Paused to Buy... and I Hesitated... Here's why... ®¿®

[EastCoast]

Yesterday I received my package for purchase at BCV. We are reading through the various materials and a red flag has just popped up.
Here is the problem (as we view it):

According to the DVC Member Benefits Guidebook, certain special benefits are offered to DVC members as a courtesy and are not a feature or component of the ownership interest in any DVC Resort. "The member benefits described in the Guidebook are available for a period of 3 years or less."

These programs include:

• DVC World of Golf Progam (I don't care)
• DVC World of Attractions Program (basically a 10% admissions discount to the parks)
• Disney Collection Program (allows you to book into other resort hotels such as AKL, CBR, CR, CSR, FWR, GFR&S, Poly, POR, YCR as well as the California and Paris resorts and the Vacation Criuses)
• Disney Vacation Club Travel Program (which includes the Adventurer Collection and the Concierge Collection)

The Guidebook also includes a standard disclaimer that says, "You should not purchase an ownership interest in the vacation ownership plan in reliance upon the continued availability or renewal or extension of these specail programs".

In other words (IMHO), don't plan to stay anywhere else except the DVC resorts after the next three years (at most).
This concerns me! Is it only me? Any owners out there for more than three years... was the same limitation placed on you?

EC

 

[Regina]

If you look at it from the perspective of those who bought in the beginning, most of that has been added , not taken away.

It's been my experience that we get more options, not less.

 

[CarolMN]

Using DVC points to stay at non-DVC resorts is not generally considered an economical use of DVC points. The point requirements for the non-DVC options are renegotiated on an annual basis and there is no "cap" on the increase. Using your DVC points outside of the DVC resorts for an occasional change of pace is a nice perk, but it can (and is, IMHO) an expensive one.

If you are planning to take advantage of the Adventurer Collection, the World Passport Collection or even the Disney Collection on a regular basis, there are more economical ways to take those vacations than a DVC membership. If "trading out" is very important to you, then IMHO, DVC is not right for you.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Dean]

I agree, you should not buy if those issues are make it or break it for you. You should buy to stay at DVC resorts, the other items are just fluff and expensive fluff at that.

 

[DebbieB]

I bought in 1999 and my book said they were only available through December 31, 1999. I think they are saying that they are not guaranteed that they all will be continued to be available. There is alot of options in there and they may have to withdraw some for one reason or another and they don't want any liability for it. All they are guaranteeing you is your DVC resort. It didn't concern me because I bought to stay at DVC resorts.

 

[RobDoc]

Those programs, or others like them, have come and gone in the past 10 years. All have had the same warning- that they are not guaranteed aspects of our DVC membership.

Most have stayed in some form (the 10% discount at water parks and PI, the Disney Collection, the Concierge Collection), some have been removed (World of Dining Program) and many have been augmented over the years.

As already mentioned, if you are considering DVC membership for anything except the DVC resorts themselves, be aware that those other reasons may change or be removed.

I think it's great that you have ben reading the documents BEFORE you purchase and not depending on comments made by sales staff or others to base your final decision.

Enjoy!

 

[EastCoast]

Thank you dvcreg, CarolMN, Dean, DebbieB and WebmasterDoc. I appreciate your comments.

This is how we came to consider DVC in the first place...
My sister-in-law and brother-in-law approached us with the idea of a trip to Orlando. They have a friend that owns a Marriott timeshare and was willing to sell a week to each of us at a great price. Eight of us visited Florida from July 13th to the 20th. While in MGM we happened upon a DVC booth where I spoke to the rep for a few minutes. I repeated the same five-minute (or less) discussion with other reps in Epcot and MK. Then, on our way to the airport to return home, we spent an hour at the DVC office at BWV to see a display room and to hear a more complete explanation of the club. Upon returning to NJ, we started to look into the club, post messages on the DIS boards (where everyone is so helpful), develop some spreadsheets to get a feel for the dollars and cents, and to make calls to DVC sales as questions arose. Recently, we placed a deposit on BCV and waited for the official package to arrive.

