Opinions wanted regarding a resume - Update Post #20

[mackeysmom]

Hi -

I'm working with a professional resume writer and was given the rough draft of the finished product today. I'm waiting to hear back from her regarding the questions I'm about to pose, but just curious as to what you guys thought.

Background - I went back to school a few years ago after working for nearly 20 years. Just took my "final" final today and have completed my courseload for an Associates Degree in Hotel Management.

Question #1: I did attend college MANY years ago, I did not graduate. I was 12 credits short of getting my Bachelor's in English. Although I didn't get a degree, I still think I would list the dates of attendance as well as what I had majored in. She only included my most recent schooling. What do you think?

Question #2: She included a job I held right out of school (working at a bank from 1991 - 1993). If I were preparing my own resume - I'd have been inclined to leave this job off. The two companies I worked for from 1993-2009 were the jobs that really had skills that are transferable to the industry I'm looking at now. (Heavy in customer service, management level, corporate trainer, etc.) Do you think it is necessary to include the entry-level bank job from 18 years ago?

What do you guys think? Part of me doesn't want to second guess her since this is her profession, but I also don't want to start my new job hunt with a resume that is less than perfect.

Thanks,
Laura

 

[Judy from Boise]

If you can add the schooling and still keep it to one page I would.....you can make space by leaving off the old job. If you can keep both on a single page, even better.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I've been reviewing resumes with DH (both his and his co-workers who were all lost their jobs in November). They are tech field (engineering) and their resumes are muli-page. Given the complex nature of what they did and what they are seeking, this is okay. I personally believe that going past 2 is overkill. But 2 is fine in some fields.


As for question #1, I guess I'd have to wonder why you would include it. Is it pertinent to what you are seeking. Do you have any other degree that will help you in what you are getting. In jobs where a degree is important, a degree unearned doesn't help a whole lot unless there is specific coursework/training that is pertinent.

I would guess she did not include it possibly for that reason. I know in DH's field, there are engineering folks who do not have engineering degrees. Having worked towards the degree, but not getting it--would not help them on their resume unless they were actively pursuing completing the degree.

Also--dates of attendance provides age information (or age assumptions) on your resume. So if you didn't get the degree, I might be inclined to leave it off for that reason especially if the coursework has little to do with what you are seeking.

I know that is clear as mud, but you want things on your resume that matter and anything you have on there, you have to ask yourself if your future employer needs to know that information on a first impression.


Question #2: I have always been able to customize my resumes depending on the field I was looking at. I have a television production resume and a customer service resume. (well, I had several computers ago ). When I am looking to either demonstrate that I have experience in a certain field, I will draw on all prior work history that I need to. Only when my resume is too full, do I begin to drop off the less important jobs or the extremely old ones.

I've been out of work a while since I am a SAHM. However, if I were to go for a customer service position, I would certainly need to draw on my several years experience from high school and college as that is when I did my customer service work.

If your resume is lacking in such activity, that could be why she is including an old position. So the 2-3 years of working in a bank suddenly became extremely pertinent.

Without knowing the remainder of your job history and its relevance to your current position, I can't say you should or should not drop it off. It seems that if you have 16 years of work experience, the bank add in is unnecessary.

I wonder if she is gearing it so that banks would flag your resume for review if they note that you had worked in a bank previously.

 

[mackeysmom]

If you can add the schooling and still keep it to one page I would.....you can make space by leaving off the old job. If you can keep both on a single page, even better.

I should have mentioned in my original post that this is a two-page resume, so the inclusion of the education or omitting the old job won't have any bearing on the final length.

We spoke at length regarding one-page vs. two-page, and based on the multiple positions I held at both of my last places of employment - the final product would have been so butchered and lacking in relevant informtion if I chopped it down to just one page.

 

[mackeysmom]

As for question #1, I guess I'd have to wonder why you would include it. Is it pertinent to what you are seeking. Do you have any other degree that will help you in what you are getting. In jobs where a degree is important, a degree unearned doesn't help a whole lot unless there is specific coursework/training that is pertinent.

I would guess she did not include it possibly for that reason. I know in DH's field, there are engineering folks who do not have engineering degrees. Having worked towards the degree, but not getting it--would not help them on their resume unless they were actively pursuing completing the degree.

Makes sense - I guess I just thought that it added some "weight" to an Associates Degree.

Question #2: I have always been able to customize my resumes depending on the field I was looking at. I have a television production resume and a customer service resume. (well, I had several computers ago ). When I am looking to either demonstrate that I have experience in a certain field, I will draw on all prior work history that I need to. