POTC Ride?

[steffali]

Does anyone know if the new POTC ride is accessible now for wheelchairs? Or is it that same way for boarding the boat by stepping in and out???

 

[SueM in MN]

I have not heard anything and don't believe it will be.
There are some problems with making the boats for that ride wheelchair accessible.
One is that there is a drop, so the wheelchair would have to be very well secured. All of the attractions with wheelchair cars are basically on a level.

The other reason is that the boarding and exit for Pirates are actually in 2 buildings and the exit is one floor below the boarding area. In order to get the boats back up to boarding area, they go thru a ramped area that has just enough clearance to let the empty boat thru.

 

[steffali]

Ahhhhh I see, Thanks for the info.

 

[cmwade77]

I have not heard anything and don't believe it will be.
There are some problems with making the boats for that ride wheelchair accessible.
One is that there is a drop, so the wheelchair would have to be very well secured. All of the attractions with wheelchair cars are basically on a level.

The other reason is that the boarding and exit for Pirates are actually in 2 buildings and the exit is one floor below the boarding area. In order to get the boats back up to boarding area, they go thru a ramped area that has just enough clearance to let the empty boat thru.

It actually would be very easy, although costly, to make a boat wheelchair accessible, now I am sure they have some tranfer method available so there must be a way that this could be accomplished.

 

[Schmeck]

It would depend on how 'deep' the water is at PotC, wouldn't it? You couldn't have a power wheelchair on a free moving boat without the extra weight issue being a big problem. The wheelchair would have to go down into the boat, or the boat could become top heavy. There would have to be a proper ramp down into the boat as well.

When exiting, doesn't everyone get off on the other side of the boat? Then, there'd also have to be a ramp on that side as well. That would probably take up most of the space across the boat, so that the wheelchair person wouldn't be able to have anyone sit next to him/her either.

It could be done, but only if the boats are supported along the entire ride by a strong ride mechanism. I don't think PotC works that way.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I was on the ride last night. It appears the only things they did was improve the sound quality and make some minor changes and/or additions to audio-animatronic characters. There did not seem to be any changes to the boats.

Also, they cannot board you at the exit, or allow you to exit at the boarding area as the space between those two areas is only large enough for clearance for the boats and not any passengers.

 

[cmwade77]

It would depend on how 'deep' the water is at PotC, wouldn't it? You couldn't have a power wheelchair on a free moving boat without the extra weight issue being a big problem. The wheelchair would have to go down into the boat, or the boat could become top heavy. There would have to be a proper ramp down into the boat as well.

When exiting, doesn't everyone get off on the other side of the boat? Then, there'd also have to be a ramp on that side as well. That would probably take up most of the space across the boat, so that the wheelchair person wouldn't be able to have anyone sit next to him/her either.

It could be done, but only if the boats are supported along the entire ride by a strong ride mechanism. I don't think PotC works that way.

Actually no, the way to have it work is have the boat work like the one from Disneyland's it's a small world, ours have plat forms that the boat sits on and they have a ramp that the cast member simply picks up and puts down for the wheel chair to rolll up on. The differenc that there would be on Pirates is that it would have to use a floating foundation system, to where in relation to gravity the wheel chair would always remain level, even when the boat is going down the drop. Now what you would have to do in WDW is find a way for a person to roll a wheel chair up to the normal loading area, which I assume they already have as ADA would certianly require that a wheelchair be able to be brough within a reasonable distance of the boat, then they would have to exit at the regular exit of course, as the lift to get back up isn't part of the ride as it is in the California counterpart. It is doable, albeit a lot easier out here in Cali where all wheel chairs board and exit in the same place.

 

[SueM in MN]

Actually no, the way to have it work is have the boat work like the one from Disneyland's it's a small world, ours have plat forms that the boat sits on and they have a ramp that the cast member simply picks up and puts down for the wheel chair to rolll up on. The differenc that there would be on Pirates is that it would have to use a floating foundation system, to where in relation to gravity the wheel chair would always remain level, even when the boat is going down the drop. Now what you would have to do in WDW is find a way for a person to roll a wheel chair up to the normal loading area, which I assume they already have as ADA would certianly require that a wheelchair be able to be brough within a reasonable distance of the boat, then they would have to exit at the regular exit of course, as the lift to get back up isn't part of the ride as it is in the California counterpart. It is doable, albeit a lot easier out here in Cali where all wheel chairs board and exit in the same place.