Here is where I believe we went wrong...
My wife and I have been to WDW about seven or eight times. We always enjoy the trip but not to the degree that we want to visit every single year. We were intrigued by the idea that as club members we could save money on the better accommodations when in Orlando, and at the same time, there was the flexibility of being able to visit other resorts and hotels around the USA and Europe at times when we did not wish to go to Florida. I was also thinking that we might take our first ever cruise, and as I am sure many board members would agree, what better 1st cruise could there be than a Disney cruise. While all of these statements are true, as has been pointed out, this would not be the most economical way to vacation if we plan to frequently use non-DVC facilities. Honestly, we're disappointed at this revelation, but as WebmasterDoc hints, better to find out now by reading the package than to be surprised after signing on the dotted line.

EC

 

[DVC'96]

I agree with the other statements on this thread, but I want to add that the reason those dates are on your statement is because that DVC negotiates contracts with DCL, WDW resorts, and the company that we do timeshare trades with(can't remember the name right now). We joined in '95 and at that time Interval International was the company DVC did the trades with. They now use someone else but we still can trade out of DVC. Yes, they legally can make it so we can only use our DVC points for DVC resorts, but it is to their advantage to have these options available to present and future members(so we will all buy more points!)
We've used the Concierge Collection and cruised on points. They are not the best use of our points, but I agree the options are nice.
Good luck with your decision

 

[kem330]

Many people find it better financially to rent their points at $10 (or more) a piece and use the cash for alternate vacations then doing the trades. Something to consider....

 

[PamOKW]

Disney has all kinds of legalese to protect themselves. It's true that the only guarantee is that you will be able to stay at the DVC resorts and even that has some "legal language" covering catastrophic circumstances.

It is not the best idea to purchase DVC unless you plan to make use of the Disney, Vero and HHI options for your primary vacations. However, I wouldn't expect that we would be losing outside trading options unless something drastic happens to the program. In fact, they have been doing their best to continue to add to the Concierge Collection options (which didn't exist early on). Currently the timeshare trade company is II. In the early years it was RCI. They did not guarantee we would keep RCI. That gave them the flexibility to pursue a better option, II. If something they determine is better than II comes along, they have the flexibility to switch to that program.

If you think the overall program doesn't make sense that is good to decide now. However, don't let just the wording scare you away. I was concerned about the other WDW hotel options. I quaked with fear every year when they came up for renewal that they would be discontinued. It's 10 years later and the program is still in place. It just has to be renewed every year.

 

[EastCoast]

Basically I am in agreement with most of what has been posted. No, I am not really worried about the legal wordings, but I am concerned that because of the way we have booked vacations in the past, for us, the DVC program is not quite as flexible as I may need it to be. Flexibility was a selling point for us. IMHO, "as described" by DVC sales is not quite "as it reads" in the package. The obvious reply is that this should not be a surprise to anyone.

The fact that we travel up and down the east coast, I thought that having DVC would be a benefit. But the rules regarding booking on short notice, and the length of stay requirements do not fit our travel profile.

Of lesser concern, from past experience, I have had to make last minute changes to vacation plans, and a few times, I have had to cancel and rebook at a later date. Bookings outside of DVC are not very kind to these needs.

All that aside, and not that this is the most important issue, I am disappointed at the possibility that the Disney Cruise and resorts such as the Grand Floridian may not remain available to DVC members.

When a "concerns list" begins to form, regardless of whether the issues are large or small, the volume of issues makes me take a step back and reevaluate what I am doing... and why. Right now the cap is back on the pen.

EC

 

[Dean]

Your concerns are appropriate but let me get you to think a little more. Frankly, the other convenience options were never a real value so if you were counting on them, you may be better off having to step back and look again. I can't count the times that I've heard "I looked X years ago and decided not to buy for Y reason. Now were looking again and boy how much we would have saved if we had bought back when we were looking before."

You might consider buying enough points to do what you want with DVC and then looking at cash for the other options. Better to be looking for an add on later on than to be stuck with a larger contract that doesn't fit your needs. While the renting option is a good one currently, that too may or may not remain a viable option.

You speak about the lack of flexibility. That is the strong point to the program to many of us. We are comparing to other Timeshares in many cases. No club or timeshare will ever be flexible enough to be able to consistently pick up and go with a few days notice. If that is your usual way of travel, stay far away from timeshares other than possible renting at the last minute. DVC's cancellation policy is pretty liberal and has even gotten more so in the last couple of years.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[DeeP]

If you are not going to use the DVC membership to stay at DVC resorts the vast majority of times you are really not getting the true value of the membership. DVC is a wonderful thing but it is not for everyone and only you know your vacation wants and needs.

 

[PamOKW]

this would not be the most economical way to vacation if we plan to frequently use non-DVC facilities.

