Pentax *istDL DSLR...opinions??

[Jeanne B]

I've been debating for a while now about getting a DSLR. I've been mainly considering the Nikon D50 but now I find myself looking pretty seriously at the *ist (what kind of name is that anyway?!!). I've read a lot of very positive reviews about it and very little negative and there's currently a $100 rebate available which brings it down to just $469 at beachcamera with the 18-55 kit lens (or $429 body only). Does anyone here have this camera...are you happy with it?? I'm also looking at their latest model, the K100D, which has shake reduction but unfortunately no rebate but it's only $599 with the kit lens which seems like an excellent price although I'm not sure if the SR is worth the extra $130 over the *ist.

I would probably hang on to my S3 which I really like, especially for the zoom and video capabilities, but it seems so affordable to move to a DSLR these days and it would be so nice to have a DSLR for those low light indoor situations and for speed.

 

[ndelaware]

This is taken from the review of the *ist at www.dpreview.com.

Overall conclusion

The *ist DS is one of those cameras which grows on you, it's certainly compact and well put together but when you first pick it up you'd be forgiven for thinking it's a bit basic. In actual fact it packs more features and controls than most other budget SLR's and has some impressive performance to back that up. In use we found the *ist DS a very nice 'photographic tool', it always does the job, auto focus is reliable, that big viewfinder is a welcome change from some of the 'tunnel like' viewfinders found on other digital SLR's. Put it this way you're never left thinking you bought the second-best Pentax digital SLR.

With the *ist DS Pentax is clearly targeting the first time SLR user, this becomes clear when you see the 'AUTO PICT' exposure mode, the way the camera describes each exposure mode and the fact that the 'normal' image tone is fairly contrasty and highly saturated. In my opinion they could have done better by making the 'Natural' setting (with a little bit of sharpening) the default and provided 'Bright' as an option, either that or tone down the color saturation of that mode. Users upgrading from a consumer digital camera however will find the *ist DS less of a leap in what they expect an 'out of the camera JPEG' to look like.

On the downside we were very disappointed that such a good camera appears to be let down by an average image processor which is very clearly not extracting all that's being delivered to it by the sensor. The difference in detail rendition between JPEG and RAW is stark, a much bigger difference than we're used to seeing. If you're happy shooting RAW and processing all your images (and have a copy of Adobe Photoshop CS) then the *ist DS could indeed be an excellent proposition. Unfortunately this camera's average buyer will most likely shoot JPEG, and not get the most out of the camera, which in our eyes would have taken it one step higher.

Here is the full review: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxistds/

 

[Groucho]

I love love love love love my ist DL, which I picked up a couple months ago, just after the rebate came out. I can't wait to use it on our upcoming January trip!

I've wanted a DSLR for years but could never justify the cost... but I figured that maybe I'd have to dig deep and buy one before the trip, as I wasn't happy with the noise levels on my point-n-shoot 12x zoom 5mp camera. Then I found the DL and got one for very cheap and could not be happier!

Honestly, I wasn't even aware that Pentax was making DSLRs (I hadn't been thinking seriously about them so I wasn't paying much attention.) I was nervous because of the low price but glad to see the good reviews (I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't think it'd I'd be 100% happy with it.) It was an extra bonus to be able to use my old Pentax K1000 lenses on it! That poor thing had been sitting in a Tamrac bag untouched for several years, now the lenses have a second life.

A friend has a Nikon D50 and I compared them side to side - I much prefer the Pentax. It "feels" much nicer, and is smaller and lighter, and has a much larger LCD. Supposedly the CCD inside is identical between the two cameras, so the picture quality is really up to the lens rather than the camera.

Check the Pentax DSLR forum over at www.stevesforums.com if you want to see some really nice examples of what the camera is capable of.