The Small World boats in WDW are the same as it sounds like the ones in DL are and those boats have been wheelchair accessible at least as long as we have been going to WDW (the first time we had someone in a wheelchair was 1987). The wheelchair boats have a ramp built into the boat and the boat fits quite closely into the space at the boarding area. They don't use a portable ramp (or at least have never when we have gotten on or seen). The boats at Mexico in Epcot's WS are the same. This is a picture of the Small World wheelchair boat from allearsnet.com

NOTE: The boat is not in the boarding area in the picture. The black area at the back of the boat is the built in ramp. The lane between the seats is also ramped a little to slope toward the front of the boat. The wheelchair is parked with the front tires between the two grey lines, which have a depression between them. That depression, plus the brakes on the wheelchair are what hold the chair in place during the ride. Since the ride is slow and level, there is no need for other restraint. The wheelchair user sits fairly high in comparison to the other guests, but has the seat between them and the side of the boat as 'buffers' so they don't feel like they are going to fall into the water.

At POC, there are bars/gates to separate the guests into rows for boarding. You can get sort of close, but not right up to the boat with a wheelchair. This picture from allearsnet.com shows the gates and bars relative to the boat.

They would need to get rid of some of those for wheelchair boarding since you can't roll a wheelchair very close to the boat. At Small World, they accomplish that by having wheelchair users board at the exit side of the boat where there are no gates (the non-wheelchair boarding and exit are at the same area, just on opposite sides of the boat). The ADA doesn't actually come into play unless they make a total renovation - what they just completed would be considered cosmetic changes and wouldn't require any ADA upgrading. (I'm not saying that's good, just how it is).

Your idea is interesting in theory, but I'm not sure how well it would work in practice. There would be a lot of things to solve - like how to make the floating platform stable enough for boarding people and wheelchairs of various sizes and shapes and still have enough 'play' to allow the gravity effect to work. Restraining the wheelchair on the boat could be accomplished with the same Q'straint brand restraints and occupant seat belts as they use on things like the Safari at AK. I don't know if the weight of the rider and wheelchair would have any bearing, but it doesn't make a difference for the things that go on solid surfaces, but might in the water.

I know they worked a long time on getting wheelchair access for the Jungle Cruise boats. It was about 2 years form the time someone first posted on this board that they had a boat ready to go until it actually was reliably in service. I also know from some of the Jungle Cruise CMs that they had a number of concepts that looked like they would work on paper, but didn't in real life. It can be a long way from concept to actually working, but they have been able to do it in the past. It would be nice if they could make the POC wheelchair accessible, but I'm not holding my breath (we pretty much have had to give it up since it's too hard for us to lift DD in).

 

[cmwade77]

The Small World boats in WDW are the same as it sounds like the ones in DL are and those boats have been wheelchair accessible at least as long as we have been going to WDW (the first time we had someone in a wheelchair was 1987). The wheelchair boats have a ramp built into the boat and the boat fits quite closely into the space at the boarding area. They don't use a portable ramp (or at least have never when we have gotten on or seen). The boats at Mexico in Epcot's WS are the same. This is a picture of the Small World wheelchair boat from allearsnet.com
No they are not, our's are completely different, our small world boats are actually colored versions of Pirates boats, exact same boat though, just a different theme. And the system using a mechanical lift up and down inside the boat, similar to how an elvator or more precisely a wheel chair lift would work, just portable on a boat. This does mean that the wheel chair boat must be charged nightly of course, but we have two of them just in case. Basically all we do is take out the middle two rows on the wheel chair boat, the rest remain intact and fully usuable as full rows. This could be accomplished on Pirates without much difficulty, I wish I had a picture of our wheel chair boats They are completely different from Disneyworld's boats, I am trying to find a picture and I wil add one if I can find one.

And basically what we have is a ramp to take them up the side of the boat so that they can go right on the boat, again ours use a mechincal lift of sorts, which is why I say it can be done on Pirates using similar technology, just with some modifications to it, basically it would be a stable plat form when boarding and then would be on a floating plat form once te guest was situated and yes you might need to add restraints for safety, but that might also be overboard.

I can not find a picture of it anywhere, but it is indeed possible, I assure you, and still can leave at least three complete rows for other guests.



As for praticality it would work as follows, it would use the lift system as described and based off of Disneyland's it's a small world, the wheel chair would be lowered into place, then once lowered the floating plat form would take effect, would handle every wheel chair on the market, no, but it could if using the square platform (oh, like I said we have two wheel char boats, one with a square plat form and one with a round ne, the square one has more area and is the prefered boat when it's working as it can accomodate more models of wheel chairs) it would accomodate approximately 90% of all wheel chairs sold.

