# Point Inflation and why it takes more points per stay at newer resorts

#### DVC Mike

##### DIS Veteran
Point Chart Inflation: Why more points per stay at newer resorts

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/PointChartInflation.png

First off, let me clarify what I am not referring to when I say "point inflation". I am not referring to Point Reallocations.

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/PointInflationNote_1.png​

I understand that costs rise, so the cost to construct a new DVC resort goes up over time, so I would expect the direct sales price of a new resort to cost more than the original sales price of an older resort (reference: History of DVC direct sales prices).

I can also understand why the maintenance fees (annual dues) rise year after year, as the cost of maintaining a resort rises (reference: History of annual dues).

But why do the points required to book a particular room size generally keep rising for each new resort built?

I'm not talking about a reallocation of an existing points chart for a resort to balance usage/demand, where the overall number of points at a resort remains the same. I'm talking about the newer resorts generally taking more points, so the total number of points at the newer resorts is generally greater than the older resorts (across an equivalent number of rooms).

As an example, let's assume I built 3 very tiny DVC resorts, each containing just 10 studios. The first resort had an average of 10 points per night - some nights more, other nights less, for a total of 36,500 points. The second resort had an average of 15 points a night, for a total of 54,750 points. The third resort had an average of 20 points per night, for a total of 73,000 points. That is what I mean by point inflation in this post.

You might notice I used the word "generally" when referring to this phenomenon. That's because it's not strictly true that each new resort costs more points than the prior one. However, I think the premise is generally true in most cases - particularly when looking at BLT and beyond.

Some may say that the newer resorts are in prime locations and should take more points ("location, location, location!"). But why wouldn't Disney just raise the sales price per point when selling the new resort?

Is it mostly to keep maintenance fees down? If you have more points per room, then you have more points to spread the cost of maintenance across.

In the past, DVC had increased the overall cost of a resort by merely raising the sales price per point. Recently, starting with BLT, DVC has also increased the number of points to book a stay. Is it a marketing ploy to hide the price increases of the newer resorts? Is it a way to make the cost per point of new resorts more competitive with the cost of older resorts on the resale market?

Let's take OKW out of the equation, as Disney learned a bunch with their first resort and started to adjust point charts (and room sizes) in later resorts. But after OKW, things started to settle in and we had a string of subsequent resorts built with similar points charts.

But then came BLT, VGC, Aulani, VGF and PVB. I think this new tier of resorts has point inflation when compared to the prior tier.

As new resorts get built with bigger point charts, it becomes more difficult for owners at the older resorts to get similar stays at the newer resorts, as their "buying power" has been reduced. Is another possible reason to encourage point add-ons by older members?

Take a look at the charts in posts #2 (Studio), #3 (1-BR), #4 (2-BR) and #5 (3-BG GV) and then respond with your thoughts and comments.

http://i235.************************************************************* DVC Mike - *******.com

#### DVC Mike

##### DIS Veteran
Here are the comparisons for Studios.

Points per night (Sunday-Thursday) for a Studio:

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/PointsStudioSunThu.png​

Points per night (Friday-Saturday) for a Studio:

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/PointsStudioFriSat.png​

Points per week for a Studio:

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/PointsStudioWeekly.png​

#### DVC Mike

##### DIS Veteran
Here are the comparisons for 1 Bedrooms.

Points per night (Sunday-Thursday) for a 1-BR:

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/Points1BRSunThu.png​

Points per night (Friday-Saturday) for a 1-BR:

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/Points1BRFriSat.png​

Points per week for a 1-BR:

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/Points1BRWeekly.png​

• #### DVC Mike

##### DIS Veteran
Here are the comparisons for 2 Bedrooms. And yes, given the size of the bungalows at PVB, they are included here as I consider them to be 2-bedroom units.

Points per night (Sunday-Thursday) for a 2-BR:

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/Points2BRSunThu.png​

Points per night (Friday-Saturday) for a 2-BR:

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/Points2BRFriSat.png​

Points per week for a 2-BR:

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/Points2BRWeekly.png​

#### DVC Mike

##### DIS Veteran
Here are the comparisons for 3 Bedroom Grand Villas.

Points per night (Sunday-Thursday) for a 3-BR GV:

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/Points3BRSunThu.png​

Points per night (Friday-Saturday) for a 3-BR GV:

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/Points3BRFriSat.png​

Points per week for a 3-BR GV:

http://i235.*************************************Resorts/PointComp/Points3BRWeekly.png​

#### bwbuddy5

##### First trips WDW MK 1972, Epcot 1982
Do you feel supply and demand factor in at all - does DVC do this so that they don't get slammed by people wanting to check out the new place?

#### jimmytammy

##### <font color=purple>Swivel, it's a hard habit to br
Hey Mike,
Thanks for all the comparisons across the board, great way to view and compare. Never gave it much thought as to why the newer resorts are more, other than what you mentioned, the costs to build being more. One thing I noticed, SSR being slightly less in pts than the string of BWV, VWL and BCV. Wonder why that is?

#### lovin'fl

##### DIS Veteran
Kind of is supply and demand. The smaller resorts take more points since there are less rooms to book. Other factors are newness and they are the premier resorts at WDW (with location being a big factor). Seeing the charts, though, just reinforces my decision not to try VGF or PBV anytime soon (maybe sometime we'll do 1 night at each just to try but I am not rushing to do that).

#### lovin'fl

##### DIS Veteran
Hey Mike,
Thanks for all the comparisons across the board, great way to view and compare. Never gave it much thought as to why the newer resorts are more, other than what you mentioned, the costs to build being more. One thing I noticed, SSR being slightly less in pts than the string of BWV, VWL and BCV. Wonder why that is?
Huge resort! And not prime location.

