Pool builder rant. Is this normal? (long) (update post 12)

[DVC Jen]

We started working with a highly recommended pool builder in early August to design and build an inground gunite pool w/spa.

Originally the spa was going to be a part of the pool, but then because we do not have a natural gas line to our home we had to go with an acrylic spa. Our designer told us she sat down with one of the co-owners for the pool builder, the owner of the spa company and herself. They sat down for hours and discussed out to "bury" the spa and make it appear to be a normal gunite spa. They got it all worked out, in the contract and it was signed.

Then we were sent to a stone yard to pick out the stone for our pool/spa. The yard she sent us to did not have ANY stone that I liked. I specifically told her I didn 't want brown stone. Well the owner of the stone yard did not have anything BUT brown stone. He took us from pallet to pallet to pallet showing me differing shades of brown. I kept nicely telling him no. Then on the far side of the yard I saw a small pallet of stone that was PERFECT. After inquiring about it he informed me "that is an upgrade stone and you can't afford it". WHAT? How would he know what we can and can not afford???? Basically after nailing down how much more it would be and saying YES WE CAN.. he told us it was hard to get and he didn't want to have to try to track it down. Then he led us over to yet another pallet of brown stone. He was extremely rude and condescending. Finally I got in his face and said "I hate it! It looks like baby doo!" We left.

After 6 hours and three different trips to stone yards in 102 degree heat we found exactly what we wanted and they had plenty of it there.

OK.. the day for the owner to come out and lay the flags where the waterline of the pool is going to be comes. He puts the flags down, and leaves. I come home and notice the flags are very close to the property line. Like 2 and a half feet close and we have a 5ft easement. So we call and ask about it. They are quite irritated that we have the nerve to question Ted. AFter all he has been doing this since 1966.

The day of the excavation comes (a week late). We were told this is a really cool thing to see and we should try to take the day off work. So both myself and Ian took the day off and we let our kids take the day off school. Ted comes out and moves the flags (never admitting he made a mistake. Instead he made is sound like he was trying to appease me). He then goes on to ask my DH what he does. Well DH is a manager for an internation company that deals with military contracts. But he humbly says "I'm an engineer". To that Ted starts laughing and says, "Oh an enginerd. Where's your pocket protector? Where is your slide rule?" I was dumbfounded. He then starts telling us they can't bury the spa. It won't worked and when he tells us what he wants to do we are still so in shock over the insults we say "we will have to see what it looks like". He must have taken that for a yes.

Then the excavator is here. He fills two dump trucks, jumps off his shovel and knocks on our backdoor. He says he has left his cell phone charger at h ome and his phone is nearly dead. Could we find the closest cell phone store so he could go get a new charger. Being the very nice man my DH is.. he did. Off goes the excavator. Two and a half hours later the trucks are back and he is no where to be found. 3 hours later he is knocking on our door saying they will be back tomorrow. WHAT??? Turns out they didn't have a place to dump the dirt. I could not believe it. Who would start a dig and not have a place lined up to dump? I missed a day of pay, my husband wasted a vacation day and our girls missed school and have make-up work for nothing. I mention this to him and he shrugs his shoulders and informs me that I can let the kids skip again tomorrow and kids skip all the time. I was livid.

Continued in next post

 

[DVC Jen]

OK.. the next day the dig was supposed to start at 7am. It didn't. I had to leave the house for work at 8:30 and they still weren't here. I did manage to get home around 10:30 to check up on them and they were JUST starting.

The rebar/steel goes in a few days later. Then the gunite goes in and they pour a pad for the spa (since they are backing out on burying it).

We are told a day the stone/tile guys would be by to do that work. We are also to leave the second of the five checks that are scheduled for payment. Well they came to get the check, but the stone was not delivered, done, nor was the tile/coping. So then we get a call.. they do not have enough stone and it will take 2 weeks to get it. WHAT?? By now they have known we would need that stone for a month. They knew how much we would need. They had plenty of time to order it. AFter DH gives them a nice "lecture" the miraculously find the stone to be delivered in 3 days. The tile and coping goes in. It looks great.

