Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[lockedoutlogic]

14 pts a night to look at Aruba or 15 for Boardwalk view, beach club or wilderness lodge?

I wouldn't pay that if it was ACTUALLY Aruba

 

[Madonna3]

Just a guess, but I think it's something like South Florida Water managment District. The plans are showing water flow through the basins.

Looks thoroughly unimpressive to me. I don't see the splash that would make as a DVC of any level.

Ok good cause I was thinking the same.

 

[sachilles]

Water looks like the easy button, but environmentally is where the issues are.

I just don't see it as an efficient mode of transport.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

What's the mean?

South Florida water management district...that's a federal office that governs all construction that can be linked to the Everglades system...

The army Corps screwed up the Everglades - which is an ecologically vital system - in the post war era building the infrastructure to create the modern paradise we know and love as "Florida"...they've tried to figure out how to fix it ever since.

That agency published all their applications online...which makes them a "insider that KNOWS people"

...like the Spirit

 

[sachilles]

I think any transportation project that benefits the CBR location would likely be part of a larger system to benefit more properties.

Lets say 100 million for a canal to give an arguing point.

Would it not be cheaper to run a dedicated bus stop to the boardwalk bus stop, or even the front gate. A dedicated on demand shuttle. How long before you see the return on that canal investment.....even if the project could afford it.

 

[Madonna3]

I am sorry !!!!

Nah, don't be. If it's true, it's true, but I really don't think I am off mark as some think.

 

[Madonna3]

Some Of us also work in environmental engineering

...just because I worked for Disney, doesn't mean I meant to go "career"

I am so sorry. I didn't mean to leave you out as one of the qualified experts. My point remains the same. We have one person going it's "cheap and easy" and the experts going "nu-uh"

 

[rteetz]

More food for thought from a source.

An expansion is also planned at CSR, those permits are not as specific though. The thought it we might see both CBR and CSR get more rooms but only one gets DVC and the other gets more rooms to offset the losses of the other.

 

[Madonna3]

More food for thought from a source.

An expansion is also planned at CSR, those permits are not as specific though. The thought it we might see both CBR and CSR get more rooms but only one gets DVC and the other gets more rooms to offset the losses of the other.

A CSR expansion doesn't surprise me, but I thought it was related to the convention and nothing to do with room loss at CBR. The rooms aren't being booked at CBR so are they really lost?

 

[rteetz]

A CSR expansion doesn't surprise me, but I thought it was related to the convention and nothing to do with room loss at CBR. The rooms aren't being booked at CBR so are they really lost?

How do you know they aren't being booked though? Moderates have always been popular which is why they have such high room counts.

 

[LaidBackDad]

Well...you obviously don't work in construction, Pete...

When they build a project, say for $500 mil...do you think it's $100 in site prep and $400 on buildings, theming, and art?

...more like the opposite. Site work doesn't even flinch/get started until we're talking 9 figures...realistically.

This is where the problem is. It doesn't help to grossly inflate the real figures. Pete's example numbers are actually more in line and are very generous at that. Trying to suggest a 1000 ft. canal and a couple of bridges would cost 9 figures is ludicrous at best. Simply not in the realm of reality. Connecting CBR is really a very small project in terms of WDW projects and is a 7 figure or low 8 figure tops.

... not to mention, you can't argue in one post (above) that most of the budget goes for site prep, environmental studies, etc... then argue most of a budget is for art and theming in another post (below).

I think you might be out of your zone here...have to know the relative costs.

Where do you think those budgets for avatar, new fantasyland, disney springs came from?

Well...avatar proves my point...it's over budget by a reportedly huge amount because my buddy joe thinks 3/4 IS FOR ART...that's how you get a 200% budget. Just like ak 1.0

 

[sachilles]

looking at the water district plan posted above, it does look like an outline of a building in the free area across from South Trinidad. Am I reading that plan wrong? The resolution of the plan makes it hard to tell.

 

[Madonna3]

How do you know they aren't being booked though? Moderates have always been popular which is why they have such high room counts.

Availability for one. Second, would you convert a resort that's near 100% occupancy all the time? The current strategy is to absorb the glutton of rooms in the deluxe category by turning them into DVC. What would make us think this isn't plagued with the same issue? I think we all agree that while the moderate category is popular, CBR is not the winner in that category.

