OT: Now the septic/well inspections failed!!

[tyboyz]

Hi, I am sorry this is off topic again but I get really good advice from this board!!!

Anyway, I am buying a new house and the actual home inspection came out great and radon was a little high. But now both the septic and well systems have to be replaced. It sounds like this really irritated the sellers but we went ahead and asked them to put the money in escrow for replacement of both these systems. They feel we are being unreasonable but we paid top dollar for this house and I feel these are 2 very big items.

Are we being unreasonable? Isn't this how most people would have handled this?? I am new to septic and well but I don't feel like I should have to put the new systems in just to by the house.

 

[Stein]

Nope, that is not unreasonable. The house is not liveable without water and septic service. They should both be rendered acceptable before you buy the house. I also think you would have trouble securing a loan for a home with those problems.

 

[DMRick]

We sold a house for a friend in a nursing home a couple years ago. Her septic failed and she put the emtire amount in escrow. We were told it would be almost impossible to sell otherwise.

 

[Disneydreaming6]

Is it unreasonable to expect to beable to drink the water or use the shower in your new house? Of course having to put the money in escrow annoyed the sellers, the problem they had was found out. I would think you would know there is a problem with your septic system. It could be old, back up frequently, overflow etc. If your septic system is bad, you know it. You are not being unreasonable. Septics and wells are not cheap to fix, your lucky you found out before you signed off on the house.

 

[KimRaye]

I agree with everyone here, and I work for a real estate attorney, and these are NOT unreasonable requests. In fact, here in Illinois, we have a disclosure law that would mean that your seller now HAS to disclose these situations before another offer is made to EVERY potential buyer (hence their possible annoyance).

Not knowing where you're at, I can't say this law applies to you, but just know that in Illinois, this is NOT Unreasonable!

You did right by getting a home inspection to start with!

Good Luck with the new house!

 

[jennifer293]

I would also think that if they did not do it for you and decided not to go on with the sale then they are going to have to do it for the next potential buyer, so they are really in a pickle right now as far as that goes. I am sure they are just irritated that there is a problem at all and now they are going to have to pay for it and not get as much out of the sale as they thought. I sold my house "AS IS" just for this reason...not that there was anything wrong with the home (to my knowledge), but just because I didn't want to have to throw out any extra money on the home if there was.

Good Luck on your hopefully soon to be new home!!!!

 

[samijam]

I sel real estate and it is not uncommon for a seller to be a little unreasonable when they find out about such major repairs. Just remember they probably had no idea they were not working properly. I always remind people they would not want to buy a house with major deficient condition. (you are slao covered in the purchase contract for deficient condition). Always ask for exactly what you want in writting and give teh seller a reasonable amount of time to absorb the cost of the issues.
If the seller will not make concessions for repairs (escrow, or make the repairs before closing) then you have every ability to walk away and recieve your deposit back.
I can tell you in all my expieriences the seller will come around to the repairs unless they can not afford it financially and they may decide not to sell.

You are right not to conceed on these 2 points they can be very costly to repair. Good luck

 

[tyboyz]

Thank you for the replies!!! I agree that they must have known even about the well since it ran dry at around 250 gallons. Even though they didn't put it on their disclosure, in my opinion these are the reasons they decided to "retire" at this time. I am told they must disclose it to any future buyers.

Anyway we sent them a proposal to put all the money in escrow and we are just waiting for a reply. It is a great property with all new systems but without them, I will be walking!!! Just wondering would anyone walk just knowing these are bad, sort of as a sign that maybe this isn't the right place. I have that concern too sometimes after all these failing tests althought the house inspection was perfect.

Thank you for confirming my thoughts, they were making us feel we were unreasonable.

 

[C.Ann]

In New York, selling a house "as is" will not protect you from having the buyers come back on you.. There is a disclosure notice that has to be filled out and if the septic and/or well failed and you chose not to purchase the home, before they could offer it for sale to someone else they would have to fill out a new disclosure form that states the septic and well have failed the inspections.. How many people do you think are going to make an offer on a house that is not liveable? Probably zero - unless the new buyer happened to be someone that does wells and septics for a living..