This is probably true. I'd take Dean's suggestion and give it one more consideration. You say that you've been to Disney 7-8 times. If you think you will consider to visit every other year or more, think it through.

Your original post indicated you were more concerned that the option to use points outside of DVC would not exist in the future. I don't foresee this happening. You should not be concerned that you would be "locked in" to Disney only. The economics of using these options is a seperate consideration.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

You said you have been to Disney 7 or 8 times. So the first question to ask is over what time frame was that and would you see yourself going to Disney every other year? If you do the minimum contract may be the way to go. You would have 300 points to play with every other year on your trip to Disney.

One reason I bought is because I was planning to go to Disney anyway and thought...hey why don't I just apply the money to my purchase? And bought a 150 pointer that is working wonderfully (I'm single). Depending on how frequently you go and the accomodations you use you could break even and from then on have Disney accomodations for the cost of maintenance.

At the same time...the economy isn't soooo good. So if you planned to finance I might skip it unless you have a government position.

 

[dbond]

This concerns me! Is it only me? Any owners out there for more than three years... was the same limitation placed on you?

We bought our membership in 1997. Yes, the same wordage was in our contract. Things do change, for instance, the timeshare tradeouts, (not Concierge Collection) used to be with a different group. Somebody else help me out here, I don't remember who, RCI maybe? Anyway, DVC has to protect themselves from lots of possibilities. Is it in their favor to drop those options, I don't think so, they are a big selling point, so I don't think they will. But as we all know, we can't predict the future, neither can they so they have to protect themselves from things in which they have no control. Pool hopping is another example. When we bought, pool hopping was a welcomed perk, but the fine print did warn us that it could be taken away. Well, things changed, DVC owners grew by leaps and bounds, too many DVC'ers were using other pools, BCV opened, they had to cut the cord. Park passes were another of those early perks. The fine print also reminded us that the park pass option would end by a certain date. Did we think that we were losing something? Some did, and some were just happy with the perks we got while we got them and realized that they can't give us everything we want or they wouldn't be able to stay in business. So the bottom line is, you are buying into the DVC resorts until 2042. That's what you're guaranteed, the rest is gravy.

 

[BCVOwner2002]

EastCoast,

Being a new member of DVC, we had some of your concerns too but you have to think of the amount that you have spent on prior trips to WDW. Since you have been there 7 or 8 times, more than likely you will go again. How much do you typically spend on accommodations? You should take this into consideration.

Even though others have said DCL may not be a good use of points I believe it is since I will plan a cruise around my points and won't have to pay any more out of pocket expenses. If DVC decides to remove this as an option, that's okay too. I like staying "on property"! The convenience is well worth it.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[vernon]

I wanted to agree with Dean, DVC is about as flexible a FIXED (i.e.timeshare/prepaid holiday club) vacation set up as you're liklely to find, but it isn't certain that you would be able to book at the last minute ( although going outside of the main vacation seasons you are likely to get some accommodation). Again, it's been said but needs to be underlined, much that is concerning you is required legal speak. Disney (or any other copmpany that offered something similar) has to give itself room to change offers that in the future may prove uneconomic or undesirable to offer.
I'm not sure which parts you refer to as unflexible, but although for the II swaps you generally need to book for a whole week, there are many hotels around the world that you can use points on a day by day basis. While these aren't necessarily the best economical use of your points, there is a pretty good choice of places to go.

I always try to advise people thinking of DVC to look at buying less points than you think you are likley to need as it makes you be economical/imaginative with the use of what you have. With banking and borrowing, even a trip everyother year can justify the purchase, as long as you don't own too many points that force you to use those points in the least economic way. I try to look at DVC as being the highlight of a longer trip so it doesn't fulfill ALL my vacation needs, but is the icing on the cake of a nice trip.

 

[JonHM]

personally, I think that for a timeshare, DVC is *extremely* flexible, and that is one of the main reasons that we bought in. Several points - the planning way in advance really only applies to the DVC resorts, I don't think it would affect using the concierge collection - also, many, MANY DVC members used to be last minute trip planners, but sort of evolved into early planners to make the best use of DVC, ourselves included. I know for us that DVC is one of the most wonderful things we have ever done - I highly recommend it.

 

[mooses41]

Remember that while dvc may change options or remove them (which is unlikely, especially for the disney ones), your points will always have value. So if you rent them you can always do whatever you want with the money.