Meanwhile, we have a landscaper on contract and we try to find out when he can begin his work. Ted the owner of the company tells us next week. (never happened. this was the 1st of three times we have had to reschedule the landscaper)

The spa is delivered. It looks TERRIBLE. We do not like it where they poured the slab. We want it buried like they had planned in the contract (which we all signed and agreed on). The spa looks totally out of place and is blocking a huge portion of the view of the pool. We call them and our calls are not returned.

Finally they are here to do the stone. DH take the day off work as do I to make sure we like the design of the waterfall. We are out there working out how to lay it for maybe 10 minutes. It was not long because I couldn't be there long my hayfever was killing me. Then we get a call from the designer telling us the stone guys are saying we aren't letting them work. WHAT? We hadn't asked them to change anything. Once we agreed on the design we didn't bother them again. yes we peeked to see the progress, but said NOTHING. We were happy with the way it was going. So DH walks out there and asks them what is going on. They totally back down and start falling all over themselves apologizing.

Then we get a call about the spa. They will bury it, but it will cost an extra 1400.00. I thought DH was going to have his eyeballs explode out of his skull. We had a contract that we signed that showed the spa buried. We were not asking them to do anything more or different from what was in that contract. DH is a very calm man. Very collected and non confrontational UNLESS he has a good reason. Then watch out. Well he was yelling at the co-owner of the company (the one who came up with the plan to bury the spa to begin with). We never agree to pay the additional money. They say they will bury the spa.

continued..next post

 

[Cindyluwho]

Welcome to the world of contractors!! The majority of them have no concept of time, never show up when they're supposed to with the supplies they need, etc, etc. We have remodeled 5 homes over the last 15 years and it is a nightmare!!!
My words of advice - if you find a contractor you like, stick with them like glue. Always, always check out their references and make sure their license is current!

 

[DVC Jen]

About 3-4 days have passed. I start thinking about the spa. I am sick of the mess. I am sick of dealing with these people and just want this DONE. So we contact the pool builder and tell them I have reworked the design and we will move the spa over to the side and we won't have to bury it. I want it turned so the wooden panel isn't seen and I want it to still be surrounded by the stone that was in the original plan. Great they are happy with that.

The electrician comes..great. The decking is laid out and ready to go..great. We pass the second inspection.. great.

On Friday we got an email (we have been saving each and every email we have about this pool) stating the decking (concrete) will be poured on Monday.

Today came.. all bright and sunny. No concrete truck.. no decking guys. So Ian calls and leaves a message. It gets returned and he is left a super snotty message that they do not understand why he thought the deckign was goign to be poured today it is scheduled for tomorrow. Now I have the day off work. So I found the email that was sent saying the decking would be poured today. I forwarded to the designer and asked her why should would be so "curt" to Ian and the only reason we thought it would be done today is because she said it would.

We were also supposed to leave the 3rd and 4th checks today for the electrical/stone (stone is not totally done yet) and decking. Well in the email I told her I was not leaving a check/s for ANYONE to pick up until I saw that conrete truck with my own eyes.

Well just a lil while ago we got yet another email from the designer telling us that Ted is willing to go halfs with us because the orignal slab they poured for the spa (that we had not agreed to) had to be jackhammered out because they could not veneer over it. And we owed them another 400.00. It then went on to say if we had anymore questions to contact Denis or Ted (the owners).

She put a lot of other stuff in there that was very belittling about delays and so forth. I have no trouble with delays. I can understand that 100%. I do not understand the numerous emails with snotty comments (that I didn't even mention here). I do not understand why we get snotty remarks when we find them marking off the dig site against city code and we nicely point it out to them. I do not understand why an excavator wouldn't have a place to put the dirt before he starts to dig. I do not understand why he would leave a job site to get a new cell phone charger. I do not understand why they would have a plan for a spa and then come back and say it won't work and try to get us to pay for their mistake. I do not understand why they didn't order that stone when we picked it out so it would be ready. I do not understand why we had 5 different completion dates from 3 different people and none of them have come through yet (leaving us to constantly have to reschedule the landscaper).

I am so incredibly frustrated with these people. All we have ever asked from them is that the communicate with us if there is a problem or delay. They don't. We have never once insulted any member of the company yet they have made snotty and insulting comments to us on at least 5 occassions. I do not understand how t hey can have a clear BBB record and be featured in D magazine (Dallas magazine) as the areas premier pool builder if this is the normal way they conduct business.

Maybe DH and I are just really naive when it comes to contractors. We have never dealt with anything like this before. I just don't understand why they can't be honest, do what they say they are going to do when they say they will do it. Tell us if there is a delay not just let us find out on our own.

There have also been things like getting phone calls here from the designer and being called another womans name because she dialed the wrong number. She tried to get us to buy her daughters outgrown clothes. We would ask simple questions and none of them would understand what we were talking about. But if I would ask a friend they understood perfectly.

Oh.. almost forgot. She had decided for us (nice huh) what kind of finish would be on the decking. After seeing a sample I told her I didn't want it seeded. I didn't like it. Last week we found 3 jars of sample seed pebbles left for us to choose from. It was even in the contract to have the patio a salted finish and yet that never got relayed to the subcontractor. Thank God I will be home tomorrow when they do it (another day of school holiday). If t hey would have seeded it after it was taken out of the contract and rewritten to be salted I would come unglued.

Is all this normal? Do all contractors conduct business like this? I really have a hard time believing that things are this extreme. Delays sure.. totally expected, but this is beyond that.

If you are still reading.. bless you. And thanks for listening to my rant.

 

[diznygirl]

After reading everyone's contractor horror stories, DH and I have come to the conclusion that a contract only helps them - it does you no good whatsoever!

Good luck with this mess!

 

[wilderness01]

Ok bottom line here is that you are getting jacked around. Some of this is par for the course for contractors but some of it is not. Mixed up dates, or more likely they weren't finished with another project and wanted that completed instead, delays, not getting the project finished on time is unfortunately standard with most contractors/projects. But not having a dump site is your pool builder's fault, not the dumptruck drivers fault. Not ordering the proper amount of brick is both the owner's fault and again the pool contractor. I would not pay a dime more than in the original contract and do not give any more checks until you are satisfied. You don't want a totally sour relationship though because if anything goes wrong with the pool/equipment you will have to have him warranty it for the length of the warranty. Good luck.

 

[chrissyk]

Is this normal? No. Is it par for the course with may contractors? Yes. Want it done correctly from now on? Get an attorney. CC all communications to the spa company and the attorney. Have your attorney draft a letter letting the contractor know that you will be enforcing that contract by any legal means necessary, that you won't be paying the additional $1400, etc.

BTW, I'm an "enginurd" also, as is my DH. I have a ZERO crap-tolerance policy, especially when it comes to contractors. We've renovated 2 houses and built one in the past few years. I oversee the work and deal with the contractors about 90% of the time, and DH acts as the "enforcer" when they try to slip the schedule. It works out well for us. We also do not hesitate to cc our attorney on all communications with contractors. We nearly took our home builder to court to get the punch-list work done, but suddenly they came around when our attorney started getting cc'd on all correspondance. These losers do nothing unless compelled to do so, so start compelling them.

 

[DVC Jen]

I forgot to add one more thing. The designer sent us over to see the patio of another pool they had built in a neighboring town. This was when I told her I did not like the seeded look. She thought that maybe if they used larger stones/pebbles I would like it. I didn't.... but that is not what I am writing about now.

During our conversation with the owners of the pool we were looking at they told us they were having problems with final inspection. It turns out that their town requires a backwash system even though their pool (and ours) is a salt water pool and it will never need to be backwashed. Their city is not up to date on all of the newest pool systems therefore they still require the backwashing.

