OT: How do you address....

[sjams]

an envelope? I have always done it like this...
Mr. and Mrs. John Doe
my MIL always does it like this...
Mr. and Ms. John Doe
Who is right?

Also she addresses things to me: Ms. Jane Doe
I think it should be either: Mrs. John Doe or just plain Jane Doe?

What do you all think?

I don't know why this bothers me so much but I do love things to be gramatically correct and she thinks she is superior in ALL things and addresses those things like I posted above. She even sent a letter back to my husband that he had written to her when he was in the Army, corrected in red pen! My husband NEVER has even signed his name to a thing to her since and that has been 15 years.

 

[mckryan]

Here are some links you could show her. You are correct, and she is incorrect.

http://emilypost.com/etiquette/everyday/forms_of_address.htm
http://rebecca576.tripod.com/etiquettebyrebecca/id84.html

 

[MrsPete]

Answer from an English teacher:

It depends upon what the woman to whom you're addressing the letter prefers. Some women prefer the ambiguous Ms, which clouds their marital status, while others -- like me --find it slightly insulting because it belittles their husbands by pretending they don't exist. I can understand why single women (especially those who live alone) prefer to remain a little mysterious about their marital status for safety reasons.

So which is CORRECT? Neither is correct 100% of the time. It is grammatically correct -- and polite -- to use the title that each individual woman prefers.

Since we're discussing grammar, "Ms" IS NOT written with a period after it because it's not an abbreviation for anything. Mrs. is an abbreviation for Missus, and Mr. is an abbreviation for Mister. Ms is not short for anything. Miss is also written without a period because -- again -- it is not an abbreviation.

By the way, I didn't like one thing in that Emily Post website: it says that if a woman "outranks" her husband (for example, if she is a doctor while he is "only" a Mr.) her name should be listed first on the envelope. That sounds very insulting. The order of names on an envelope is a tradition, not a hierarchy of importance! This implies that all other women are "lesser than" their husbands automatically. By this logic, a husband who's unemployed should be automatically knocked down to second-class status. I think it's an attempt by "new ettiquette" to be "modern" but it's missing the mark badly.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

I think you're wasting your time trying to prove anything to her. If she would do that to a letter her son sent her, obviously she is set in her ways. Just try to have the satisfaction of knowing you're right be enough and let it go. Life is too short to deal with such pettiness from people.

 

[sjams]

Thanks, ya'll!
I do find it insulting to be addressed as a Ms. I am married to her son and I am thinking that is one way she is expressing her dislike for me!

I am not going to prove anything to her since she isn't worth it to me, I just wanted to know who was correct! I will just gloat in silence!!

 

[WDWfan36]

I wouldn't make a big fuss over it

 

[Cool-Beans]

Answer from an English teacher:

It depends upon what the woman to whom you're addressing the letter prefers. Some women prefer the ambiguous Ms, which clouds their marital status, while others -- like me --find it slightly insulting because it belittles their husbands by pretending they don't exist. I can understand why single women (especially those who live alone) prefer to remain a little mysterious about their marital status for safety reasons.

So which is CORRECT? Neither is correct 100% of the time. It is grammatically correct -- and polite -- to use the title that each individual woman prefers.

Since we're discussing grammar, "Ms" IS NOT written with a period after it because it's not an abbreviation for anything. Mrs. is an abbreviation for Missus, and Mr. is an abbreviation for Mister. Ms is not short for anything. Miss is also written without a period because -- again -- it is not an abbreviation.

By the way, I didn't like one thing in that Emily Post website: it says that if a woman "outranks" her husband (for example, if she is a doctor while he is "only" a Mr.) her name should be listed first on the envelope. That sounds very insulting. The order of names on an envelope is a tradition, not a hierarchy of importance! This implies that all other women are "lesser than" their husbands automatically. By this logic, a husband who's unemployed should be automatically knocked down to second-class status. I think it's an attempt by "new ettiquette" to be "modern" but it's missing the mark badly.

I'm so tired of people quoting Emily Post as proof of anything being correct. Ug.

If the woman goes by "Ms," then she has to be a seperate line. You aren't Ms. John Doe, you are Ms. Jane Doe (or Ms. Jane Smith, if you didn't change names.) "Mrs. John Doe," is the wife of John Doe. Ms. doesn't mean anything, except that she's a woman.

I'm not against the use of Ms. I like it, and that's the truth. If everyone wanted to switch it around so that girls dropped Miss at the time boys dropped Master, and all women had one title, like all men do, I'd be all for it.

And a woman who is a doctor is still the wife of her husband, "Mr. and Mrs. John Doe" is still appropriate.