 

[rteetz]

Availability for one. Second, would you convert a resort that's near 100% occupancy all the time? The current strategy is to absorb the glutton of rooms in the deluxe category by turning them into DVC. What would make us think this isn't plagued with the same issue? I think we all agree that while the moderate category is popular, CBR is not the winner in that category.

I think that's why they would add more capacity to one of the moderates to take the blow of loss of rooms for DVC at the other.

 

[Mr. Drauer]

South Florida water management district...that's a federal office that governs all construction that can be linked to the Everglades system...

The army Corps screwed up the Everglades - which is an ecologically vital system - in the post war era building the infrastructure to create the modern paradise we know and love as "Florida"...they've tried to figure out how to fix it ever since.

That agency published all their applications online...which makes them a "insider that KNOWS people"

...like the Spirit

Yes - South FLorida Water Management District, though they are a state agency (there are 5 divided among the major drainage basins of Florida) mandated to review and approve stormwater and wetlands as related to development. They do have south central Florida on down into the Everglades as their jurisdiction. The plan set is too large to post the entire thing, but anyone who wants to view them can pull them up on the website. Disney's master permit number is 48-00714, which you can search for on their permitting site at http://my.sfwmd.gov/ePermitting/PopulateLOVs.do?flag=1. The plans will only show details related to the footprint of development, stormwater management systems, and wetland impacts. Details for buildings will be on building plans filed with Orange County (or Osceola County if talking about WWoS or All Star Resorts) and are not necessary for the SFWMD permits, though sometimes details are inlcuded in the associated information submitted for the permits.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I think any transportation project that benefits the CBR location would likely be part of a larger system to benefit more properties.

Lets say 100 million for a canal to give an arguing point.

Would it not be cheaper to run a dedicated bus stop to the boardwalk bus stop, or even the front gate. A dedicated on demand shuttle. How long before you see the return on that canal investment.....even if the project could afford it.

I am in line with this thinking. If it is just for this one resort, I can't see them building an entirely new transporation system .... now if that system would also connect to AoA and a brand new DVC resort built inbetween CBR and AoA, then yeah, I can see the cost justification

Other wise, just give the DVC part a dedicated bus to go along with the view in the tower and deluxe-like ammenaties

 

[Madonna3]

I think that's why they would add more capacity to one of the moderates to take the blow of loss of rooms for DVC at the other.

I guess time will tell.

 

[Madonna3]

Yes - South FLorida Water Management District, though they are a state agency (there are 5 divided among the major drainage basins of Florida) mandated to review and approve stormwater and wetlands as related to development. They do have south central Florida on down into the Everglades as their jurisdiction. The plan set is too large to post the entire thing, but anyone who wants to view them can pull them up on the website. Disney's master permit number is 48-00714, which you can search for on their permitting site at http://my.sfwmd.gov/ePermitting/PopulateLOVs.do?flag=1. The plans will only show details related to the footprint of development, stormwater management systems, and wetland impacts. Details for buildings will be on building plans filed with Orange County (or Osceola County if talking about WWoS or All Star Resorts) and are not necessary for the SFWMD permits, though sometimes details are inlcuded in the associated information submitted for the permits.

So can you interpret this plan? is there anything that indicates a new waterway is in the works as opposed to just relocating storm water drainage?

 

[Madonna3]

I am in line with this thinking. If it is just for this one resort, I can't see them building an entirely new transporation system .... now if that system would also connect to AoA and a brand new DVC resort built inbetween CBR and AoA, then yeah, I can see the cost justification

Other wise, just give the DVC part a dedicated bus to go along with the view in the tower and deluxe-like ammenaties

But if we follow this thinking, what about Pop? There's a brige that connects PoP and AoA. Couldn't PoP come on over and catch the boat to Epcot/DHS? If we allow direct access from AOA and PoP then do we lose them as value resorts? Do they reclassify them as moderates? Deluxe? I think linking AOA creates another issue.

 

[sachilles]

One thing about joined water ways that makes sense to me that I read on the wdwmagic thread......the epcot water way is a different level than the canal around epcot. While it could be over come, it makes it more of a challenge.
If you look at the international gateway on any map, so see the canal that surrounds epcot, actually goes under the water bridge into epcot that the friendship boats go on.
So basically, you can't just merge the epcot lake with that small canal. You'd have to have the boats cross over that canal. The fireworks proximity is maybe a bit of red herring. Perhaps a contributing cause, but maybe not insurmountable.

Still possible, but not as easy as just digging a trench from Germany to CBR.
Similar issue presents itself if you wanted to dig a canal parallel to Buena Vista.