OT---Is there such a thing as "the 4's"?

[LaraK]

I have a beautiful 4 and a half year old daughter. She's smart and funny and a real joy...except with me. She and I fight constantly. I kind of expected to butt heads with her during her pre-teen years, but not at 4!

I sometimes try to just ignore her when she starts acting like a brat (screaching, tantrums, etc...) but when she is disrespectful, I generally blow my top (all that italian blood doesn't do mellow very well ). I have been trying to distance myself, ignore, count to 10 (or 100 depending on the infraction) but I must admit that I sometimes just lose it and catch myself getting out of control (screaming at her).

Her brother (2) is often ill due to several chronic illnesses, and I used to think that she acted out when he was ill to get attention. However, she's old enough now to know better. I don't want to raise a brat. On the other hand, I don't want to over react to something that is a stage. Anyone else go through artificial teen years with a pre-schooler?

 

[noodleknitter]

I always thought the 4's were a step worse than the 2's. I could mentally cut my 2's more slack than I could the 4's! There is something about being able to have a conversation with someone and still having them act like pediddles!

4 really, though, is the next step in independence. I hope things start looking up.

Good for you, counting to 10...or 100, and keep at it. Get some time off when you can, and take care of yourself. Being a mom is much harder than people make out...

 

[I'mNoPrince]

Our terrible 2's have lasted to 13 as of right now. Her and DW really have it out sometimes but she knows I don't put up with it. I run vacation time at Disney as well so that helps.

Past 2 years things have gotten much better not that it's that bad but she does have her momments of disrespect(towards DW) and I can't stand that at all.

 

[BelleBoo&AmisMum]

Oh yes, I have one of those at home too!

She'll be five next week - if she makes it that far. She cries, screams, demands, begs, pleads, whines. And the thing is she knows that none of that is acceptable behaviour in this house! Her brother was a walk in the park at this age, she's just so hormonal. And her younger sister makes her look like an angel, I have the feeling I'll be bald in the next few years.

 

[LISAVWL]

OMG! I thought I was the only one! Mine is 4 1/2 and we've been butting heads for months
She is an angel with everyone but me! My family thinks I'm nuts because she is so well behaved with them all the time. I also have three DS and they're so much easier to deal with! I hope this passes soon. I've tried counting to 10 (100!) time outs, screaming, begging! you name it and nothing is working! To OP, you are not alone!

 

[minkydog]

I thought 4yo was much worse than 2yo. At least at 2yo you can distract them and change their minds. At 4yo they have enough reasoning & verbal skills to match almost match a parent and they are just maddening! Thankfully, they hit 5yo in 12 months and then they just whine and cry all the time

 

[Newcastle]

I think this is why they coined the phrase "the frightful fours"!!

 

[Stephres]

A book that helped me is called 1-2-3 Magic by Thomas Phelan. Basically, you count to three and if the child is still doing the behavior into time out she goes, one minute for her age. No talking, arguing, negotiating, zip. I will have to say that my challenging four year old gets time out much more than my even tempered seven year old, but it has worked so far. As soon as she starts back talking I say, "Stop back talking; that's one." She will usually stop but if she wants to argue that she's not back talking she will get counted to three and into her room she goes. It usually takes her longer than four minutes to calm down, but when she does she always apologizes.

I think the trick is to avoid getting into a discussion about the behavior. Four year olds are so good into manipulating moms and soon you're yelling about something totally off topic! Hang in there!

Oh, and mine is an angel with everyone else but me too. I always think it could be worse: she could be an angel with me but a devil with everyone else!

 

[Elmo888]

As far as her being 4 and old enough to know better than to act out to get attention vs. her brother's chronic illness, she isn't old enough to know better. I often think that my 6 yo is old enough to understand things, but she doesn't. It is almost like I think that if she can talk this well, certainly they can understand what you are saying, but they don't. She can repeat difficult words, but can't necessarily understand the concept behind them.

