OT-Anyone have any exp. trying to get child support from a self employed ex?

[springandmac]

My DH just found out that his ex now owns the very profitable orthodontic lab that she works at. (Her parents used to own it but have since retired and gave the business to there children) In 2005 she had wages of $47,700 (as an employee of her parents). Now that she owns the business she has wages for 2007 of $23,850 (according to her W-2). For those of you without a calculator that's exactly half of what she used to make.

Her weekly pay is $344 and she pays monthly insurance for her and her son of $487. So she's grossing around $1000 a month but she still lives in her $189,000 (which she's selling to buy something bigger), she somehow bought a $40,000 Infiniti last month to go along with her $25,000 Toyota.

Something isn't adding up.

DH is worried that he won't be able to convince the judge that as a business owner she has access to the business funds and is probably running all her expenses through her business.

Anyone have a similar experience?

 

[bunnyscootles]

My mom has been dealing with this for years my father does private government contract work (often classified) and has somehow managed to hide earnings or reroute them for about 15 years.
This is not to say it's without penalty, he's actually been charged with 2 felony's and is currently in jail - but that still doesn't mean my mom is getting any back money.
What he owes is even a joke, the state says he owes 125k but the problem with that is that it's based on unemployment (because they can never verify another income) but he's an aero space engineer, which doesn't take a rocket scientist (no pun intended!) to figure out they make wayy more than unemployment.
It's a mess, it really is. If you guys can afford it then private counsel and an investigator would be your best bet.

 

[Darcy03231]

Since she is an owner of the business he is entitled to see the business records. She most likely won't give them up voluntarily, you'll need a court order. You'll then need a forensic accountant to go through the books to see what is actually business and what are personal expenses. The process can get rather expensive.

 

[springandmac]

If you guys can afford it then private counsel and an investigator would be your best bet.

You'll then need a forensic accountant to go through the books to see what is actually business and what are personal expenses. The process can get rather expensive.

That's the part we want to avoid....We're trying to weigh the savings in child support vs. the expense of hiring a lawyer and a accountant.

Unfortunately things aren't going very well for us. We subpoenaed her wage information to be made available for DH to view on March 14th. DH called the clerks office for almost 2 weeks and they kept telling him she hadn't brought in the info. I mailed his ex a copy of the subpoena again with the consequenses of not turning the info in (jail and fines). She sent a nasty email saying that she already dropped it off and not to send her anymore copies because she already had enough of her own. So DH called the court Friday and told them that he was told that she brought the info down there and low and behold they found it. Now we're 10 days until court and they tell us that we can't subpoena her business tax info (since we now know she owns the business) because there's not enough time (apparently, 15 days are needed to subpoena) Ughh!

 

[Darcy03231]

If you decide to continue on your own, which I don't recommend:

1. File a Motion to Continue the hearing based on the fact that you just discovered she owns a business and you need to do further discovery.

2. If you can't get the hearing continued, make an argument to the Court that's she voluntarily underemployed. Point out that she made double the income she's now claiming two years ago and all her recent purchases. Also let the Court know that she now owns her own business but you just found out and haven't been able to get the records.

I really think you should get an attorney involved at this point.

 

[bunnyscootles]

it seems to be either an inexpensive long frustrating process
or a super expensive kind of long semi frustrating process.

keep on everyone and keep good records - be the squeaky wheel

 

[springandmac]

If you decide to continue on your own, which I don't recommend:

1. File a Motion to Continue the hearing based on the fact that you just discovered she owns a business and you need to do further discovery.

2. If you can't get the hearing continued, make an argument to the Court that's she voluntarily underemployed. Point out that she made double the income she's now claiming two years ago and all her recent purchases. Also let the Court know that she now owns her own business but you just found out and haven't been able to get the records.

I really think you should get an attorney involved at this point.

DH called the clerks office and they said that since this case was going to last longer than an hour, the 4/9 hearing would be a pre-trial hearing and that he could file the motion (that I spent all weekend drafting) to see her business tax records at the pre-trial hearing and the judge would decide then if the records are necessary and if so, would order her to bring it to the official hearing.

In the motion, I made the argument that she either falsified the wage information she provided (her company uses quickbooks...I could tell because my company uses quickbooks and I recognized the paystub format. It's simple to make a copy of your file, alter it and print out the fake paystub, W-2, etc.) DH said that while he was married to her (7 years) that she never paid for her insurance but she wrote a letter for herself stating that she pays for it. Of course, there's no signature on it so if you didn't know that she owned the business you would think it was a letter from her employer. We also argued that she's intentionally underemploying herself since she's been able to maintain and improved her lifestyle over the last few months.

DH won't hire a lawyer, he never has except for in the very beginning and that lawyer was worthless, DH lost his shirt in the divorce. She's taken him to court for visitation (so DH could have less visitation than every other Wednesday and every other weekend) and child support several times (interestingly enough, she took DH to court to increase her child support about 6 months before her parents gave her the business, tell me that wasn't planned - the outcome of that case was her child support went down $10 and her lawyer dropped the case) She has always gotten a lawyer and not done too well, this time she doesn't have a lawyer. I think when she finds out DH knows she owns the business, she'll lawyer up.