None of this was told to the homeowners prior to completion. They were adamant about warning us to make sure our city did not also require the same thing. They had had their pool for months and this issue had not been resolved. If they did have to put in the backwash system it would be at thier (homeowners) expense.

I asked our designer about this.. wanting them to double check (this was right after catching the owner flagging to close to the property line). She was quite snobby and made a point of telling me that she didn't understand why he was so upset about it because he was a master plumber and could easily install the backwash system himself. She totally did not understand that he was upset they never told him it was required and it appeared they were trying to get away with not putting it in... hoping they didn't get caught and then did.

We also had an issued with the pool builder last week. They told us in an email that in order to get final inspection they will put a magnetized alarm on the door and once we passed they would take it off. That sent a huge red flag. If city code/law requires this alarm then why are they taking it off? I never ever once after sending 3 emails (first trying to be nice and the final one blantantly asking if they were going to violate city code) did I get an answer. We are trying to get ahold of the city right now to see if this is required. I do have a friend in another state that is a building inspector and he said that lots of homeowners take them off because they are really loud and a pain. BUT that is up to us and not our builder to decide. If we need it for inspection they have no right to install and assume we don't want it and take it down.

 

[DVC Jen]

Update.. DH just checked our contract and we have to pay the final payment right before plaster is done. We talked and talked about this and we will try to NOT pay the 400.00 they are asking for. If push comes to shove we are going to pay it and when everything is done we will contact the BBB and file a complaint.. if that doesn't resolve the issue we will contact a lawyer and go after them in small claims.

We want this pool DONE. We want these people our of our day to day life. And DH is concerned that if we do not pay the additional 400.00 they will not finish the pool and this would drag on even longer.

 

[rascalmom]

Wow. What a nightmare! We've only dealt with the usual small household repair/improvement type contractors in the past, but we are currently in the process of building a new dental office for my husband's practice.

They poured concrete today - so far we have not had trouble with the contractor. We were delayed in starting groundwork because both the phone & gas company had lines that were not documented & not within their recorded easements. That was fun...we thought groundbreaking was going to be in June while we were at WDW, but they were delayed to last month.

I hope you get this resolved - sounds like the pool contractor does not deserve his current reputation. Good luck!

 

[lillygator]

How awful! I hope our pool isn't going to go like this...we signed our contract in June and are now waiting on the permits to actually start the digging!
I hope things get resolved!

 

[DVC Jen]

Update

The decking (concrete) crew is here right now.. bright and early Tuesday morning. I asked them if they knew to salt the deck instead of hand seed it and they did. Thank God for that.

The grip rail was delivered (our oldest daughter was born with hydrocephalus and still to this day ..and always will have balance problems. I insisted on a grip rail <hand rail> for her so she could easily get in and out of the pool. The designer tried to talk me out of it because she didn't think it would "look good and go with the flow of the pool" ) I am assuming but I may be wrong that they put the grip rail into the concrete as it is setting up.

The coping/stone work is still not done. They said they would do the plaster tomorrow or thursday depending on weather. I am not sure how they are going to finish the coping and stone work if the plaster is in.

We are supposed to give them the last check (by contract) when the plaster is done. The coping and stone work was supposed to be done a while ago and it isn't finished so I really don't feel right about giving them the last 5% of the money we owe them until that is done. Could be an interesting week.

 

[chrissyk]

If you pay them the last of what you owe, you officially give up ALL of your leverage. As it is, 5% really isn't much leverage at this point, but it's all you've got. Don't pay until it's finished to your satisfaction.

 

[DVC Jen]

Well the decking is finished and it looks great. The quality of the work has never been an issue. We are happy with everything they have actually done so far. Our issues have been on the horrendous planning, us catching a few issues with city code violations and total lack of communication (unless it is snotty or rude).

Delays don't even bother me.. as long as we are told about them, and not expecting work to be done and then have it not done and not told about the delay.

They were bound and determined to pick up their check today, but so far no one has shown up.