Ok, as for weight, what they do is by eliminating the two rows they have eliminated the weight that would be queal to or grater than the wheel chair, the individual doesn't count, as they would still be in the boat anyway, so the weight of the person ahs already been taken into account, it's just the added equipment. They also load the boats slightly differently in order to accomodate this. Bottom line is it can be done, the other thing that they are trying to do at our priates is have a transfer boat, to where basically the side of the boat would swing open, like it does in Big Thunder Mountain Railroad (at least here in cali) preventing people having to lift people up and in. Out here in Cali thay also now have a transfer car on Splash Mountain as well that does not require lifting, although I have not seen this one in action, but apparently every one of our new vehicles are capable of it, so I have been told by several cast members. I would suggest asking at each attraction, as they are constatly being updated, they may suprise you and have something that might make it possible. I know Haunted Mansion does in Cali, so I would assume that in WDW they do as well. There are many ways things can be reasonably accomodated and I would say Disney is trying to do them as fast as they can. The wheel chair boat on Jungle Cruise was a lot more difficult here than in Florida, as we don't use a flume system here, it is on a track much like the Mark Twain and other boats are, which apparently they tried using the same setup as at WDW and the boat would sink every time they put a wheel chair on it, they got it working though finally here, s it just goes to show that these things can be done if Disney will simply put up the money to do it. I am a drafter by trade so perhaps I will sketch up a design of how the Pirates boat could work, it is very possible to do I can assure you of that.

 

[SueM in MN]

No they are not, our's are completely different, our small world boats are actually colored versions of Pirates boats, exact same boat though, just a different theme. And the system using a mechanical lift up and down inside the boat, similar to how an elvator or more precisely a wheel chair lift would work, just portable on a boat. This does mean that the wheel chair boat must be charged nightly of course, but we have two of them just in case. Basically all we do is take out the middle two rows on the wheel chair boat, the rest remain intact and fully usuable as full rows. This could be accomplished on Pirates without much difficulty, I wish I had a picture of our wheel chair boats They are completely different from Disneyworld's boats, I am trying to find a picture and I wil add one if I can find one.

And basically what we have is a ramp to take them up the side of the boat so that they can go right on the boat, again ours use a mechincal lift of sorts, which is why I say it can be done on Pirates using similar technology, just with some modifications to it, basically it would be a stable plat form when boarding and then would be on a floating plat form once te guest was situated and yes you might need to add restraints for safety, but that might also be overboard.

I can not find a picture of it anywhere, but it is indeed possible, I assure you, and still can leave at least three complete rows for other guests.



As for praticality it would work as follows, it would use the lift system as described and based off of Disneyland's it's a small world, the wheel chair would be lowered into place, then once lowered the floating plat form would take effect, would handle every wheel chair on the market, no, but it could if using the square platform (oh, like I said we have two wheel char boats, one with a square plat form and one with a round ne, the square one has more area and is the prefered boat when it's working as it can accomodate more models of wheel chairs) it would accomodate approximately 90% of all wheel chairs sold.

Ok, as for weight, what they do is by eliminating the two rows they have eliminated the weight that would be queal to or grater than the wheel chair, the individual doesn't count, as they would still be in the boat anyway, so the weight of the person ahs already been taken into account, it's just the added equipment. They also load the boats slightly differently in order to accomodate this. Bottom line is it can be done, the other thing that they are trying to do at our priates is have a transfer boat, to where basically the side of the boat would swing open, like it does in Big Thunder Mountain Railroad (at least here in cali) preventing people having to lift people up and in. Out here in Cali thay also now have a transfer car on Splash Mountain as well that does not require lifting, although I have not seen this one in action, but apparently every one of our new vehicles are capable of it, so I have been told by several cast members. I would suggest asking at each attraction, as they are constatly being updated, they may suprise you and have something that might make it possible. I know Haunted Mansion does in Cali, so I would assume that in WDW they do as well. There are many ways things can be reasonably accomodated and I would say Disney is trying to do them as fast as they can. The wheel chair boat on Jungle Cruise was a lot more difficult here than in Florida, as we don't use a flume system here, it is on a track much like the Mark Twain and other boats are, which apparently they tried using the same setup as at WDW and the boat would sink every time they put a wheel chair on it, they got it working though finally here, s it just goes to show that these things can be done if Disney will simply put up the money to do it. I am a drafter by trade so perhaps I will sketch up a design of how the Pirates boat could work, it is very possible to do I can assure you of that.

Thanks for your explanation. I think I can get an idea of what you are saying. There isn't anything at WDW like that.

I have heard that one of the problems on Jungle Cruise was sinking boats.

The last time we were on Splash, they did not have a transfer car (which would make it possible for a lot of people who can't ride now to ride.)

We have never tried to put DD on Big Thunder (we have enough trouble holding her into her seat in Test Track, which is one of her favorites). I doubt that they have a Big Tunder car in Florida that the side opens up - no one has mentioned it and I think it would have been mentioned if it existed.

There is a car on Haunted Mansion that opens a bit wider for transfers.

Hopefully, they will add some of these improvements to Florida if they are not already there.

 

[steffali]

I am hoping to ride POTC in Jan. and see for myself if my DD could get out of her wheelchair and step in the boat with our help. I think the problem would be her getting out of the boat. Oh well I will see for myself I guess

 

[cmwade77]

Thanks for your explanation. I think I can get an idea of what you are saying. There isn't anything at WDW like that.

