. Generally you can find SSR or OKW, but studios elsewhere are limited. 1BR and 2BR availability is usually pretty good, because they cost more points. If you are considering anytime between Oct and Marathon weekend in Jan -- you better book your home resort at the 11 month mark. Any time of year it is probably best to book your home resort and then at 7 months you could see what the availability would be at other resorts, but at least you would have some sort of reservation.

    The length of the contract was a factor when we bought - we ruled out those contracts ending in 2042 because we knew at that point when we are in our 60's we will hopefully still be able to travel to WDW. And the other factor was if we wanted to sell at some point there would be more value in a contract that has 20 years left vs one that has 3 years left.

    You do have to put some weight on buying where you know you will be happy and buying what you can afford. Many people buy multiple contracts. So you could start with a BW contract and if in a few years you fall in love with another property you could add on a smaller contract elsewhere.
     
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  6. kboo

    kboo DIS Veteran

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    Everything @kniquy and @_auroraborealis_ said. We rented points 3-4 times before buying in, and during the times we rented, I often wondered the same as you did. Since we never looked to rent points until we were sure we had our travel dates set, we were *less* concerned about the nonrefundable nature of renting - but then the tradeoff was that sometimes what we were looking for just wasn't available, we couldn't see availability ourselves, and we had to find an owner who had enough points they were willing to rent. Don't get me wrong, we had very good experiences renting, but we had to be flexible about where and what views we would stay in, and always always had to be ready to start looking 10-11 months in advance. There is for sure a lot more flexibility as an owner, not to mention the ability to book much more easily at holidays.

    Our first rental, we were in a BLT 2br lake view for 9-10 nights, it was 400+ points. The owner we found had to use points from 2 different contracts to book as a split stay. To set up Magical Express, we had to give all our info and flight info to the owner, which didn't happen until much later. To complicate matters, we had a group of 9 people total coming from 3 different places, so it was a lot of info to manage. And while the owner was quite responsive when renting, he had understandably moved on by the time we had DME info ready, and it took many calls, emails and texts to get it set up. As an owner now, I realize what a hassle that all must have been.

    You can forget about booking AKV value or concierge, BWV standard (esp studios) (and sometimes BW view), BLT standard any size (and sometimes theme park), and often VGF standard studios.

    For our first stay as owners, the BLT standard studios were completely booked and even the lake view studios had missing dates at 10 months out. a 1br standard also was not available. I ended up making a partial reservation in the LV studio, and then having to check the site every day (stalking) until there was availability for the whole week. Then decided we wanted to be in a 1br standard, and long story short, had to piece together a stay in 1br standard day by day. We had made a backup reservation at BWV 1br pool and garden right at 7 months, but really wanted to be at BLT.

    As a result, I am online right at 8am, 11 months to the day, for the stays I want. For our Thanksgiving trip, we got the 2br standard at 8:00 am and when I completed booking, the 2br standards were gone. None of that would have been possible as a renter.
     
  7. kboo

    kboo DIS Veteran

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    If you really love the BWV, it is worth buying there so when you want to go over Xmas, or at low points times, you will not get shut out. With 1 kid, maybe think about buying enough points to stay in a 1br so if you can't get a studio, or decide you want some space, you can have it. 1br are GENERALLY much easier to book than studios, so you might have some success if you buy points somewhere else and don't have your heart set on BWV every stay.

    If you haven't tried any of the other resorts, now might be a good time to rent points for some stays at other resorts, especially those with a longer end date - both to see if you like any of them better, and also to get a good sense of availability and point costs at those other resorts. With a 4yo daughter, you might like some of the MK resorts, and BLT is a good value (and with a longer end date), especially in standard. AKV might be an option too, for end date and price, especially since you aren't so dependent on big bulky strollers with a 4yo.
     
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  8. DVCJoy724

    DVCJoy724 Earning My Ears

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    Just like buying versus renting a home, with purchasing you own something tangible - you have an asset, that if you had to, you could sell. That to me is a huge difference. Of course things can change, but up until now, DVC has maintained a lot of its value and many, many owners have successfully sold - many for even more than what they paid.
     
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  9. blueant315

    blueant315 Mouseketeer

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    Hi Liam - we have very similar circumstances. I am upper 30s with a 4.5 and 2.5 year old and just had an offer accepted on 100 points at BWVs on Saturday! We rented points for our December stay and had a mixed experience (overall it was great, but it just didn't work out how we'd originally planned). I wanted to do a split stay with 3 days at BWV standard studios and 5 days at BLT standard studios - we were not able to book either of those, even after pushing our dates back one week. We wound up with 3 nights at AKL standard studio, 5 nights BLT lake view studio and an added day at POR because of how flights worked out once they were released.

    As an owner I look forward to being able to book the cheaper, harder to book rooms myself instead of relying on a renter. I also will be able to add a day onto the front and back of my reservation so I can release a day or two once I find out what flight options are. And we can also completely change the reservation if for some reason we need to cancel. There's a lot of pressure to choose a non-refundable vacation 11 months before it will happen.

    The current rental market makes me feel comfortable we can rent out points when there are years we choose to travel elsewhere and don't need the points.