Have them get estimates for the repairs that need to be done.. Then they have two choices - either have it done themselves or credit you with the amount of money needed to do the repairs at the closing..

 

[dvcgirl]

Thank you for the replies!!! I agree that they must have known even about the well since it ran dry at around 250 gallons. Even though they didn't put it on their disclosure, in my opinion these are the reasons they decided to "retire" at this time. I am told they must disclose it to any future buyers.

Anyway we sent them a proposal to put all the money in escrow and we are just waiting for a reply. It is a great property with all new systems but without them, I will be walking!!! Just wondering would anyone walk just knowing these are bad, sort of as a sign that maybe this isn't the right place. I have that concern too sometimes after all these failing tests althought the house inspection was perfect.

Thank you for confirming my thoughts, they were making us feel we were unreasonable.

They're lucky that you are still hanging around at this point. I wouldn't feel badly in the slightest...please, radon is one thing, but having the septic and well fail is a *big* deal. If they don't fix it or escrow the money for you to have it replaced...I'd walk.

I think that the problem when this kind of thing happenens is that the sellers already had the entire profit in the bank. When an inspection comes back with problems, especially major problems, they feel like they're "losing" money in the deal.

 

[Nancyg56]

I sel real estate and it is not uncommon for a seller to be a little unreasonable when they find out about such major repairs. Just remember they probably had no idea they were not working properly. I always remind people they would not want to buy a house with major deficient condition. (you are slao covered in the purchase contract for deficient condition). Always ask for exactly what you want in writting and give teh seller a reasonable amount of time to absorb the cost of the issues.
If the seller will not make concessions for repairs (escrow, or make the repairs before closing) then you have every ability to walk away and recieve your deposit back.
I can tell you in all my expieriences the seller will come around to the repairs unless they can not afford it financially and they may decide not to sell.

You are right not to conceed on these 2 points they can be very costly to repair. Good luck

I agree, do not agree to purchase unless this is addressed. We hve a well and a septic system, and repairs or replacement can be very expensive, not to mention the inconvenience during the repair. We had a neighbor tapped into our well for over one month after their well had problems. Remember that in most areas, the health department is involved, as well as the building inspector. It took them over 3 weeks to get their permit approved, for some reason.

If you do decide to purchase after the repair is complete, make sure that it is on record at the town hall before you purchase.

JMHO, we knew when we were having issues with our septic system, and I heard that several of our neighbors had signs that the wells were not operating correctly.

Good Luck!

 

[The Disney Bunch]

Totally not unreasonable- these are essential items for the house & it is their responsibility to have them working when you purchase the house. It should be something that the house sale hinges on.

 

[snowbunny]

It is a great property with all new systems but without them, I will be walking!!! Just wondering would anyone walk just knowing these are bad

Yes absolutely. The key is not to get emotionally attached to one property. The owners obviously hoped to slide by without addressing these problems, but if they don't fix it for you, they'll be fixing it for the next person, as other posters have said. If they can't face that, then move on. After the next contract or two is broken, they'll be ready to be more reasonable.

I have both septic and a well. Believe me when I say if there are problems, they are known. There is simply no possibility that the owners had no inkling of these issues.

 

[Nancyg56]

They're lucky that you are still hanging around at this point. I wouldn't feel badly in the slightest...please, radon is one thing, but having the septic and well fail is a *big* deal. If they don't fix it or escrow the money for you to have it replaced...I'd walk.

I think that the problem when this kind of thing happenens is that the sellers already had the entire profit in the bank. When an inspection comes back with problems, especially major problems, they feel like they're "losing" money in the deal.

That is why in some state, ours is one, certain repairs must be made prior to approval of the sale. Setting asode money for a window or a door may be allowed, but electrical problems and well and septic are not.