The only problem is... when I picked mine up, it was $367 after rebate and the K100 didn't exist. If I bought one today... it'd be $569 minus $100, OR the K100 with lens goes for $600 and has image stabilization plus slightly faster autofocus and apparently a slightly better JPEG engine. I would probably end up paying the extra $130 or so for the K100, plus no fiddling around with the rebate. (Not that there are any problems with that, I got mine with no problem.)

But regardless, I'm extremely pleased with the ist DL (even though it is a dumb name! ) and even at $469, it is an amazing, amazing buy. Still, I do figure that some day I'll end up picking up a K100 (or whatever the current version is) and will keep the current as a spare body... but at the moment, I'm really not missing IS too much and apart from that, could be happy with the DL for many years.

I don't really agree with the DPReview statements about the JPG compression, and I don't think a lot of real-world owners do, either. I think that if you are at the point where you are going to see any differences that may exist (and they're not obvious, the JPGs are razor-sharp and full of detail), you wouldn't be shooting JPG anyway and will be spending time in Photoshop with every photo, so you'd just leave the camera in RAW mode and not see such an issue. Anyway, that "issue" is apparently resolved with the K100, if you are concerned about that. It may also be fixed in the DL2 or K110, I'm not positive off the top of my head if that use the updated JPG engine.

Who knows, maybe we'll see a firmware upgrade for the DL to improve that, anyway. Either way, I'm sure you'll be very happy!

 

[handicap18]

I have a D50 and love it. I haven't used the *ist, but have seen them and picked one up and I find it small. I've had slr's for years and even though the D50 is a bit smaller than the slr's I've had in the past it still is a good size. I thought both the *ist and the Canon digital Rebel were to small for my tastes.

The D50 has one of the best high ISO ratings of all dSLR's. This is important if your looking to do lowlight photography. I've read conflicting reports about the high ISO on the *ist. I have seen great photos taken with the *ist. I like the lens and flash selections in the Nikon line better. Especially with Nikon just coming out with an 18-135mm and a 70-300mm with VR.

 

[Groucho]

I think that for the average photographer, Pentax offers plenty of lenses - and all lenses ever made will work on the DL, which is awfully nice. (To be fair, one of my K1000 lenses won't, but it's actually a Ricoh-mount lens, which could also Pentax 35mm SLRs.) For flash, you do have a limited choice and they're all fairly expensive (not for SLRs, but when you're used to just using the built-in one!), but I suspect that again, the average photographer will get by just fine with the built-in.

For ISO ratings... well, here's a pic that I took at 3200ISO, handheld, with the DL:

I'm pretty happy with that.

Again, from what I understand, the D50 and the DL use the same sensor, so noise levels should be about the same. Certainly the DL at 1600ISO is quite usable and most 800ISO shots are very clear, and occasionally you can get a decent shot out of 3200 as well.

The other big difference is the batteries - and this can be debated forver with no one changing their opinion, but I am firmly in the "AA" camp. I am very uncomfortable with custom batteries like the D50 uses. I get plenty of life out of 2500mAh batteries and they're cheap - last year, I bought a 20-pack of 2500mAh ones from buy.com for $21.

Ultimately, they're both excellent cameras and anyone owning either is likely to be very happy. Someone used to the D50 might find the DL a little small, while someone used to the DL (like me) might find the D50 to be overly bulky and heavy (as I did, and that extra weight really makes a difference when you're carrying it around Disney all day). (I also was looking for a magnifying glass to see the tiny LCD screen. ) The big problem is cost - Butterfly Photo sells the D50 with kit lens for $769 (Beach and Buydig are out so I couldn't see their price), versus $412 after rebate for the DL w/kit lens. (Butterfly is out of both - no wonder, for that price for the DL.) They also have the K100 w/kit lens for $595 (in stock.)

So, is the D50 worth an extra ~$350 more than the DL? I can't see how. And is it worth $170 more than the K100? Even less so, IMHO. Especially when that $170 is only $5-10 away from getting you the Pentax 50-200m lens that's also got a rebate and is apparently a superb lens (I'm ordering mine in the next few days.)