I had 2 siblings with chronic illnesses, and I certainly didn't understand, even as a teenager. I'm 37, and I still don't understand why my parents treat my now adult siblings, still with chronic illnesses, the way that they do. It changed my character, but that wasn't something that I understood as a child.

Often, children are reflecting your behavior. When I lose it, I scream, too. I hear my mom scream when I scream at my 6 yo. (I'm half Italian, but I inherited the screaming from my non-Italian mom!) When my 6 yo screams at me or my 2 yo, I hear myself.

When you become that angry, try to remove yourself from the situation, if you can. I go have a "mommy timeout", and I go sit in my room by myself. And watch non-kid tv shows.

The other thing that really worked at that age was putting toys in toy timeout. Take any favorite toy and tell her that she can get it back tomorrow.

I know how you feel.

 

[ilovejack02]

My 4 yr old was an ANGEL at 2, now he can be hell on wheels. The second he starts acting up, screaming when I say no, or tells me Im a bad mommy when I say no... or whatever i deem wrong, he has to the count of 3 to stop if he doesnt its off to his room to sit on the end of bed. Usually no longer than 10 mins. I know they say 1 min for per yr... WHATEVER, sometimes I need that long to cool off LOL. Also when he starts hollering and screaming we do the "you better take some big deep breathes before you have to go to your room" and its so funny to see him gulping air trying to regain control LOL, usually that works the fastest.

 

[LaraK]

Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone. I know that DD is too young to really control her behavior and it's my behavior that has to be controlled. It is just so frustrating (and she's teaching her brother her bad habits).

I think that a part of it is that her brother gets attention because he has to and I'm sure she worries when he has a crisis (one of the his issues is asthma and he gets pretty sick pretty quickly which requires that I hold him and give him breathing treatments). This can how on several times a day for several days in a row. I think one of the things I really need to do is to find some dedicated mommy daughter time any time I can.

I do the time-out thing...day before yesterday she was in time out for about 30 minutes because she kept getting up and "re-setting the clock".....sigh, I guess I have to just wait this one out. I'll take the good wishes and think of them when I keep counting and counting and counting and counting....

 

[tinker girl]

MY DS IS GOING TO TURN 5 IN A MONTH AND HE IS FINE BUT MY DS 3 IS IN THAT STAGE. I HAVE NOT HAD THE STORE FIT YET I'M HOLDING MY BREATH AND TELLING MYSELF ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!! I GOT AWAY WITH OUT IT THE FIRST TIME..MABY TWO WILL BE MY LUCKY NUMBER!

 

[dementia412]

When my son hit about 4 and a half it was like a pod person replaced my sweet little perfect boy... he started being so disrespectful, but only to me, and only when we were out alone. He told me to shut up, wouldn't follow direction, and was in general a little brat. It lasted less than a month. Then again at 5 1/2 he started the same behavior, and again it just went away after a few weeks. I did nothing in particular to stop it either time. I have no idea why he got better!
My older daughter never did that stuff. Oh, they are all a major pain sometimes, never keep their rooms clean, and my DS has a filthy mouth (my fault 100%). My DD3 is the one I'm worried about though... she is the smartest, least fearful, and most aggressive. If she decides to be liberated Lizzy my DH and I are in for some trouble.

 

[KerriMc]

My first DD is now five years old and four was not fun with her. She was ok for most everyone else, but with me she just loved to argue, back talk, defy ... just irk me in general. She turned five and things gradually started to improve. She is going to be six in March and is so MUCH better now it is incredible.

I also have a younger DD who is three. Now she is in a HORRIBLE stage!!! She had terrible twos (oldest never did), now we are in the threes, which I hoped would get better, but it has only become worse. Much more emotional outbursts and screaming (from her too ). I have a tendency to "lose it" with her as she is totally frustrating. I am beginning to dread our upcoming WDW trip in March as she is just in such a phase it is driving me crazy !!!! She hits, spits, kicks, SCREAMS about anything and everything, fights like crazy with older DD, throws things, etc .... when will this end?? EVER????

