Our daughter has asked for a seperation - seeking advice and a shoulder or two . . .

[Tiggerlovinggrandma]

Well, DH and I knew it was coming and it has finally happened. DD asked her husband of 2 1/2 years for a seperation on Wednesday. She moves into an apartment next week with our nearly 2 yr grandson. Let me give you the details:

DD and SIL have been having proiblems from the get-go but they have been steadily increasing as of late. The two fo them have been married just 2 1/2 years and have a beautiful son. He will be 2 in March.They were engaged mere months before they found out DGS was going to make an entrance. They chose to marry earlier then planned for the baby. Even before the engagement or news of the baby, DH and I as well as other family members saw things that worried us about our future SIL but we respected our daughter's choices and tried to put a positive spin on things. We have supported the two fo them throughout. When DGS finally made his appearance we were overjoyed and he has become the love and joy of our lives. Since the original marriage ceremony was short and to the point, DH and I gave our DD (our only) and SIL a beautiful wedding celebration on their 1 year anniversary. Our daughter was stunning, SIL handsome and our beautiful GS was picture perfect and cute as a button in his little tux.

For the mere 3 years we have know him, DH and I have found our SIL to be immature and irresponcible. We hoped he would mature but that has not been the case. For instance he screams divorce at every single disagreement the two of them have, he has said too many times to count that he can't handle marriage nor the demands of fatherhood, he tells DD that she is too compulsive about cleaning because she insists on a clean and neat home he calls his mother to come over (his parents live right behind them) to do his responcibliites (cat litter, garbage and yard care) and she does it, he spends money they do not have, charging everything he sees or wants. he has disrepected her father and I on numerous occasions and these are just a start. DD also learned he had 3 engagements before her and he is only 27.

The last straw for DD came recently when SIL chose not to take part in a recent family planned Disney trip citing he couldn't afford to go. NOTE:DH and I paid for everything (hotel, tickets and meals DXDDP and anything extra for DGS. All DD and SIL had to bring was spending money. Anyway we accepted his reason and took our daughter's best frined instead. While there DD found out her husband went out to dinner and a bar every night with his buddies, charging his tab then decided to drive to the beach, 10 hrs away with his best friend for the weekend. When she returned home DD found he had also spent additional money on new electronics for himself. NOTE: he just brought a new flat screen TV, DVD player and Blue Ray before Christmas. To top it off, he enrolled in college. Now mind you, DD, DH and I feel everyone should have as much education as possible so going to college was never an issue afterall our daughter attends college. However he has CHARGE it, all of it. Now this is a man who already has $30,000 of credit card debt from before he married DD. He has added to this amount since they said I do and keeps doing so. Why companys still send him cards is beyond me? The creditors are ringing their phone off the hook and now he has added even more fuel to the fire.

He has refused counseling up to now citing he has no problems. His parents thinks so too. DD told him Wednesday that she is so unhappy and can not do this anymore. She asked for a seperation. she went out and found a little one bedroom apt and is moving out on Wednesday. We live in NC, so to obtain a divorce here, you must have a 1 year seperation and agree to professional counseling before the courts will grant one. DD is hoping that her husband will now have to go to counseling and perhaps there is still a chance for them, slim as she feels that may be. DD has cut her college classes down to 3 so she can work more to pay for apt, electric, food, etc for her and DS

DH and I feel for our daughter and our hearts are just breaking at the thought our DGS will have to go through all this. I kept praying it would not come to this. SIL has an older brother who is divorced and will be possibly be going through another one soon. Anyway the first was brutal, messy and just plain nasty. SIL has already said to DD that if they divorce he knows ways to make it the same for her. Nice huh! So we feel he will make it as nasty as possible.

DH and I know we need to be as supportive as possible to both DD and DGS. This will be rough for them both. We have offered her to come home but she says it is too far from her work and school so has chosen an apt instead. She has opened a bank account in just her name as well. We aoffered her the use of a car, some furniture, and some money (though we can't do much on that front right now). Of course we also watch our DGS as often as possible.