Take price out of the equation, and you've got a fair fight. But when you factor in the bargain-basement price, there's just no comparison.

EDIT: oops! see my next message...

 

[Golf4food]

DW and I bought an ist*DL in late June, and love it so far. We bought it body only from beachcamera for around $414, then bought a separate Sigma 18-125mm lens as recommended on this board and have been very pleased with the results. I don't have experience with the kit lens, bit we're very happy with the range of options offered by the Sigma 18-125, though I still hope to get another zoom lens in the 300mm range in the future.

As for the body, we like it. My MIL has a Rebel XT, which we considered but couldn't afford at the time, and they are quite similar in size, though the Rebel is a little lighter weight wise. But the ist*DL is by no means heavy, I don't think, and I'm not a big guy. Our pictures have been mostly very good in max JPEG. Low light situations are not great, but that is the case on most cameras, and by upping the ISO I was able to get some nice shots of my DWs graduation ceremony last month. The camera does better in manual in low-light situations as the low light "confuses" the autofocus sometimes. But I enjoy manual mode and try to avoid auto focus when possible, so it doesn't really bother me...

But we love the dSLR world and will never go back to a point & shoot.

 

[Groucho]

Open mouth, insert foot. I thought that price seemed awfully high - turns out that I accidentally clicked on the one that included two lenses.

The Butterfly price for the D50 with the single lens is $533 - much more reasonable. So you're talking about a similar price upfront, minus $100 rebate for the Pentax.

At that price, it is probably worth examining both, but even if they were exactly the same price and no rebate, I'd have to give the Pentax the nod. But either way, you're making a winning choice and will probably toss your point-n-scan out the window (or onto eBay, like I did!)

 

[Jeanne B]

Thanks for all the helpful replies everyone. The more I research the more I find myself drawn to the K100 although I think I'm going to wait another week or so and see if prices drop some more after Pentax announces the release of the K10 next week (rumor has it anyway that an announcement will be made on the 13th).

I do like the idea that Pentax DSLR's use AA batteries. I know not everyone likes them but both my Canon p&s cameras use AA's and it's always nice to know you can get a replacement if you're battery dies unexpectadly (which happened to us on a cruise using our Kodak).

I'm just an amateur so I'm sure no matter what I choose I'll be happy whether it's the D50, the *ist or the K100 but I'm definitely leaning towards the K100. My only problem now is finding one in the stores to handle. Our local Staples and Walmart don't stock them and I checked online and neither Best Buy or Circuit City carry them. I always like to handle a camera before I buy since how it feels in your hands is important along with all the factors.

 

[handicap18]

Check with Ritz Camera or look for a local photo/camera/video store in your area. They'll almost definately have one. There are a few in Maine, and a bunch in NH and Northeastern Mass.

 

[Groucho]

Circuit City carries the ist DL, I don't know about the K100. But the DL and K100 are apparently nearly identical in feel, with the K100 being a tiny bit heavier. But you should be able to get a feel for the ergonomics from it.

I believe there's a photo show near the end of the month where they may announce a new camera... but I doubt prices will drop too much more on the K100 since it's so new (it wasn't even out when I bought my DL a couple months ago!) But then again, the prices on that have dropped over $100 since it came out... it's a buyer's market out there! I can't see DSLRs getting much cheaper than the DL after rebate... I think there's a price floor they'll hit (or have hit) and not go any lower. You'll just be able to get faster, more advanced cameras for that price. If the K100 price drops any more, then it'll really kill sales of the non-IS ones like the DL, DL2, K110, etc.

 

[Jeanne B]

Check with Ritz Camera or look for a local photo/camera/video store in your area. They'll almost definately have one. There are a few in Maine, and a bunch in NH and Northeastern Mass.

Unfortunately Ritz is almost 2 hours south of me but I may call the closest CC which is about 40 minutes away and find out if they have the *ist on display since, like Groucho said, it's so similar to the K100. But if I can't find one to try out I think I would still take my chance buying one online. From what I've read it sounds like the K100 is in between the Rebel XT and the D50 in size and the XT felt a bit too small to me and the D50 felt good but a bit bulky so the K100 may be just about right.