 

[stephbillalec]

We bought our house almost 3 years ago. The house inspection went fine but the septic system inspection failed. Thank God we had this inspection done...many people pass this one over to save a couple of bucks. Anyway, the owners had no choice but to put up the money for a new system. If not, we would have bailed on the deal. They got three bids on the new septic system and $38,000 was put into an escrow account. Yes, it cost $38K. There is no way we could have paid that after buying the house! We closed the deal and construction began a month after we moved in!

 

[tyboyz]

Wow, $38,000 my realtor asked them for $25,000 in escrow. I better revisit that. On the well side I wonder if we should have them put the monet in escrow or have it done before we move in?? I have no experience with wells. I think I want it done before we get there.

How bad was the septic construction? I am wondering if we can live through it and if the septic system will hold up for us while we are living there?? Man this makes me all so nervous.

 

[java]

Yes I would get quotes for the new septic and drilling deeper for the well. The cost will all depend on where you are drilling. For us on a mountain- a STONE mountain all that is very pricey. And these are things that are make or break for a deal. I would never every move into a house that I had to replace both of these on. It is the sellers responsibility. Are you willing to maybe lose the house? I would be with those 2 problems. Those are biggies.
Edit to add that I know in NJ the laws have recently changed for what is acceptable and what fails(within the past 3 years) so they very well may be surprised to see it fail. But it is not your problem- it is their problem.

 

[budbeerlady]

Wow, $38,000 my realtor asked them for $25,000 in escrow. I better revisit that. On the well side I wonder if we should have them put the monet in escrow or have it done before we move in?? I have no experience with wells. I think I want it done before we get there.

How bad was the septic construction? I am wondering if we can live through it and if the septic system will hold up for us while we are living there?? Man this makes me all so nervous.

I would have this all done before everything is final! The well drilling isnt so bad, that is done in a day and a half and isnt as messy as the septic. I would also wonder what else they are hiding about the place.

 

[C.Ann]

$38,000 for a septic system? I had mine put in at the lake (1000 gal. tank plus a dry well) for $2200.. Well drilling is more expensive - in the $7000 range..

I know someone who just got an estimate for a new septic system last week (a 1000 gal. tank plus a LARGE leech field and the price was only $4800..

 

[samijam]

If the sellers agree to rapair or escrow you must remember it is still their house and they do have the ability to contract whoever they want to do the work. In most cases the seller will obtain two estimates and the buyer one. They should all be pretty similar. If the money is escrowed you can negotiate who you want to do the work. If the sellers do it before closing they can hire the contractor. You should however negotiate to reinspect the repairs before closing a few days after they are complete.

I just had a new septic put in my house last year. I guess it depends on your location but if it is a septic system usually the leach field is what need repair depending on the size of the tank will determine the size of the leach field. In RI where i live and work it is usually between 5000-8000$ for a new leach field. If it is a cesspool which is an older system wich is no longer permitted in most states the whole system will need to be updated usually around 6000-10000$ for the system (I have a 3 bed house and a new leach field cost me 6000.00 last year). It is a pretty common thing so estimates are usually right on the mark.
As far as the work it is not too bad it took 4 days total the worst part is when they start because the tank has to be emptied and all the water not leaching properly removed and that can be pretty stinky. other than that we could use the baths as usual.
Just have the person who gives you an estimate explain it to you.
A welll can be more of an issue. Most states have a minimum flow (gallons per minute) acceptable. Usually it requires drilling deeper to tap into water it is hard to know how far they will need to drill to get adiquite water. If the problem is the pump or the point it is a little easier to determine cost. Same thing should apply get a few estimates and re inspect before closing.
Just remember they may not have known about the problem. I sell a lot of homes and most people don't know until it is tested.

Most mortgage co's will require 1 1/2 times the cost held in escrow to cover if the cost should go over. The money in escrow not used for the specific repairs is returned to the seller after the buyer is satisfied with the completed work.

Good luck don't let it scare you too much. If the sellers are willing to repair you will get the added value of a new well and septic should you sell down the road.