Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[rteetz]

It's a mute point because a boat isn't happening, but elevation is a non-issue. Digging / building a canal deeper / higher would be far cheaper and easier than a whole new transportation system with higher maintenance and labor expenses. It was the added flexibility, increased capacity, and overall upside of the gondola system that won out. It clearly wasn't the non-existent logistical issues of a boat or the cost.

The Gondola is cheaper upfront from what I understand and of course takes less work and space.

 

[Q-man]

I WAS ON VACATION AND I SAW THIS AND I WAS LIKE OMG!!! I CAN'T WAIT TO GET BACK TO WORK!!

Please excuse me, while I go catch up on this.

However, we were all correct,

1. They would have to connect this SOMEHOW
2. It wouldn't be via water.

3. We deduced the IG was the most logical delivery point.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm starting to wonder if you actually read any of my post. Seriously, it's not abandoning anything, this is exactly what I've been preaching for almost 60 pages, but I got blasted for it. The tiered resort categories of deluxe, moderate, and value aren't real. They are nothing more than a marketing gimmick. Disney sets the prices for it's hotels based off of their location and amenities offered and to an extent, what the market will bear. It's nothing new and nothing earth shattering. If you go back and read I've been saying all along, CBR is the most underutilized and prime location on the whole WDW property with its proximity to DHS and Epcot (you should try google earth). I'm perplexed as to why you think they are dredging up all these old plans but they couldn't possibly just upgrading CBR to the deluxe resort it should be in the first place. You were the one who thought they should give AoA access to the parks if they gave CBR access, why is this surprising you?

If anything, I underestimated the scope of the plans. I was stuck on the boat because it was a cheaper and easier method to connect the deluxe CBR to the parks. I was too focused on Epcot and forgot the value of quick easy access to DHS as well. A boat would have connected them but it wouldn't have been as efficient. I give them credit for taking the more expensive and ambitious plan of creating an entirely new transportation system with more upside / potential.

I'm starting to wonder if you are understanding how the hotels were priced...

They were priced on amenity, not location...

A location can be an amenity...but not necessarily. Caribbean was built to be priced less Than the monorail hotels because not only access, but food, pool, and recreation offerings were reduced or at a minimum, shared with many more rooms.

I've worked this...resorts...I don't know how to explain this any more clearly...it's not just location because you're not buying a home in Minneapolis...

I know...it's tougher when rules aren't always the same.

What I am saying...after something other than the silly canal idea has actually come into focus a little...is they are going to increase all the prices if this thing gets built. Not because you were "underpaying" before...because they don't want anyone spending less than $400 for a room because that speaks as to what they will pay otherwise...this isn't rocket science. It's Stockholm syndrome.

It's not "worth it" based on location...this isn't zillow.

 

[Q-man]

You kinda invalidate your own argument when you say it's gonna be a deluxe tower...

Have you been watching What they have built recently? It's 100% about shaving costs...not building "new deluxe"

Beach club and boardwalk were built a hell of a lot nicer than anything built by DVC recently...

Actually since animal kingdom lodge...

Hmmm. Wonder why?

I'm not implying that it's about regime change. I'm 100% saying it's about regime change.

Like it or not - they've been building some cheap condos these days. Almost no amenities.

AoA style family suites would go over very well.

 

[Q-man]

Oops. Wrong property.

 

[Sweettears]

See this is where I've been wading too far into something I don't fully understand (I'm far from an architect/engineer). But my point with that first part has just been they could easily be buildings for a completely different reason as far as I have seen. It makes a lot of sense (especially with the shapes of the buildings) that they would be for a form of transport, but the permits don't completely verify that. I just wanted to make sure I was interpreting what we were seeing correctly.

Just guessing here. The fact that the permits were filed together would indicate some common purpose.

 

[Sweettears]

View attachment 220513

The red is where the new DVC building is being built, right?

Just seems that given the location of the load/unload, it's not really a DVC exclusive type thing.

Are they sectioning off that whole side of CBR for a DVC resort, where the red circle is? Just looks, as it is now, with just the tower, that CBR has better access to the new system than the DVC tower would.

What would prevent there being a loading station inside the CBR tower?

 

[Irish_Mike]

What would prevent there being a loading station inside the CBR tower?

If the tower is designed right, nothing would prevent it.

I imagine it would have to be similar to the Contemporary though (A-frame), and that seems like something Disney won't want to do again.

 

[Sweettears]

If the tower is designed right, nothing would prevent it.

I imagine it would have to be similar to the Contemporary though (A-frame), and that seems like something Disney won't want to do again.

It could be a loading bay off the side of the building similar to monorail stops at Poly and GF.

 

[Irish_Mike]

It could be a loading bay off the side of the building similar to monorail stops at Poly and GF.

Very true.

I suppose we won't know until we get some plans for the tower.

 

[nkosiek]

No mention of a tower at CBR. Reimagining with additions to the marketplace, center town, and new waterfront dining and retail.

Which means it's definitely DVC. They are mum as can be about DVC projects until absolutely necessary. Much more so than other things. They also can't put out DVC at Caribbean without the new stuff at WL going on sale simply because some would wait (regardless of what our friend from NJ believes) and they don't want to have too many places to sell at once. They will announce the DVC thing once ground has been broken and structures have started going into place, not beforehand.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Which means it's definitely DVC. They are mum as can be about DVC projects until absolutely necessary. Much more so than other things. They also can't put out DVC at Caribbean without the new stuff at WL going on sale simply because some would wait (regardless of what our friend from NJ believes) and they don't want to have too many places to sell at once. They will announce the DVC thing once ground has been broken and structures have started going into place, not beforehand.

They can't announce because the sales are tied to the rate of construction and availability schedule. You can't sell a "promised" timeshare in Florida...