Aside from this what else can we do? I need any and all advice. Please! It is so hard to watch your daughter and grandson's life fall apart. DD is only 22 and although she is maturing with age, she is still so very young to be going through all of this. DH and I worry about her as well as our DGS and what this will do to them both. Part of us want to shake DD for rushing into this relationship with both feet in the first place but then again we have all done equally stupid stuff at one time or another. We all make mistakes and have errors in judgement. I guess we can only hope that if things do not improve in the coming year for them that the divorce won't be nearly as bad as we expect and that DD will be wiser when she does fall in love again. I would hope she will fall in love again with someone wonderful, responcible and mature that will love her deeply, madly and completely and that would be an awesome step parent for our little peanut. We also hope and pray that DGS will remain as happy, healthy and sweet as he is today. No one deserves this least of children.

Thanks for lending me your ear. It truly means a lot.

 

[Krissy Marissy]

I dont have much to offer but want to say that I am sorry your family is going through this. Most of all I am sorry for your daughter. DGS is young enough that hopefully he'll come through this just fine as he doesn't quite understand what is happening. Just be there for your daughter. Dwelling on the past wont help...just help her build a new future. GL to you all.

 

[MickeyMomOfThree]

I don't have anyting to offer but . I remember reading about your trip before you went and hoping for your DD's sake that the absence would make the heart grow fonder. I am sorry it did not. I'm sure it is hard. Best wishes to her on growing stronger through this...

 

[kellyg403]

I can only tell you what I needed from my parents when I was going through my divorce. Love her, help her when she needs it and asks for it and sometimes when she doesn't, don't make comments about SIL if you can help it no matter how angry you feel, let her talk, say your sorry and help her find ways to keep her mind off the situation if you can.

The one thing that I remember that I loved my parents for doing for me was a couple small things really. They lived 5 hours away, but once every couple weeks my mom would send me and the kids a blockbuster card and a Pizza Hut card. I was so broke and I felt so bad that I could barely keep food on the table let alone any fun stuff. The kids and I would get so excited to see the envelope in the mail. It meant movie night, forgetting our troubles, putting blankets on the floor and having a slumber party. I will never forget those moments my mom gave to me. When I told her how much it meant to us, she never even realized and she even said that. Once they came to visit and bought some groceries, filled up the freezer. Just lifted my burden a little bit.

She will need you and she will want you to accept whatever decision she makes even if you don't agree. If they get counseling and decide to try and work it out, let her do it without any disparaging remarks. She will find her way but she will need to come to the end or start over only when she feels the time is right.

You sound like loving and caring parents. Just be there. She will appreciate everything. As for the remarks about making her life miserable if they get divorced, she is thinking emotionally now. Help her think logically. When she mentions that to you remind her that he can only make her as unhappy as she lets him. Remind her to let her lawyer do the talking if she can't. Just be unemotional about the divorce process so that she learns that there is another way to approach things. My ex used to threaten me all the time with taking away the kids, his parents had money so he would tell me they were going to finance his part of the divorce and bury me. I was scared night and day because I knew in my heart me and the kids we not so financially secure that I could fight him tooth and nail. My mom would remind me the lawyer said that he had to prove me unfit to do that to me. And she would remind me what he said would make me unfit. It helped to hear logically he could not find me unfit etc.

Good luck and many prayers and hugs coming your way!

Kelly

 

[smithmom]

Dear Tigger Loving Grandma,

My heart goes out to you and your family. There is no good answer here. But it sounds lie your daughter is stepping up and taking responsibility for both her past and future decisions. You love for her is THE BEST thing for her. You should tell her (if you haven't already) that you are behind her. Her decisions, all her decisions, have created who she is. And it takes one he'll of a strong woman to make her latest decision. I'm sorry she, you, and your grandson have to go through it. I am thinking of you all and praying for a happy outcome.

 

[Karlzmom]

1st This is a terrible situation with hurt a plenty to go around. I am sorry you are having to go through this painful time.