In fact, many, MANY people who have the title "Dr." (medical or other) do not use that title socially. Some even frown on it. So, you gotta find out if that person uses it or not. It may mean something somewhere else, but makes no difference on an envelope, or in a social setting (unless a bride passes out and someone cries, "Is there a doctor in the house?")

Address the woman however she wants to be addressed.

As for the MIL, or anyone else who always wants to point out your errors, I have found that a pleasant, "Really? Is that right? I didn't know that!" makes them happy...and you haven't agreed or disagreed. This also works well when you were wrong, so people never can tell if you're happily corrected or blowing them off.

 

[mjkacmom]

Many married women today don't wish to be addressed Mrs. John Smith, but rather Mrs. Jane Smith. I've addressed many envelopes John and Jane Smith. I personally don't mind being Mrs. John Smith if the envelope is addressed to both of us, but if a letter is addressed to just me, I don't like it to say Mrs. John Smith, but rather Mrs. Jane Smith.

 

[Sparx]

I always write "Jane and John Smith"

No mr. or miss or ms or mrs. Too easy to offend people. But if it is only for one of them, such as its for john but not jane, I would just write "John Smith" and vice versa.

And I would be offended if my MIL wrote "ms jane smith" instead of "Mrs" when she knows that I'm married to her son. But I would not be offended if she wrote "jane smith" with no mrs, miss, ms, or mrs.

Thats just rude.

 

[salmoneous]

It's correct to address people by the name they use.

If they use Mrs. John Doe, then that would be correct. If somebody else uses Ms. John Doe, then that would be correct. However, I don't think I've ever known anybody to use Ms. John Doe (I'm sure there must be somebody - but I've never met them.) Typically, Ms. would be used with the woman's first name, not her husband's. Mr. John and Ms. Jane Doe. But that just starts to get silly, which is why I would use John and Jane Doe - unless I knew the person didn't like that and preferred something else.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Mrs. Jane Smith means one of two things. Jane Smith was married to John Smith, but he died, so now she's Mrs. Jane Smith.

The other possibility is that the woman you are addressing is married to Jane Smith...but that isn't very likely (and I'm not getting into that debate.)

Mrs. Jane Smith would not be properly used for a woman who is married to a man that is still alive.

 

[sjams]

I always write "Jane and John Smith"

No mr. or miss or ms or mrs. Too easy to offend people. But if it is only for one of them, such as its for john but not jane, I would just write "John Smith" and vice versa.

And I would be offended if my MIL wrote "ms jane smith" instead of "Mrs" when she knows that I'm married to her son. But I would not be offended if she wrote "jane smith" with no mrs, miss, ms, or mrs.

Thats just rude.

That is exactly why I put this post on here. She has never recognized that I am married to her son. She has never in the last 11 years put "Mrs" on anything and never even written just my name. It is always "Ms" not matter how she writes it. It just bugs me since I am married to her son.
I am not going to comfront her or anything I was just seeing if I was in the right or wrong.
Thanks for all the advice!

 

[Galahad]

The problem comes when you don't know how the person refers to themselves. I'd prefer first names and just leave off the Mr. Mrs. Ms. altogether. DW doesn't particularly like Mrs. and I guess prefers Dr. if formal communications. But she absolutely HATES Ms. and prefers Mrs. to that any day.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

I used "my" name, that is my birth surname, in business through two marriages but used my husband's last name in private life. From time to time a business acquaintance would refer to him with my last name. I was always quick to correct the error. But I told my husband I'd always use Ms because in all fairness unless he wanted to be Mr. Me, I didn't intend to be Mrs. Him! He's cool with that.

Your m-i-l is incorrect in a lot of ways. She's simply pointing out her disrespect for you, I think. Why not ignore it. She can't hurt you if you don't give a crap what she thinks.

 

[Amapola]

I used "my" name, that is my birth surname, in business through two marriages but used my husband's last name in private life. From time to time a business acquaintance would refer to him with my last name. I was always quick to correct the error. But I told my husband I'd always use Ms because in all fairness unless he wanted to be Mr. Me, I didn't intend to be Mrs. Him! He's cool with that.

I also keep my surname, because in my country it's not common for women (under age 60 anyway) to take their husband's name. DH and I find it very amusing when my US acquaintances (who've met me after I married) refer to him by my last name. I hate to receive mail addressed to Mr. & Mrs. or the equivalent in Spanish "Sr. José Rodríguez y señora". Sorry, I have a name, I'm not just an anonymous señora or Mrs. I adore my DH, and we've been happily married for almost 18 years, but I'm not an appendix.