Sorry here ... didn't mean to hijack your thread with my problems ... I am just feeling totally worn out with this one and really am dreading the frightful fours because I just can't imagine that it could get any worse !?!

Someone said that this means she won't give me the teenage headaches ... do you think maybe this is true??? One can only hope!!!

Kerri

 

[tjmw2727]

I think it depends on the child -when that testy age hits. For many its the 2's, hence the terrible 2's but with my dd's it was the 3's with one and 4's with the other.

I loved the series of books by Ames and LLG - they go by year and give you ideas as to why your child may be doing what he/ she is doing and then you can figure out how you would like to handle things. I find some parenting books too much into the you must do a timeout - must not do a timeout etc so I loved the approach these books take. The 4yo book is wild and wonderful and IMHO very appropriate.

Here is a link to amazon if your interested:
http://www.amazon.com/Your-Four-Year-Old-Louise-Bates-Ames/dp/0440506751

TJ

 

[Whosemom]

OP - breathing treatments are hard for everyone. The treatment kid's miserable and just wants done and down. The non-treatment kid just sees mom holding the stinking baby on her lap YET AGAIN. Meanwhile, mom is trying to act calm, screaming inside because this is the second treatment in 2 or 3 hours, not the four you were hoping for, and is this the time you are going to rushing a blue 2yo to the ER. The four year old at this point insists she needs something (help with a video or computer game, or help me pull on this dress-up outfit) that mom, who now has the 2yr old in a half nelson to finish the stinking treatment can't possibly get up, or fix what ever it is with her free right big toe...

whew.
cut your self some slack if you occasionally lose it. THe 10000 times you don't are what they will remember. Just try your best.

 

[peemagg]

Something that my cousins use when their kids and foster kids get out of line is that they make the kids stand in the middle of the room with their hands above their head. This seems to work very well and was actually recommended to them by the foster system. A few minutes of their hands up and their arms and shoulders start acking. Once or twice of that and they think twice about their behavior.

 

[jojoandhb]

I don't know. My baby is 3 1/2 and hasn't thrown a tantrum in well over a year.I think it's my approach. I treat her like a person, and I make lots of time for her. When I cook, I let her break eggs and add milk or whatever. She even helps clean up the mess. If she wants to change her clothes 10 times, I let her, but I make sure she puts the clothes she took off either back in the dresser or in the laundry. I don't yell or scream at her. If she does something wrong, I talk to her about it and tell her why it wasn't ok. Kids need a lot of attention, and they will do whatever it takes to get it. I spend as much time with her as I can in a day. I play as much with her as possible, and I let her help with everything I do even laundry and things that she isn't really helping with. I don't care if I have to refold the towels when she's done.
Ever watch Nanny 911? When kids act out with only one person, it usually has something to do with that person. I know there are tons of parenting books you can get. Dr. Phil's is supposed to be really good.

 

[noodleknitter]

So, as long as you let her do whatever she likes, and cater to her every need, she is happy. Wouldn't we all be? Lucky you only have one!

OP, hope you are feeling more positive today!

 

[mikamah]

LaraK, I know exactly how you feel. My son is almost 5, and he can be such an imp some times. He is always worse with me than anyone else. I wish I had some words of wisdom. Sometimes, he'll ask for something- candy before dinner, and I'll say no, and a meltdown will ensue, "your the meanest mommy", and I'll just ignore it, but when he's out of control and I find myself screaming at him, I always feel awful afterwards, but try to step away, and regain composure, and bring him and me back into control. I think a lot of it is him trying to become more independant and be in control. When a huge battle is fought over a little thing, it would have been so much easier to give in, but I can't. I think if you give in once bad behavior has begun, it will just be worse the next time. I wish I could see the future, and change my answers accordingly. He's my only one, so it's easier to step back, not having another younger child in the picture. Hang in there. Here's hoping these stages pass quickly.