2d: I will pull on my flame suit now, as the following thoughts, though completely intended as support and encouragement will likely be taken by some as flame-worthy. I intend no disrespect, and hope that you will take my post as an expression of the sadness that I feel reading your post, and believe that I really want to helpful in some small way.

I just read a fantastic article about a woman who's mother helped her through "leaving", and what the mom did for her daughter....it was entitled "The Day I Left My Marriage, and the Unusual Advice That Challenged My Decision"

In the article, Mom gave the daughter a piece of paper with a line drawn down the center and asked the daughter to list all the things that DH did to make life with him impossible. Thinking ahead to the 2d column, with the thought that it would be a column of "good" qualities, the author made the list of all lists of faults. Every possible complaint that could be raised, every slight, every offense...filling the whole column.

When the author finished, she said that now she was ready to DH's "good points"..the few that she had already mentally decided to concede. Mom, however said that she already knew DH's good points, the 2d column was for DD to list for each item on the left column how DD responded.

DD had to concede that she was not exactly "innocent" in the marital problems... pouting, crying, nagging, playing martyr, etc.

When DD finished, Mom cut the list in half and sent DD home w/out the baby to think, meditate, pray on the items on "her" list, promising that if DD did as asked and still wanted to leave then she would have full support.

In the end, the author decided that maybe it wasn't "all him" & committed herself to making her marriage work. She also came to realize that she was willing to create a whole new set of struggles, particularly for her child, based on only looking at her DH's flaws.

As a divorced woman, with more than a decade of time in the rearview mirror since the marriage failure I can say fairly easily that it was BOTH of our fault that the marriage failed. PERIOD! I firmly believe that absent a perfect person, a failed marriage always has two people who chose not to fully live up to their vows.

I know you want to "be there" for your daughter and grandson...an admirable endeavor. In your post, I can't help but sense that you have been siding with DD in her frustrations...is it possible, just possible that by providing the ear/shoulder/affirmation that she's all right & he's "immature" that you have enabled the marriage to hit the breaking point? Please do not look at my post as a slam, or as "blaming." I only ask because absent a truly abusive relationship [not simply "i don't like it when" but physical violence] the best life for your grandchild will be in an intact home. Little good can come from the permitting of complaints and affirming the bad.

Consider the notion that DDs highest duty is supposed to be to him. If his pride won't let him accept a vacation, paid for or not, then that should be the end of the discussion. Its that whole "leave and cleave" thing. If she's old enough to be married and have a child [and that ship has left the dock] then she is old enough to have to deal with her problems in her marriage.
There was a time that DD could not imagine life without this man that she now wants nothing to do with. They have a child, and frankly the man will be in her life for many years to come, and he will be involved in your grandson's life whether as his father in the home or as a seemingly never ending "problem"....if he won't go to counseling, she should go alone. She can only work on "her" list. Time, encouragement to make it work, and honest reflection on how she can give, not expect, may work wonders....

I hope that you, and your DD, can find peace in this time. Again,

 

[cancer_survivor_06]

I remember when you first posted about him not wanting to go and am sorry for the end results. prayers and hugs to you, your dh, dd and dgs.

 

[ilandrazdsw]

I remember you telling us about some of these problems before Christmas. So sorry to hear things have worsened. You mentioned the trip, did you, dd and dgs have a great time...at least a chance to have a little Diwsney magic?
I don't have any advise to offer, but I'm sending a big . You know all you fellow DISers are here for at least an ear . I'll keep your family in my prayers!

 

[GreyGooseCosmo]

No flame suit, Karlzmom. You're right on.

I'm a divorced mother of one too. I luckily found my soul mate after years of broken hearts and promises from my ex.

My suggestion to your daughter: make the list like Karlzmom suggested. Meditate / pray on it (just be silent and think). REALLY think.

If she decides that divorce is the answer, then the best gift you can give your daughter is a good attorney. And don't EVER let her believe that they can hammer out a detail "later" or change something "later". Trust me - it doesn't work that way, but attorneys will tell her that it does. Changing a court order requires significant time, energy, money, and a "qualifying event".