Well thanks for letting me vent.....this is a very frustrating situation to be in.

Darcy03231.....If your a lawyer, I hope my comments about DH loosing his shirt because of his lawyer didn't offend you. I know there are good lawyers out there but I don't want to cancel my WDW trip to afford one. Plus I don't want to explain to my step son that the reason we cancelled the trip was to take his mom to court.


And thanks for the bunnyscootles. I'll need them.

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

I have a friend who is battling her soon to be ex, they owned a business together and he has falsified tax records, he got a refund of $77K and she got the tax bill for $144K but he is the owner of this company , she was only 20% co owner, ANYWAYS she is fighting all that in court. The Judge ordered him to bring the paperwork in JULY of 2007, as of today, he still makes excuses that he is "trying" to get all that paperwork together....

Fortunately his trail of deception is FINALLY beginning to catch up with him Sadly, she still has a loooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg way to go but she is not giving up!

Good Luck
Mulan

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

Just wanted to offer a hug and a "good luck"!

If I were you I would lawyer up too. There has to be at least 1 good attorney out there in your area.

DH has been battling his ex ever since their divorce. He got taken to the cleaners big time too.

If you ever want to share stories or vent - feel free to PM me.


Kelley

 

[springandmac]

Just wanted to offer a hug and a "good luck"!

If I were you I would lawyer up too. There has to be at least 1 good attorney out there in your area.

DH has been battling his ex ever since their divorce. He got taken to the cleaners big time too.

If you ever want to share stories or vent - feel free to PM me.


Kelley

Thanks for the well wishes Kelley!

I've always been DH's "lawyer" so to speak. I prepare his showcauses, motion to amends, and subpoena duces tecums. I lay out his court arguments in a notebook so when they get around to talking about that subject at the hearing all he has to do is turn to it and start reading. The outcome has always been favorable for DH. I think it helps that DH's judge has little patience for dad's who are putting an effort into spending time with their kids and mom's who are trying to take that time away for no good reason other than spite.

Sadly I had a ring side seat at my parents divorce and NASTY custody battle over my sister (I was an adult but still very much in the middle). I had a front row seat for the visitation battle of my mom's new husband, I was a participant in my own divorce (actually I did my own divorce, I didn't hire a lawyer except to look over the papers that we drew up for custody and visitation) and I've been through DH's visitation and support battles too. Unfortunately, I have more experience in court than I'd ever like to.

Right now the plan is to go to the pre-trial hearing next week without a lawyer. It would cost us more to hire a lawyer than we would save in child support, I think. Of course I don't really know that because I don't know her actual income or the amount of business funds she has access too.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

Sorry you have had to deal with all of that. Have you considered going to law school? Sounds like you have a knack for it!

We won a tiny victory today. DH's ex filed her taxes first and claimed both boys (which DH is court ordered to be able to claim) and got her refund before we even filed. Of course our return was kicked back and we had to send in the court docs to prove we had a right to the deduction. The IRS posted our refund today crediting us for the deduction! I would love to know what happens next - do they go after her for the money they already paid her?

 

[springandmac]

I wanted to thank everybody for their hugs and advice.

My DH went to court today and his ex terminated her child support. As in she no longer wants DH to pay her anymore child support.

Needless to say we are thrilled.

 

[Disney1976]

I wanted to thank everybody for their hugs and advice.

My DH went to court today and his ex terminated her child support. As in she no longer wants DH to pay her anymore child support.

Needless to say we are thrilled.

I'm surprised the judge went for that! At least in Florida, a parent cannot generally waive the right to child support, because it is not theirs to waive -it belongs to the child, for the benefit of the child. I've seen it in certain circumstances, but there is usually a "trade-off" between the parties, i.e., no child support while the one party is recovering from surgery and is back to work in a year, etc., but in return, they will turn over their tax return for the year.


But hey, that's a victory for you! Keep in mind, however, matters concerning child support, visitation, and custody are what I always told my clients were "flex" issues, because they could always change, nothing is ever set in stone while under a court's jurisdiction.

Personally, I'm glad I'm not in family law anymore. It wears on you.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

I wanted to thank everybody for their hugs and advice.

My DH went to court today and his ex terminated her child support. As in she no longer wants DH to pay her anymore child support.

Needless to say we are thrilled.

Wow! Congrats. How old are the kids? Are they close to 18?

I'm surprised the judge went for that! At least in Florida, a parent cannot generally waive the right to child support, because it is not theirs to waive -it belongs to the child, for the benefit of the child. I've seen it in certain circumstances, but there is usually a "trade-off" between the parties, i.e., no child support while the one party is recovering from surgery and is back to work in a year, etc., but in return, they will turn over their tax return for the year.


But hey, that's a victory for you! Keep in mind, however, matters concerning child support, visitation, and custody are what I always told my clients were "flex" issues, because they could always change, nothing is ever set in stone while under a court's jurisdiction.

Personally, I'm glad I'm not in family law anymore. It wears on you.

I was thinking the same thing. It was my understanding that there is a minimum amount of child support per month that had to be paid by the non-custodial parent.

I guess the ex in this question doesn't want the courts or her ex knowing her financial business. Makes you wonder what is going on with that!