I have heard that one of the problems on Jungle Cruise was sinking boats.

The last time we were on Splash, they did not have a transfer car (which would make it possible for a lot of people who can't ride now to ride.)

We have never tried to put DD on Big Thunder (we have enough trouble holding her into her seat in Test Track, which is one of her favorites). I doubt that they have a Big Tunder car in Florida that the side opens up - no one has mentioned it and I think it would have been mentioned if it existed.

There is a car on Haunted Mansion that opens a bit wider for transfers.

Hopefully, they will add some of these improvements to Florida if they are not already there.

Big Thunder is fairly new on the ada car here and I believe the only reason they did it was because they had to get new trains after one of the accidents and they were probably required to replace them with ADA compliant trains, but I would expect to see the improvement soon in Florida, as it is one the most complemented improvements that they have made for ADA accss.

 

[SueM in MN]

I am hoping to ride POTC in Jan. and see for myself if my DD could get out of her wheelchair and step in the boat with our help. I think the problem would be her getting out of the boat. Oh well I will see for myself I guess

We have been on it many times. My DD can't walk without someone holding her up and she would not be able to step down, so DH carries her into the boat and lifts her in (more brute strength than anything).
You can't tell too well from the picture I posted in an earlier post (the yellow boat), but you have to step over the side of the boat, maybe 4-5 inches (just a guestimate). Then here is one step down - I'd estimate about a 8 inches or so to get your feet onto the seat of the boat. Then another step down to get your feet into the foot area of the boat.
Foldable wheelchairs are flung into the back of the boat by the CM. Non-foldable or too heavy wheelchairs are left at the entrance to the queue and then they trade you for a folding park wheelchair, which you can use in line. At the exit, the CM will take the wheelchair out of the boat and then you go back to the entrance queue if you need to trade back for your own wheelchair.

 

[SueM in MN]

Big Thunder is fairly new on the ada car here and I believe the only reason they did it was because they had to get new trains after one of the accidents and they were probably required to replace them with ADA compliant trains, but I would expect to see the improvement soon in Florida, as it is one the most complemented improvements that they have made for ADA accss.

I don't have time to find a link for it, but there is a set of ADA guidelines for handicapped accessibility of theme parks/amusement parks that spells out some ways to make things accessible and minimum measurements, etc.

The end result is that the parks have to address accessibility in new attractions, but don't (in general) have to retrofit existing attractions to make them more accessible (unless they are remodeling completely).

I think, from reading the guidelines, that if they just replace ride cars/trains, they are not required to replace them with accessible ones. If they do a remodel that's mostly cosmetic (changing theme, changing something without changing the structure), they are not required to make the attraction more accessible. WDW does usually go beyond what is very strictly required, which is nice when it happens. They do have a large enough portion of guests with disabilities that having wheelchair accessible cars is an expectation of the guests and a more accessible car speeds up loading/greatly increases safety of some people who would get out of their wheelchairs with great difficulty if there is no car that they can stay in the wheelchair and ride. So putting in wheelchair accessible cars (or at least ones that are more easily entered from a wheelchair) is a win for everyone.

 

[steffali]

We have been on it many times. My DD can't walk without someone holding her up and she would not be able to step down, so DH carries her into the boat and lifts her in (more brute strength than anything).
You can't tell too well from the picture I posted in an earlier post (the yellow boat), but you have to step over the side of the boat, maybe 4-5 inches (just a guestimate). Then here is one step down - I'd estimate about a 8 inches or so to get your feet onto the seat of the boat. Then another step down to get your feet into the foot area of the boat.
Foldable wheelchairs are flung into the back of the boat by the CM. Non-foldable or too heavy wheelchairs are left at the entrance to the queue and then they trade you for a folding park wheelchair, which you can use in line. At the exit, the CM will take the wheelchair out of the boat and then you go back to the entrance queue if you need to trade back for your own wheelchair.

I think I will have to take a solo ride on it first to see if my DD will be able to step in and out of the boat, her biggest problem would be getting out and she is to big to be lifted up. Oh well worse case is that we don't ride POTC but at least we will be in WDW and that will be good enough for us!!!

 

[SueM in MN]

I think I will have to take a solo ride on it first to see if my DD will be able to step in and out of the boat, her biggest problem would be getting out and she is to big to be lifted up. Oh well worse case is that we don't ride POTC but at least we will be in WDW and that will be good enough for us!!!

Riding it yourself is a good idea and I agree that the getting in is probably not as hard as the getting out.
If they have not changed the boats at WDW for POC, the regular boats for Pirates were pretty much the same as the regular boats for Small World. The regular boarding area at Small World was about the same as the one at WDW's POC (unless they changed it). The height to step down and up would probably not have changed though.
If you go on Small World first, that could at least give you some idea of how it works without quite as long a wait.