Also, until they have a shared parenting agreement in place - he can take the child and run, and since they're both the legal parents, the police won't interfere much (or at all). Keep that in mind.

If you'd like to chat, just PM me. Sending big to you and yours.

 

[Tiggerlovinggrandma]

First off let me apologise for bringing such unhappy news to the boards. This is suppose to be about the happiest place on earth and here I am laying out our family struggles on everyone. I am so sorry but I guess I just needed a place to get it out. I can't express myself fully about the situation to my daughter as that wouldn't be right or what she needs. However I needed to get it all out somewhere. So I do apologise for using your shoulders to cry upon.

Let me also say how much I do appreciate all the welll wishes from all of you. It really means so much. I would also like to respond to a few of you.

Kellyg403: Thank you for the advice. DH and I do plan on doing whatever we can for our DD, SIL and DGS to help them out whether or not the marriage works out or not. We, like DD, hope this all turns out to be a just a transition period for the two of them. A time where they both can reflect on their marriage and hopefully come to some mutual conclusion to work it out. Sometimes couples just need some space to think about things. However if they can not save their marriage, then we will continue to help out as needed and pray for the best for everyone concern.

Karlzmom: Don't worry there is no flaming coming your way at least not from me. I understanding your advice and how it was intending. I think I will try the list outline in the article you read for my daughter as it sounds like it would be a good thing. I will also be the first to say my DD has her own share of issues. We all do. No one is perfect. She is fuilly aware that even though her husband has some serious problems that she too is not completely blameless. She knows it takes two to make a mariage and it will take two to end one. I know she has tried talking out their issues with her DH numerous times.I also know she has ask to go to counseling many times The decision to move out was not a light one on her part however I think she felt she had no other recourse. She continues to hope that with the counseling mandating by the seperation that perhaps they can finally find ways to work it out in the coming year. She is using this year as a cooling off period, a time for the two of them to step back a bit and think about what it is they both want and whether they still love each other enough to fix their problems.

As for DH and mine feelings about our SIL. It is true we have had our doubts about the guy from the beginning and yes, we have seen his responces to things that concern us deeply however we have not shared these feelings with our daughter. We know full well that this would work against them if they stood any chance at all in making their marriage work. The way in which they entered marriage (with a baby on the way) was going to already be a struggle enough without us adding to it. We did not want to be a factor in destroying a marriage least of all our daughter's.

As far as siding with DD over her problems with DH and her marriage. We tried extremely hard not to do that. DH and I keep our personal comments about SIL to ourselves as hard as that is sometimes. We do listen to our daughter when she does talk to us about problems they have had or are having which is not always or 100%. She trys hard not to run to us. When she does share we usually respond with ways in which she can see or do things differently and in a more positive fashion. We also do tell her when we see her doing something that could negatively affect the marriage as well. Much to our DD's dismay lol, we tell it like we see it with her. We always have. So even though we have witness most of our SIL serious ar not so serious issues, we also see what our DD could change or handle differently as well. No matter what the issues are between them or whose side they stem from, DH and I have always wanted them to work things out and stay together. Yet, at the same time if they try but can't work things out and are truly unhappy with each other then we know that would not be good either for our GS. We don't weigh on the side of divorce. DH and I have been married for 27 years. We have had our good and bad times, our share of issues. Fro the most part we have worked them out. A marriage is a work in progress. We believe too many people nowadays run for the courts instead of working on their issues. So we encourage our daughter to keep trying and work on the relationship for as long as possible. The final decision however is theirs and we will support them and our DGS with whatever decision they choose.

Thanks for all the hugs and advice. As fro those that asked about our WDW trip, We did have great time with our grandson. DD was a bit preoccupied with problems at home but still managed to have fun. Our DGS came back with a new find love. He loves Mi Mo (aka Mickey Mouse). We will be taking him back in September. I started a tirp report but with the lastest issues on the homefront, have not completed it. I hope to do so this weekend.

