Oprah Debt Diet Show, Part II

[MrsPete]

That had to be an error. Even $130/week is less than $7,000/year.

Maybe not. When I get a cut, color and highlights, I spend $80 plus tip. Usually I get two trims and color touch-ups (about five weeks apart works for me) for about $35 plus tip before I need the "full service" again -- I need "full service" about three times per year. So, by looking at just one week, you could get a mistaken impression of the true cost.

 

[MrsPete]

And they seem so nice on the commercials. "Let us help you pay the unexpected bill".

This is why we have to teach our children to see the truth in advertising. My eight-year-old already says things like, "No payments for a year? How can they sell you something for no money? I don't know what theyr'e saying, but something's not true." That child has a business mind!

 

[MrsPete]

They will definitely still be in debt in 3 years. No matter how much they cut back, it isn't possible to repay 200K in debt on a 100K income in 3 years.

Will Oprah bail them out? I can't imagine that she would ever do that. That would totally undermine the whole point of the show. She would get horrendous publicity for doing that. I believe these folks are actually on their own.

No way could they do it in three years! The numbers don't add up. On the other hand, if they were to downsize their house (of course, I'm making some assumptions there), and if they were to seriously look into liquidating some assets (cars, toys, excess clothes -- on ebay or whatever), and if they were to take on second jobs, and if they were to start economizing in numerous ways . . . then they'd have a chance. But I don't see it happening in in three years, and I don't see it happening without serious sacrafice.

I don't think Oprah pays people's bills. I've heard something to that effect somewhere, and I agree that it'd be counterproductive.

 

[runwad]

And you all say Lisa didn't make any sacrifices this week , didn't you notice that she spent $49 on groceries

 

[MrsPete]

Her hair payments are more than our car payments. Her car payments are more than our house payment, etc. As long as she's drowning in debt, her hair is a luxury, I don't care what Oprah says.

Wow. That puts it into perspective, doesn't it? A car or hair appointments. Unbelievable.

 

[MrsPete]

I understand why many of you feel the Bradleys weren't a good choice for the show, but I don't completely agree. I think every family in debt shares some common issues that can be used as teaching points for the viewers. The Bradleys are using a foreign ATM on a daily basis, spending $275/year on fees from their bank. What Jean Chatzky forgot to mention is that there is probably a 2nd layer of ATM fees from the other banks for using their machines. So the true amount is probably at least double - $550 - or more. Maybe others don't go daily, but they may realize by watching this that they should sit down and add up what their ATM usage is costing them.

I agree that we can all learn something from various examples -- good or bad. I know that I personally am guilty of the ATM thing!

 

[MrsPete]

I don't care if she's African American, Irish, Australian or Martian for that matter...she can't afford to spend $7500 a year on her hair...she can't afford to spend $3750 either. Nowhere does it say in the U.S. Constitution that African American women (or any women for that matter) have the inalienable right to have a stylish hairdo regardless of the cost.

I am not African American, but I do understand that a nice hair appointment for them costs more than a nice hair appointment for me. If this woman really wants to save $$$, she could get one nice wig for what she's spending on one appointment -- a wig would last instead of growing out. She's going to have to think creatively to get out of this problem.

When my MIL lost her hair to chemotherapy, I was surprised at how nice her wigs were.

 

[zippeedee]

I have a close friend who is African American. It takes hours at the salon to straighten/perm her hair. Now that she and her husband have bought their house and had a baby, she wears it loose for a few days after a salon visit, then it goes back into a ponytail or up with a clip. She is really careful to never let her hair get wet and gets two-three weeks between salon visits.
Going to the salonn is a very social event, because she and her friends all spend so much time there. She knows how to stretch her money, and she always looks great.

I agree that even though these Oprah families are over the top, there are a lot of ideas and lessons to be learned from the show. They're also a great warning to anyone headed down that path.

 

[Nicolepa]

That's true. That $7,000 isn't necessarily evenly divided among all the weekly visits.

Well that was my point. I'm sure she's doing other things, but if the argument is that AA women have to get their hair done every week and she's shown it cost's $30. I even added in a $50 haircut EVERY month and I still only got $2K a year. She is definitly doing a lot more than getting her hair done.

 

[Nicolepa]

Their expenses have to be higher than that. Unless they just aren't counting their consumer debt at all........