#### carissa1970

##### DIS Veteran
It is the Poly points that have me totally confused. I do not understand why they built only studios and 2 bdrms, and why they made it so not many can afford the 2 bdrms even with banking and borrowing. It is almost as if they don't want people to stay long.

#### chalee94

##### DIS Veteran
i posted this over on the other thread but i'll move it here:

to be fair, hawaii and california are expensive and it should naturally cost more to stay on the monorail. AKV has a number of reasonably priced standard view rooms. OKW and BWV are most notable for being good values, with SSR the stinker in being slightly more expensive per night than it should be (it should only cost slightly more than OKW - and after the most recent re-allocation, it's not as bad as it used to be).

i thought it was crazy back when SSR was priced comparably to BCV instead of being more in line with OKW (as both are considered by some to by the DVC "moderates" - with SSR having slightly more upscale pretentions).

at this point, VWL should probably be a little bit cheaper overall, as demand apparently falls off a cliff outside of nov-dec now that we have 3 other DVCs near MK...

#### CarolMN

##### DVC Co-Moderator
Moderator
....(snip)............But why do the points required to book a particular room size generally keep rising for each new resort built? ...........................................
IMO, it's just another way for DVD to increase their profits. Higher points per room, mean more points can be sold.

It's a relatively "hidden" way to increase prices - my guess is that most direct buyers do not compare /analyze points per room differences between resorts. They just look to see if they can afford the upfront cost and annual dues.

##### Lost In The Magic
It's greed, pure and simple in my opinion. They'll do it until the number of takers diminish and then they'll have a sale. They have a huge cash cow with DVC and they're going to milk it for as much as they can get out of it.

##### Lost In The Magic
It is the Poly points that have me totally confused. I do not understand why they built only studios and 2 bdrms, and why they made it so not many can afford the 2 bdrms even with banking and borrowing. It is almost as if they don't want people to stay long.
They built studios and bungalows. The bungalows are even more expensive than a grand villa at other DVC resorts. We were able to stay 4 nights recently in a bungalow and it's great, but it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity unless I hit the lottery. I had to use banked, current and borrowed from both of my home resort contracts to do it.

#### disneynutz

##### DIS Veteran
Is it possible that Disney doesn't intend to declare all of the PVB units but to keep some for cash guests?

The PVB bungalows may be priced so high to make them available to cash guests at 60 days.

Bill

#### Goofy DVC

##### OKW member since 93
This topic reminds me of a conversation I had with a guide at OKW at the pool when the BWV were under construction, so maybe 1994? We went to look at the model they had. The guide asked if we're interested in doing an add on and I said no. He asked why, and I shared that the point inflation for rooms, except for standard, in conjunction with the price increase, was too high. He then shared his opinion and predictions for DVC. This is the little that I remember:
1. Disney made a big mistake with OKW by making the units so big and few points to stay.
2. Disney wasn't sure if the DVC concept would ever take off and be successful. That's why the free passes were offered.
3. Disney now knows the real potential of DVC,and as a result, he predicted smaller accommodations, more points needed for each room type, many more DVC resorts to come, and rising prices.

His opinion and predictions, although not that daring, were pretty accurate.

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#### hakepb

##### DIS Veteran
If a new resort used the same # of points, then existing owners do not need to buy additional points to stay in new resorts.

#### coastalhh

##### Mouseketeer
They built studios and bungalows. The bungalows are even more expensive than a grand villa at other DVC resorts. We were able to stay 4 nights recently in a bungalow and it's great, but it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity unless I hit the lottery. I had to use banked, current and borrowed from both of my home resort contracts to do it.
The bungalows are still a 2 bedroom and actually have one less bed than all and less sq ft than many 2 bedrooms

#### Granny

##### Yeah, I'm a guy
IMO, it's just another way for DVD to increase their profits. Higher points per room, mean more points can be sold.

It's a relatively "hidden" way to increase prices - my guess is that most direct buyers do not compare /analyze points per room differences between resorts. They just look to see if they can afford the upfront cost and annual dues.
I think this is exactly what Disney is doing. Basically, a double price increase that is disguised for unknowledgeable potential buyers (which represent the majority of new members).

It's greed, pure and simple in my opinion. They'll do it until the number of takers diminish and then they'll have a sale. They have a huge cash cow with DVC and they're going to milk it for as much as they can get out of it.
I agree, though you make greed sound bad. I'm not Gordon Gekko, but I'm not surprised that Disney is trying to maximize the return on their investment to see what the market will bear. Especially with the two latest monorail resorts.

If a new resort used the same # of points, then existing owners do not need to buy additional points to stay in new resorts.
Hadn't thought of this, but it definitely could be a fallout of the new point structures. Hopefully most people who already own are happy with their home resort and bought where they were happy to stay. If so, then they are like me and don't really care what the point structure for new resorts looks like....except for the VWL expansion which will bring the new price per point and assuming a really high point schedule for the new villas. And probably a new contract end date. This is the only time we've seen this so it may be a prototype for other resorts if Disney likes what they see for new sales there.

#### DougEMG

##### DIS Veteran
While I personally hate that the newer resorts have higher nightly point requirements, I do think that it makes sense what Disney has done with the point charts. Looking at the weekly studio charts in order of increasing point requirements we basically go OKW, SSR, AKV, VWL, BWV, BCV, BLT, POLY and VGF. I'm pretty sure that is also the sequence at the hotels charge in as well. You basically can break the resorts down by (1) not being able to walk to a park, (2) next to EPCOT/DHS or boat ride to MK and then (3) being on the monorail. For the majority of people being on the monorail loop is the most desirable location, so BLT, POLY and VGF are going to have the highest point requirements.

A point is a point regardless of what resort it comes from, so it makes sense that it takes twice as many points to stay at VFG as it does to stay at OKW.