Now I just need to explain to my DH why I need a 3rd camera!! I told him I would probably sell the S3 but when I got thinking about it, why give up the 12x zoom and video capabilities?!! And we have an A620 and u/w housing since we do a lot of snorkeling on vacations. So I think I can justify all three...to myself anyway!!

 

[RALIKA]

i am tyring to decide between the cannon s3 or the pentrex ist. I will never use a tripod which is better for that. Do they both have motion things in it.

 

[Jeanne B]

i am tyring to decide between the cannon s3 or the pentrex ist. I will never use a tripod which is better for that. Do they both have motion things in it.

The S3 has image stabilization, the Pentax ist does not (but the Pentax K100 does).

If you want zoom the S3 has great zoom at 12x. I'm not familiar with DSLR lenses but I'm assuming you would need to spend quite a bit of money to get a lens for the Pentax with the same amount of zoom as the S3. That's why I'll keep my S3 if I decide to get the Pentax K100.

 

[ukcatfan]

I have also been in the market for the Pentax. Unless you guys are seeing something that I am not, the DL is almost gone in the US. Beach/Buydig raised the price of the body only to around $530 and they told me yesterday that they only have three remaining and will not be getting more. B&H/Adorama are sold out and will not be getting more. Circuit City online and my local one are out and say that they will not be getting more. I used to trust Butterfly, but they have been getting bad ratings lately and there have been some recent reports that make me think that they are turning into one of the bad guys.

I do not think anyone has mentioned the K110D. It is the exact same camera as the K100D without SR. It is coming in at a decent price now. Both of these are not a major upgrade to the *ist line, but there are some improvements in the autofocus, JPG compression, etc.

 

[Jeanne B]

I have also been in the market for the Pentax. Unless you guys are seeing something that I am not, the DL is almost gone in the US. Beach/Buydig raised the price of the body only to around $530 and they told me yesterday that they only have three remaining and will not be getting more. B&H/Adorama are sold out and will not be getting more. Circuit City online and my local one are out and say that they will not be getting more. I used to trust Butterfly, but they have been getting bad ratings lately and there have been some recent reports that make me think that they are turning into one of the bad guys.

I do not think anyone has mentioned the K110D. It is the exact same camera as the K100D without SR. It is coming in at a decent price now. Both of these are not a major upgrade to the *ist line, but there are some improvements in the autofocus, JPG compression, etc.

Yes, you're right. Availability is definitely VERY limited now online for the ist. If I decided I was going to go with the ist I would have bought it yesterday because I saw so many places were out of stock but after I started this thread my interests turned toward the K100. The D50 is also out of stock in a lot of places. The K100 is only $62 more than the K110, seems worth it IMO to have the SR.

 

[Groucho]

I'd agree about the K100 being worth the little bit extra - if for no other reason that if you got the K110, you'll always be wondering if the K100 might have made the last photo just a little bit sharper!

Of course, no IS is perfect - I found that, on Kilimanjari Safari, I got better pictures by turning the IS off on my Minolta. It was bright enough that the shutter speed was plenty fast, but the IS just contributed to the blur thanks to all the jostling around. Supposedly you usually want to turn it off if you're on a tripod, too - but I'm not sure if I ever put that one on a tripod more than once or twice.

I might have liked to keep it just for the video mode, which was superb (640x480, 30fps, and full use of zoom, resulting in very clear movies), but I just couldn't justify it. You can match the 12x zoom with the Pentax fairly affordably - Beach has a Tamron 75-300mm for $139, and I think you can get a Sigma for about the same price. They're probably not as good as a REALLY good SLR lens, but probably as good or better than anything on a PnS. For reference, a 12x zoom is equivalent to about 432mm on a 35mm, and the DL (like most digital cameras) is about 1.5x the 35mm equivalent - so a 300mm lens on a digital will be like 450mm on a 35mm.