I think this was just their current budget commitments, not their spending. So it was things like the piano payments, cell phone, mortgage etc. I do not think this included her spending (clothes etc). I got the impression is was just things that they had already purchased and had monthly payments on.

But the point was, she wasn't even willing to cut back enough to get out of the red!

 

[Free4Life11]

They are also in debt to a payday advance company that can charge over 300% in interest.

Now I may have mis-heard, but I believe they do the Direct Deposit Advances. That is offered through Wells Fargo. Basically you can get an "advance" of a direct deposit, up to $500. They charge you $2 for EVERY $20 and the next time you get a direct deposit, they immeditaly deduct however much you "advanced" plus the fee, so it's not as bad as the payday loan companies, but still it comes out to I think 120% APR.

I will admit that I have done it a *few* times but usually for small amounts. I do think that if you did it too often it could easily become a cycle. I almost think you're better off just using a credit card than getting the advance.

 

[littleEinsteins4]

just subscribing

 

[decaff38]

Had supper with my sisters last night and because we had a snow day on Friday, we all saw Oprah! Had a good discussion but all wondered about the car deal. What is with the BMW? and where is the 5th car? I personnally trim my own hair monthly and have been to the beauty school 2 times a year. Sister colors her hair at home. What is with the hair $$$$. I definately would not sleep knowing that there was $1.00 in collections. We all shop thrift and consignment stores and have a great time one upping each other with our great finds. My teenagers who used to be a little snobby even shop goodwill occationally. I drive a 1988 car and hubby drives a 1997. No car payments and don't want one. I use coupons on everything and compare sales, shop x-mas all year, use promo codes on line , etc... I is like my own financial game . Working on 0 debt in 2007 (not sure which month yet). These people are nuts!!! THey are not being realistic about anything.
Want to hear about the 2 teachers. Have a feeling they get it and understand the ramifications. Bet the next show focuses on their successes!!

 

[MEM]

DH and I watched the tape together and we both agreed, sadly, that there is not much hope for the couples to succeed. They all need a firm talking-to by a Dr. Phil and Lisa needs alot more than that. Did anyone else find it odd that while Lisa works as a case manager, she still has time to talk one out of four waking hours on her cell phone? Who is she talking to and why isn't she doing her job?


They are already cheating in the first week of the "diet" - surely that would be the one week you would have the most discipline! with millions of viewers watching to see how you do? Lisa continued to justify expenses they clearly cannot afford - I find it hard to believe that a shopaholic like her did not fill her DD closet with clothes - only one dress to wear to church? I don't believe it.

I am also concerned about the way the couples' budgets were trimmed -- "trimmed" is the operative word because they really needed budget "slashing". They need to cut their budgets to the bone in order to make any kind of progress.

The two couples shown on Friday acted as if it was a giant game. With regard to the third couple, the teachers, remember that they were the ones "days away from filing for bankruptcy" - I am concerned that they dropped out of sight.

With everything said, I'll still tune in on Friday to see how Lisa's behavior is "explained".

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I finally had a chance to play the show on Sunday.
Lisa Bradley is mentally ill. She has an incredibly low self-esteem and she is posturing by buying things and trying to fill her life by fixing her hair and talking on the cell phone.

Does she have a career or any volunteer work? What does she do other than spend 25% of her waking life on her cell phone, get her hair fixed, and shop?

The transfer of the shopping addiction to buying her daughter a dress is classic. ..much like what you see with some of the Gymboree Addicts and such that you are starting to see discussed in various magazines - Money did an article on the topic a couple of months ago. I don't even know how many times she said "but I've bought nothing for me." Somebody needs to call her on it and get her into therapy.

The other family. Whoa. I don't even know where to start. No roadmap, no clue. They want to give their daughters everything, but it has resulted in giving their daughters nothing. Their kids don't even have the sense of security of knowing that the two adults in charge of their life can come up with $10 to feed them next week.

I would think that having to borrow your 15 year old's babysitting money to pay for an emergency would shock you into -- something.
I guess not.

I mean, it comes down to not having money in your bank account to buy food to put in your kid's mouths, but then they whiiiinnnnnnneeee a bit and you buy them more clothes.

Until their priorities change, giving either of these families a financial plan is futile.