    As to why buy BWV or BCV when they have a shorter life - I feel that their price reflects this and is totally worth it. They have an amazing location - you can walk to two parks and have phenomenal entertainment options and they cost less per point and take fewer points to rent than the monorail resorts, which offer much less walkability. I am not a fan of Disney transportation, so walking to my destination is very valuable to me. Also, your primary cost of DVC ownership is dues, not purchase price - EPCOT resort dues are of course comparable to other resorts because you will stop paying them in 2042 compared to the other resorts where you'd be paying MF for the next 50 years. Not to mention, look at the maintenance fees of BWV/BCV compared to the newer resorts - newer resorts have comparable MFs per point as BWV and BCV even though those resorts are older and in theory would need more maintaining. BWVs first MFs were at ~$3.70 in 1996 and BLT's were $3.67 in 2009. BWVs are now $7.17 and BLT's $6.40. So BWVs MFs have increased 94% over 23 years and BLT's have increased 74% over just 10 years.

    FWIW I also plan to buy at a monorail resort, so I of course do not think they are bad buys at all. I just think the EPCOT resorts are written off by some for their shorter life and to me they seem adequately priced for this. If you enjoy staying in the EPCOT/DHS area then they seem like perfect investments. And you definitely need the 11 month advantage to ensure you can get into these resorts consistently. But that's also one of the biggest downsides to buying over renting - if you want to stay at a resort that's not your home you have to either rent out your points and rent someone else's points for 11 month advantage or just wait to see what's available at 7 months.
     
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  10. _auroraborealis_

    _auroraborealis_ I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.

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    Let me forewarn you: For the dates in December, they remain very hard to get, even as an owner.
     
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  11. blueant315

    blueant315 Mouseketeer

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    No doubt - the crowd levels when we were there were much higher than I expected. But as an owner I have more options - walking, wait listing, changing dates but only after knowing exactly what's available. Ownership gives you more information to make a more informed decision. I can also make a decision immediately and book compared to the delay from the rental company letting me know my choices weren't available.
     
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  12. iheartglaciers

    iheartglaciers DIS Veteran

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    I rented a few times before buying. At first I had the view that it was better to keep my money liquid and rent (which remains a strong argument), but I eventually decided to buy for more flexibility and control over my reservations. Also rental prices have been rising, especially for popular resorts. It's not reliable to book at/after 7 months, particularly for the times of year I like to go, so I would have to find an owner that could book at 11 months.

    The flexibility has been great for us. I often speculatively book trips at 11 months just in case we decide we really want to plan a vacation then. We also have switched our resort at 7 months (most recently picking up VGF in December), which wouldn't be possible with renting. And of course most owners won't change dates or waitlist for a renter.

    With the shorter contract, BWV may not be as good a deal as some other resorts, but if you love BWV (like we do), it makes sense to buy there. The lower point chart (even without standard rooms) helps make up for the more costly per point/per year price. We stay at BWV for part of every stay and wouldn't be happy otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  13. mustinjourney

    mustinjourney DIS Veteran

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  14. Just People

    Just People Lurker

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    One thing that discourages me from buying at DVC is that seems to only work out for advanced planners. I hear a lot of how at the 7-month mark, there is very little availability. Usually, as a guest booking a regular hotel, I can find something i'm happy with at the 2-month mark, and even then I have 5 days before my trip to cancel for any reason. Also, even though a lot of members claims that discounts are not guaranteed or are not gonna last once (blah blah blah) opens, there is hardly ever a discount not offered on rooms. DVC pushes their accommodations as deluxe, but having stayed at both deluxe hotel and DVC version of certain resorts, there really is a big difference. DVC wants its potential customers to make a emotional purchase emphasizing the "magic."
     
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  15. blueant315

    blueant315 Mouseketeer

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    I definitely wouldn't buy DVC if I wasn't going to book around the 11 month mark pr maybe 7 months if I was feeling crazy as you're much less likely to get what you want if you wait. But I like to plan in advance and love getting a prime location for a fraction of the cost of even sales prices for Disney prices. If flexibility's your primary goal then I would say booking through Disney is the way to go for sure. I have found the Disney discounts to be almost as limited as the DVC availability at times - due to Disney's generous cancellation policy it seems that people book a lot of the discounted hotels when they are released and then hold onto multiple reservations until close to the deadline. But if you're flexible about where you want to stay, then it will probably work out fine for you. I have stayed in Disney direct bookings and at DVC, but never at the same resort so I can't compare rooms. But I'm in it strictly for location as I love walking to parks, but the price of BCV, BWV, and BLT direct through Disney has always been more than I am willing to spend. So if I can get a cheaper room at one of these resorts through DVC, even if it's slightly less fancy, I am ALL IN. But I can certainly see why it might not work well for others - you make great points.
     
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  16. jerseygal

    jerseygal DIS Veteran

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    i wholeheartedly agree and have told friends that consider buying, that DVC, especially now with the difficulty of switching at 7 months is for advance planners. If for whatever reason, you have a job that is hard to commit a trip 7 months in advance or enjoy taking more spontaneous vacations, I would not purchase DVC. If you enjoy planning at LEAST 7 months in advance like I do, I recommend a purchase!::yes::
     
  17. chainkid

    chainkid DIS Veteran

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    I am a super planner so DVC works great for me but if I weren't then the only way it could work is if you were retired or have a job where you can take off when ever you want with no problem. I have stayed at all or almost all of the DVC resorts by booking last minute trips to experience each one. Rather than book a date certain I go online and check availability. I go to which ever resort I fancy that has a couple days open. Always find something for short trips . If you live in florida and can go frequently maybe DVC would work but it works best when you are a planner
     
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