I decided to go with quality over zoom and ordered the Pentax 50-200mm one yesterday, which has a $50 rebate on it and is, by all reports, a top-notch lens. It's also very small and light as it's built specifically for the digital SLRs, and weight is definitely important!

I think that even with the decreased zoom, the resulting pictures will be better - the higher clarity of the DSLR over a PnS will make it much safer to crop without the picture looking poor.

Jeanne, I think you'll like the feel - I think the feel has been one thing that is always consistently praised in the Pentax DSLR reviews. I think it feels just perfect. My only gripes are that in (very) low light, it hunts for focus a little more than I'd like (especially if I'm not using the flash, so it can't fire the focus assist light) and that the viewscreen doesn't have a focusing split-screen or prism effect - I still like manual focus sometimes (and it's especially important when taking night shots without the flash!) and I miss that. However, you can replace the focusing screen; new ones are about $40. I'll probably break down and pick one up. If you never or rarely shoot manual focus, it probably won't bother you. It DOES tell you when you're in focus via an indicator and beep in manual focus mode, which is nice, but there's still times where you want to focus on something other than the camera does.

 

[Jeanne B]

Thanks Groucho for all the detailed information you've provided, it's been very helpful. The Pentax 50-200 is one of the lenses I'm considering if I buy the K100 with the 18-55 kit, either that or the Sigma 18-125 which I've also seen recommended often as a good walkaround lens.

My only hesitation at this point are the two things I've seen mentioned the most about the Pentax in reviews and photography forums...low light focusing being on the slow side and the fact that the buffer memory fills up quickly in continuous shooting. From what I've read the D50 does much better in both these areas and one of my reasons for wanting to switch to a dslr is for those low light situations that p&s don't generally do well with. But overall the Pentax dslr's seem to be spoken very highly of, expecially for the price. And in the meantime the K100 kit has come down another $5 on beach (every bit helps!!).

 

[Groucho]

The low-light focusing is still very good and way, way, way better than either of my previous PnS digital cameras. It's certainly not as though that's been a problem... and for continuous shooting, the DL can take 5 shots at maximum JPG quality before filling up the buffer. I believe that the DS has a larger buffer, and I thought (but could be wrong) that the DL could, too. Again, the rare times when I have shot continuous mode, I've found that to be plenty. FWIW, the ist DL is slightly faster in continuous shooting than the D50 - though probably not enough to make a real-world difference.

But you're absolutely right about low-level stuff. The noise on my last PnS was killing me... the difference going to the Pentax (or any DSLR, probably) has been enormous.

 

[ndelaware]

My only hesitation at this point are the two things I've seen mentioned the most about the Pentax in reviews and photography forums...low light focusing being on the slow side and the fact that the buffer memory fills up quickly in continuous shooting. From what I've read the D50 does much better in both these areas and one of my reasons for wanting to switch to a dslr is for those low light situations that p&s don't generally do well with. But overall the Pentax dslr's seem to be spoken very highly of, expecially for the price. And in the meantime the K100 kit has come down another $5 on beach (every bit helps!!).

There is a reason they are mention so often in reviews and on the forums. Simply put, the Nikon is much better than the Pentax in these areas. These are issues that Nikon have overcome and Pentax is just not there yet.

 

[Groucho]

Steve: Perhaps some facts would be more appropriate than simply spreading FUD.

There are no "issues" with the Pentax nor does Nikon have a silver bullet to eliminate the basic facts of photography, that is that higher ISO levels have more noise (which is I assume what you're referring to, since that's only only possible thing that Nikon folks can point to as being superior on the D50.)

If you have some facts to back up your comments, fine. Otherwise, feel free to put on your Nikon pajamas, pull up your Nikon bedsheets, and take a nice relaxing nap. Don't worry, a D50 is still a fine camera. But it's not the ONLY fine camera.