But beyond that it wouldn't make sense to as you point out. They would have 3 in primary sales and that is not a wise strategy.

I'm sure some would wait for this...as some would be pushed toward wilderness or poly if they think that the next 2-3 are gonna be at moderates...

But here's the kicker: if you buy a current DVC you still save money on the long term costs at the sale price. If you buy at a Caribbean add on as currently situated - you actually pay more.

So there's some maneuvering to be done here, no?

 

[rteetz]

Which means it's definitely DVC. They are mum as can be about DVC projects until absolutely necessary. Much more so than other things. They also can't put out DVC at Caribbean without the new stuff at WL going on sale simply because some would wait (regardless of what our friend from NJ believes) and they don't want to have too many places to sell at once. They will announce the DVC thing once ground has been broken and structures have started going into place, not beforehand.

Yep, they didn't announce WL, BLT, or GF DVC until they were well under construction.

 

[hakepb]

Most (recent?) DVC's have been announced after construction was well underway.
But Grand Floridian was announced in 2011 before opening in 2013
http://dvcnews.com/index.php/resort...s-at-disneys-grand-floridian-resort-announced

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Most (recent?) DVC's have been announced after construction was well underway.
But Grand Floridian was announced in 2011 before opening in 2013
http://dvcnews.com/index.php/resort...s-at-disneys-grand-floridian-resort-announced

There are presales...but something has to be moving if I recall...so they could announce in 2011...begin selling later that year (which in that case would have driven interest prior to sales) and then construct over 15 months or so while sales occurred...which gets you 2013. Hypothetically

 

[nkosiek]

They can't announce because the sales are tied to the rate of construction and availability schedule. You can't sell a "promised" timeshare in Florida...

But beyond that it wouldn't make sense to as you point out. They would have 3 in primary sales and that is not a wise strategy.

I'm sure some would wait for this...as some would be pushed toward wilderness or poly if they think that the next 2-3 are gonna be at moderates...

But here's the kicker: if you buy a current DVC you still save money on the long term costs at the sale price. If you buy at a Caribbean add on as currently situated - you actually pay more.

So there's some maneuvering to be done here, no?

Hey, I don't care if it's DVC or not in terms of being a buyer. I'm an urban school teacher near you. My DVC is paid for and barring me getting the raise we haven't had in 5 years PLUS coming into some other funds, I won't be buying anywhere. Also since I prefer to go to Disney than the Shore, that's where my vacay money is going...for now. If this is the beginning of trips costing $10k, then I'm out.

I've done some research after your prods into what the property looks like and I see a nice theme but agree that it's missing a lot of stuff that would make it deluxe. If they add that both here and Coronado, clearly they are truly going for the total luxury brand, a la Apple. That said, plenty of people who can't afford Apple buy their products. I wonder if this and all the recent announcements aren't actually Disney admitting they don't want lots of returners. They can probably get enough 3-5 day people they don't want/need the 7-10 day stays anymore. If they know people will cut down their trips from 7 to 5 but still come, why not do it? If they think they can keep people coming down, even if for smaller amounts of time, they'll do it, making up for the lost days with the higher prices. I agree this is long term stupidity but I wonder if Disney hasn't insulated themselves by creating a brand like apple that people see as worth-it...even if like many Apple products, it's not. You and I see things similarly for the most part. Longterm they are gonna create problems, I'm just not sure if it's going to crash as much as you think it will.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Hey, I don't care if it's DVC or not in terms of being a buyer. I'm an urban school teacher near you. My DVC is paid for and barring me getting the raise we haven't had in 5 years PLUS coming into some other funds, I won't be buying anywhere. Also since I prefer to go to Disney than the Shore, that's where my vacay money is going...for now. If this is the beginning of trips costing $10k, then I'm out.

I've done some research after your prods into what the property looks like and I see a nice theme but agree that it's missing a lot of stuff that would make it deluxe. If they add that both here and Coronado, clearly they are truly going for the total luxury brand, a la Apple. That said, plenty of people who can't afford Apple buy their products. I wonder if this and all the recent announcements aren't actually Disney admitting they don't want lots of returners. They can probably get enough 3-5 day people they don't want/need the 7-10 day stays anymore. If they know people will cut down their trips from 7 to 5 but still come, why not do it? If they think they can keep people coming down, even if for smaller amounts of time, they'll do it, making up for the lost days with the higher prices. I agree this is long term stupidity but I wonder if Disney hasn't insulated themselves by creating a brand like apple that people see as worth-it...even if like many Apple products, it's not. You and I see things similarly for the most part. Longterm they are gonna create problems, I'm just not sure if it's going to crash as much as you think it will.

Seaside, NJ is so ghetto fabulous that I'm offended by you're comments...

Ok...not at all...

But the one problem is the model of apple...apple's star is falling...they have been losing grounds to competitors in respects to innovation and market share for several years now. Stale and higher prices always cause collapse.

 

[beer dave]

It's a mute point because a boat isn't happening, but elevation is a non-issue. Digging / building a canal deeper / higher would be far cheaper and easier than a whole new transportation system with higher maintenance and labor expenses. It was the added flexibility, increased capacity, and overall upside of the gondola system that won out. It clearly wasn't the non-existent logistical issues of a boat or the cost.

Since elevation is a non issue with you when it comes to liquid, I'm glad you are not my bar tender.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Since elevation is a non issue with you when it comes to liquid, I'm glad you are not my bar tender.

Engineer and strategic accounting is more of a forte

 

[OKW Lover]

Yep, they didn't announce WL, BLT, or GF DVC until they were well under construction.

Florida time share laws are very restrictive about what can be said by a developer. DVD can't "promise" anything at this point.