I will keep everyone informed as to things on the home front. Please keep the prayers coming and thanks again.

 

[MichelleVW]

Sorry your family is going through this hard time. Are you sure about the mandated counseling? I got divorced in NC and all we had to do was be separated for a year, which in my case sucked because my ex was a fruitloop. As soon as we separated I went in and got a custody agreement so he couldn't run off with the kids (he threatened it many times) but we didn't do any counseling at all.

 

[DRS_Are_Best]

I'm so sorry that your family is going through this. I can't offer any advice, but I can tell you this -- I truly believe that EVERYTHING (the good and the bad) happen for a reason. My BFF was in a marriage that started well, but over time just turned out bad (for both of them -- no blame). Unfortunately, things got really bad for them just after the birth of their son (married for 8 years at that point). They separated, officially, when the baby was 8 months old.

Now, 7 years later, both of them are EXTREMELY happy and remarried. They are still close (mainly because of their son for whom they have joint custody) and everyone is happy with the way things turned out. I'd be lying to you if I told you that things were easy at any point along the way -- but things did work out in the end.

I hope that, even if your dd and sil can't reconcile, I hope that everyone finds happiness in the end. After all, that's the most important thing, isn't it?

 

[crisi]

Think carefully about "fixing" the marriage. Two year olds are usually pretty resiliant - he'll forget about Daddy ever living with Mommy and this will be his reality. That isn't the case if the marriage gets a temporary patch and breaks when he is twelve.

I'd want to be confident there was real change and committment....

I also think his threats are a sign that if she goes back, this could become physically abusive over time. My sister was in one of those.

 

[arielsleepingbeauty]

You just need to be supportive to her. I just went throug this and my ex treated me horribly. My mother tried and tried to "fix" our relationship, and still think we should get back together. I told her that she should want better for her daughter. I had a big beautiful house and 2 DD's 6 and 7 at the time. It took so long for me to finally decide that i couldn't live with him anymore. It wasn'tt an easy decision. No mother wants to put their children through a divorce and moving too. I give her credit. It takes a strong woman to do this for not only herself, but her child too.

My DD's never saw us happy, never saw us be affectionate. I couldn't let them grow up in a house like that. kids are resilient. I didn't beleive it when a friend told me that a house is just a house, kids make new friends and they move on. They definatley are resilient, at least in my case. My girls are close to their dad. He is a good father, but not a good husband. My girls could see that. They weren't stupid. They heard the fighting. When we moved, they never cried. We now live in a small 2 bedroom and you know what, they are so happy. All they cared about when we were looking for a new home was that we could have a swingset. They have never asked to go back to the house theylived in since they were born.
I am an independant woman. I rely on no one. I make my own money, pay my own bills and I do it all for my children. It is a great feeling to know that i can do it on my own. I am a social worker so i have dont have alot of extra money. We pinch pennies which is fine.
I wish my mother would stop telling me that i should have stayed with him. I wish she would just be supportive and proud that i am making it. I was strong for me and my children and I will never regret it.
It is almost two years later and a year ago I met someone wonderful who loves not only me, but my girls too. I never thought i could find someone that would , but it did happen. They have their dad that loves them and then my DBF and that's just a bonus for them. My girls see their mom happy and their dad happy too and I am glad that they will grow up and see us happy even if we are living separate.

So please please please, just be supportive and listen and don't tellher that she is making a mistake. it will be hard for her, but she can do it. She deserves better.

 

[SmallWorld71]

My prayers are with you and your family.
Having watched many friends go through similar situations, I think the best thing you can do here is get your daughter a good lawyer who will really help do what is best for DGS. It is a very rare couple who can work out child support and custody agreements on their own and DGS really needs someone who can work for his best interest.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Sorry to hear of your troubles, and there is a great deal of good advice here. Just remember that the SiL will be a part of your life for a very long time if he cares for his child...

