Perspective on AP and crowds at DLR/DCA

[DirkLogan]

I live 142 miles from Disneyland. I have been there over 50 times in the last 3 1/2 years. My DD7 loves it, it is a fun day for us. Really with the price of the socal AP it is hard to beat for the money.

The first trip we made to DLR when my DD was 3 was horrible. I let my sister do the planning, I had been a few times and knew where stuff was located but was by no means an expert of Disneyland. We did all of the classic stuff, showed up about 11 am, went straight for Fantasyland and it was crowded. Well we rode a few things and got hungry. Of course it was noon and the eateries were crowded. So it went like this pretty much the entire trip. It wasn't great. I enjoyed seeing DLR, seeing my daughter get excited about seeing princesses and such, but it wasn't something that I would want to do on a regular basis.

My Mom noticed somewhere that Premium AP's were $315 and mentioned it to us. I think the two day hoppers were about $100 at the time (not 100% on that though) so it seemed like a good value. We only needed to go a handful of times to make worthwhile so we got them.

Well, we started going and I started researching stuff and figuring out how to get the most out of the trips to DLR. Now we get in and out without getting hit by much of a crowd. We don't wait long for any ride (few exceptions, like Nemo or TSMM). We eat cheap (corn dog shack-R.I.P. or Redd Rockets), bring water and snacks in to save money. I feel like we pretty much have it down. I love going, it is a great experience all the way around. The family bonds, spends good time together, everything is happy and positive there, I just love it.

Yesterday I took my niece who is 3 to the park for the first time. She loves the princesses of course. We put her in Belle's red Christmas dress, bought her a tiara and went for it. The crowds were a little heavy yesterday but not horrible. We changed our pattern to suit my niece though. We found ourselves in the crowds for part of the day. It was still fun, but I can see how the regular person wouldn't enjoy it as much as I do on my normal trip. Now that I have been on the Socal AP experience side and sort of re-experienced the normal visitor side of things, I understand their frustration with the crowd levels. When something has too long of a line, I skip it until another time when it is more reasonable. I know I will be back soon. If I just dropped a fortune on a 3 day trip to DLR and won't be back soon I am going to wait in that 45+ minute line over and over again. Yuck! I rarely wait more than 10 minutes. TSMM is the only regular exception for us and it is usually 30 minutes. Between fast passes and just knowing when to hit this or that to minimize wait times (I do own RideMax and use it as a guide) we don't wait much.

I don't know all of the numbers that Disney knows about their profit, demographics, crowd levels and such but they have a tough choice in front of them. Do you keep courting the local Socal AP customer who come in droves, don't spend a ton of money per trip but come all of the time. Or do you court the occasional customer who drops a ton of cash for a week long trip. I am sure that they hope that there is room for both, but I see the dilemma.

 

[nonzerosum]

I agree that Disney has an interesting dilemma on their hand. We live very far away, in another country, in fact and getting to Disney (usually WDW) takes multiple airline connections. We generally spare no expense....stay at the deluxe resorts, eat table service meals and character meals, buy a boatload of souvies, and do all of the extras (BBB, pirate and princess party etc..). We only go once every 12-14 months, but spend like crazy while there. What's a Disney exec to do???

 

[kailuagirl]

I know without a doubt if we lived anywhere remotely near DLR we would have AP's, we'd be there all the time. And, I think there should be AP's, why should people who live so close have to pay full price everytime they go? That'd be crazy and sad. AP's are a great thing. Just gotta figure out how to keep the crowd level's enjoyable for all.

 

[Disney Dreams]

...Just gotta figure out how to keep the crowd level's enjoyable for all.

But from a business perspective, do they? People are coming. Everyday. As long as the crowd levels are safe, I would imagine, Disney execs would love to see the Parks at capacity every single day.

 

[HydroGuy]

I agree that Disney has an interesting dilemma on their hand. We live very far away, in another country, in fact and getting to Disney (usually WDW) takes multiple airline connections. We generally spare no expense....stay at the deluxe resorts, eat table service meals and character meals, buy a boatload of souvies, and do all of the extras (BBB, pirate and princess party etc..). We only go once every 12-14 months, but spend like crazy while there. What's a Disney exec to do???

Well the AP issue is not an issue for WDW. It is a DLR issue.

That you come from far away and spend a lot of money on Disney is all fine. Do you stay at DLR hotels when at DLR? And even so, you are spending on a DLR trip how often? AP holders who come monthly or even weekly are spending less each time but more in aggregate.