 

[Chicago526]

Comming to the (slight) defence of the Bradleys

First off, Debt Diet part II shows the changes the families made the first week. Anyone that's ever had a diet knows that the first week is the hardest. Habits are hard to break, things come up that you don't plan for (2 office b-days in one week = lots of cake, for example) and after the 4th day you just want a donut so bad that you'll kill for one. Budgeting, for the Bradley's, is like a 500 pound man trying his hardest not to stop at Krispe Kreame on the way to work. Some days are just going to be easier than others!

One key to sucessful dieting is allowing yourself a treat now and then. Yes, you're 100 pounds overweight, but if you don't have a piece of candy now and then, you're just going to cave one day and eat the whole dang box. Same thing with budgeting, you've got to allow a treat now and then or you're going to go nuts with the Master Card and wipe out any progress you've made.

As for the hair, I don't just think it's an "AA women NEED hair treatments". I think it could also be a cultral thing or a family tradition, to the extent that Lisa Bradely honestly thinks of hair as a "need" and not a "want". Her grandmother and mother most likely went to the salon every week and she just can't fathom not going herself. In her mind, it just isn't an option. It's going to take some time for her to really realize that she needs to cut back or find other options for her hair, or make sacrifices in other areas to allow her to continue these appointments.

Another point, some people said that this family needs to downsize the house and take the money and pay down some of their debt. This is NOT as easy as it sounds. If they are in a hot housing market, they may not be able to downsize because there is nothing to downsize TO (this would be a likely senario where I live). And even if they could, who's going to give them a mortgage with a credit rating like theirs? Plus, moving costs money they don't have, the kids would have to change schools, and whoe knows what else. It may come down to having to sell the house, but it should be a last ditch effort, not the first thing they try. If there is a way to fix their mess without having to sell the house, I say they try it first and see how they do.

There is definatly some deeper issues involved here, and a certain amount of denial about how bad off they really are, and I think they can and should work harder. But I say give this family a few more weeks before jumping all over them. They didn't get into this mess overnight and they won't get out of it overnight, either.

PS- Also, depending on where they live, $102,000 a year GROSS, puts you in the middle class. Around where I live, you can't afford a house in a decent school district on that kind of money. I should know, DH and I together make about that, and we can't even afford a TOWNHOME in the suburb I grew up in. We had to buy a house in a town that has one of the worst school districts in the state, and even that was a stretch. Between the mortgage and property taxes, $102,000 a year doesn't buy much in these parts, not if you don't want to be house poor.

 

[disneysteve]

Chicago526 - I think you made some good points. Change is never easy, whether it is diet, spending or anything else. But I was amazed that both families on the show, from day one, were trying to figure out how to cheat the plan. Folks, YOU volunteered for this! Lisa Bradley didn't report everything she actually spent on her spending log. The other family - the husband lied on his log so he could buy beer and not report it and the wife had a debit card she hadn't reported. I understand the need for an occasional treat, but these folks couldn't even go a couple of days without indulging themselves.

With dieting, we often recommend a reward treat for meeting goals. Maybe the experts on the show need to work in that type of advice. Let the families know that they can have something special when they've met certain goals so that they don't feel they have to sneak stuff.

As for downsizing, you are right about the costs involved. You can't just pick up and move. However, I don't see how they can keep the house in the long run. They said in show one that they knew they couldn't afford it when they bought it and their financial situation has only worsened since then. There is always somewhere cheaper to move. It might be a 1-bedroom apartment on the shady side of town. Or it might mean a longer commute to work. But there is always an option. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

It will be interesting to see what happens with these families. I hope Oprah follows them for a long time, not just a few months.

 

[Chicago526]

However, I don't see how they can keep the house in the long run.

I agree, they may not be able to keep the house in the long run, I just don't think the very first thing they should do is put the house on the market. In their situation, I'd try every other possible option first. Besides, if Lisa can't stop the hair appointments, how do you think selling her dream home is going to go over?

Just on a side note, does anyone know if Lisa works, or is she a SAHM? If she's a SAHM, the answer may lie in her going back to work.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I agree, they may not be able to keep the house in the long run, I just don't think the very first thing they should do is put the house on the market. In their situation, I'd try every other possible option first. Besides, if Lisa can't stop the hair appointments, how do you think selling her dream home is going to go over?

Just on a side note, does anyone know if Lisa works, or is she a SAHM? If she's a SAHM, the answer may lie in her going back to work.

I think that she works.

 

[ElizaB39]

I believe it was mentioned that she is a case manager (social worker?). One of the questions was how can she talk on the phone so much if she is supposed to be working?