 

[ALittleDisneyFan]

TLG- I am so sorry to read about your daughters marriage. I have never been in that situation but I wish her and her husband (and your DGS) the best of luck.. Hopefully with on-going counseling they will be able to work on their marriage.

By the way, you are a good Mother and grandmother. Your love for the two of them shines through your heartbreaking post.

 

[Villainess]

Having just gone through a divorce in April with a DD, then 18 mos and a DS, then 5 mos, the best thing you can offer your DD and DGS is your love, support, a shoulder to lean on, and an ear to listen. Helping DD find a good attorney is definately a great help especially for the interest of DGS. A PP mentioned the visitation schedule - I would encourage your DD to get the parenting rules outlined ASAP bc your SIL could just taken him and run.

I'm on the leary side of encouraging fixing a marriage; your DD has obviously dealt with a lot and sometimes a marriage will fall apart bc of one person's doing.

My divorce was messy and nasty and it is not fun. exDH even went so far to say his DS wasn't his and put us through a paternity test at 4 weeks of age. His attorney suggested it to combat my allegations of exDH commiting adultery (which were facts and proven). So if SIL wants it to get nasty, the right attorney will do it and your DD will need even more support and hugs.

Hugs and prayers to you, your DH, DD, and DGS!

 

[DISNEYNV]

I am so sorry to hear about your DDs recent seperation. I feel for her but also applause her strong decision to take herself and her son out of an unhappy situation. It will be hard for her and DGS at first I am sure but being so young herself I am positive that she will adjust and so will the baby. Offer her support, love, but try not to be critical of her decision. Hopefully it will all work out for the best and she will eventually find herself in a loving relationship that is built on honesty, love and trust. Everyone deserves to be happy in life! Also...if possible take your grandson a few hours a week and do something special with him I know he us only little but he most likely feels the stress of it all.

 

[debraW76]

I too am so sorry to hear what your family is going through. I went through a divorce a few years ago and my mother helped me so much through this most difficult time and I would like to share how she helped me.

First of all create an environment where she can be completely honest with you. Even though I was 30 at my divorce I still felt I couldn't confess my sins to my mother. After I realized that she would love me no matter what I could tell her everything and it meant more to me knowing that she loved me UNCONDITIONALLY. She didn't like some of the things I told her but she still loved me. I say this because no matter what your SIL has done (and I mean no disrespect to your daughter) it still takes two to make a marriage fail.

Also my mother did help financially. She helped sooo much at Christmas and birthdays without expecting anything in return. She took us out to eat, to ballets, and other nice perks that I couldnt do with my children otherwise. I do not recommend you paying so much that she becomes dependent on you but just enough to add extra joy to her life. Basically I paid for the necessities and she paid for most of the extras.

Like a PP said do not bad talk the SIL. SOme days I hated him and said some awful things and some days I said what if I made a mistake, should I go back. But no matter what I said she loved me. We did actually divorce, but if your daughter decides to try again it will hurt her remembering all the bad things you said about her husband. Besides no matter what he is still the father of your Grandson! It would hurt him if he heard you say bad things about his dad.

My mother prayed with me, cried with me, and laughed with me but most of all she loved me.

To your daughter I would recommend talking to a good divorce attorney immediately. you mentioned that in NC you cannot get a divorce until after 1 year of separation. during this one year the things she does will greatly impact the outcome of her divorce (if she decides to get one). I didn't do this and it cost me greatly. Because of some things I said and did during our separation I lost custody of my children simply because I didn't understand how the law worked. Fortunately I have them back now but it took several thousand dollars and millions of heartaches and tears to reverse the decision.

Divorce is the hardest thing I have ever done. It hurt. It affected more relationships than I thought possible. I lost two of my very best friends and several other friends. People that I loved said some horrible things about me. Make sure she knows how difficult and painful this will be not only for her and your grandson but others involved in their family as well.

And lastly I would recommend to you, your daughter and everyone in your family to be careful what you say and know that everything can be used against you. Even what you say here on the disboards!

I will remember you and your daughter in my prayers.