In any case, there are perfectly fine times for you to visit DLR where the experience will be great. The times when DLR is now busy are times when it was not in the past. October and June are two that come to mind. That is not a bad thing for Disney.

With all that said, the OP has raised some good points that I am sure the DLR decision makers are thinking about daily.

 

[MsTiauna27]

The lines can be ridiculously long but if that is your main issue then do not visit DLR during the peak seasons. Off peak seasons are great because your longest wait will be at most 30 minutes and you will still find characters out and about. You wont see extra shows like Fantasmic, Princess Tiana Jubilee, and so on. I dont think the Disney Execs are really worried about the park being packed to capacity and long lines. I am sure to them that means $$$$ signs.

 

[aussiegirls]

I don't know all of the numbers that Disney knows about their profit, demographics, crowd levels and such but they have a tough choice in front of them. Do you keep courting the local Socal AP customer who come in droves, don't spend a ton of money per trip but come all of the time. Or do you court the occasional customer who drops a ton of cash for a week long trip. I am sure that they hope that there is room for both, but I see the dilemma.

See, in my opinion, that there is exactly the problem. There are so many local AP's there on a regular basis that it somewhat keeps the "tourists" away. Hypothetically, if AP's did not exist there would be less crowding and tourists would be more inclined to come more often and spend more time there. In that scenario Disney could then potentially not need so many CM's there because even though everything would be up and running it would not be running at capacity constantly.

I think lately there have been a few posts on here about people (tourists) that won't go back (or won't return for a very long time) due to crowd issues. These are mostly people that have gone quite a way out of their way to get there and come laden with money to burn, that now don't want to come back.

If the AP's were not there these people would have had an experience that they can look back and and say that they want to do again. And would start planning to go back again. So even though DL might have less people there on a day to day basis the people that would end up going are the ones that they would want to have there - the ones that want to spend multiple hundreds of dollars inside the gates every single day. Then these people will go home and tell everyone what a wonderful time they had, not how much it sucked because they couldn't move or get on what they wanted to. Remember, word of mouth is the most effective form of advertising.

xxx

 

[heatherleigh]

My friend and her family just went a couple weekends ago, and she said it was a nightmare. They go every other yr or so and they get a special handicapped pass for her son, so they don't have to wait in line for long. She said it didn't matter on this last trip because it was so over-crowded. They cut their trip down by a day in the end.

 

[MsTiauna27]

It does not matter which Disney resort you go to there will always be tons of people. Instead of complaining about Annual Passes which will not go away because Disney is promoting this big time then change the times you choose to visit the park. Disney will not get rid of the AP program because it is making them lots of money. Its only became super packed because Disney now has a payment plan on the AP's. WDW is now doing it and soon that place will have alot of locals there as well.

 

[DisneyMomma81]

Its only became super packed because Disney now has a payment plan on the AP's. WDW is now doing it and soon that place will have alot of locals there as well.

Not quite ~ lots more people live in S CA not nearly as many people live in Central FL.

 

[heatherleigh]

I don't think the OP is complaining, just giving his perspective and musing over effects of it. It's a legitimate concern that many people have. I have a friend who lives close to WDW, and she gives me very different reports on crowds and so forth, than what I hear on this board regarding DL.

 

[MG3G]

OP-

I think you hit the nail on the head right here for me. I understand that AP's are here to stay. I think that is a good thing for Disney BUT personally as a tourist who dropped $5000 for a week we won't be making plans to head back there again anytime soon. I am sure eventually one of two things will happen 1- either Disney will make some changes to the parks so that everyone can have fun AP holder or not by getting rid of the "off season" and by increasing hours at DCA and capacity in the parks OR 2- DLR will become a place where AP holders become the bulk of the people who visit. I know that some AP people think we are "attacking" Disney when we talk about these things but I think it would be better for both the APs and the tourists if they find a way to make some changes - because really AP or not why would you possibly want to be somewhere that is so packed you can't move when you could be somewhere where you are having good ol' Disney fun?

 

[Disney Dreams]

Hypothetically, if AP's did not exist there would be less crowding and tourists would be more inclined to come more often and spend more time there. In that scenario Disney could then potentially not need so many CM's there because even though everything would be up and running it would not be running at capacity constantly.

And if the APs did not exist, do you realize just how expensive the tickets would be?

And DL does not have everything running at capacity constantly. They have it running based on guest expectancy. This is why sometimes there is a 30 minute wait at Autopia and not all tracks are open. While, from a guest perspective, a zero minute wait time is ideal, from a business perspective this indicates over-staffing.

So even though DL might have less people there on a day to day basis the people that would end up going are the ones that they would want to have there - the ones that want to spend multiple hundreds of dollars inside the gates every single day....

But this is exactly what they DO have. People come every day. And they spend and spend and spend. Many are from out of town. Many are from nearby. They all spend money inside the gates... whether it's all in one week or cumulatively over many, many visits throughout the year.

...why would you possibly want to be somewhere that is so packed you can't move when you could be somewhere where you are having good ol' Disney fun?

Ah, but THAT'S the key. Where else can you find "good ol' Disney fun"? Only at Disney parks. And that's what makes it so unique. There are other vacations, other theme parks, but there are only 5 parks with good ol' Disney fun.

 

[DirkLogan]

I love that there is an Annual Pass program. I wouldn't have spent countless hours with my daughter in the "Happiest place on earth" if it had not been for the AP program. I would probably go once, maybe twice a year depending on promotions and such.

I just wanted to comment on the two perspectives since I sort of experienced the other side this weekend.

Most people I know think I am crazy to go to DLR so often and I think it is because they think about the drudgery of hitting all of the crowds and linesand the expense. The way we experience the park is completely different because we go mostly during the off season and we definitely do our best to dodge the crowds and we do it for very little per visit because of the AP's. And actually, I enjoy the crowds, just not the lines.

 

[HydroGuy]

My friend and her family just went a couple weekends ago, and she said it was a nightmare. They go every other yr or so and they get a special handicapped pass for her son, so they don't have to wait in line for long. She said it didn't matter on this last trip because it was so over-crowded. They cut their trip down by a day in the end.

Well if it was a weekend it was likely not due to AP holders as much as regular Spring Break crowds. And Spring Breakers have been hitting DLR every year for a long time. Also, even with the handicapped child did they do smart things like get to the gates early and take afternoon breaks, etc.? I dunno, maybe she did.

Some people visit DLR and make all the classic mistakes and have a crowded and not very fun time. But that is sort of like heading out onto LA freeways at 5PM on a Friday and then being surprised there is a traffic jam. And then further saying "never again" to LA freeways because of the traffic at the time they chose to drive. Yes, I agree it was crowded and miserable, but I am not at all surprised based on the 5PM departure.

I personally put very little stock in reports of super crowds and resulting bad experiences at DLR unless I know the report comes from someone who knows how to tour the parks.

 

[HydroGuy]

OP-

I think you hit the nail on the head right here for me. I understand that AP's are here to stay. I think that is a good thing for Disney BUT personally as a tourist who dropped $5000 for a week we won't be making plans to head back there again anytime soon. I am sure eventually one of two things will happen 1- either Disney will make some changes to the parks so that everyone can have fun AP holder or not by getting rid of the "off season" and by increasing hours at DCA and capacity in the parks OR 2- DLR will become a place where AP holders become the bulk of the people who visit. I know that some AP people think we are "attacking" Disney when we talk about these things but I think it would be better for both the APs and the tourists if they find a way to make some changes - because really AP or not why would you possibly want to be somewhere that is so packed you can't move when you could be somewhere where you are having good ol' Disney fun?

Clearly DLR is doing #1. They are expanding DCA so that it will draw more visitors. With that I am sure they will expand hours. Further they are looking to add more cool rides to DL that will be "people eaters" which means hold thousand more folks in lines for those rides and get them off the walkways.

As with many threads on this topic, all of the reports of crowds and AP holders and tourists spending more money on hotels etc. in the end means that DLR will work to better handle all these folks. And that means more rides, shows, hotels, and yes, more parks entirely. All good things.

 

[nana50]

I do understand where the OP is coming from. I'm a lucky AP holder from San Diego and I visit monthly. I always spend the night and go during off times to enjoy it the most. I know all the tricks and very seldom wait in long lines. When my family visited this year, (11 from Canada) they didn't have the luxury of choosing the off season as they all have jobs, school vacations, and airline prices to consider. We were lucky, we went March 3, 4, & 5th to small crowds. /I still wanted them to plan a bit. They weren't too crazy about that idea the first day, but listened to me the second day. They said it took some of the fun out having to plan so much. They plan to come back in about 4 years. So when I see a family that is obviously from out of town, and look lost, or are wondering what to do next I like to help them out. I want everyone to have a great visit as it will probably be a "once-in-a-lifetime" trip. I however can come back when I want.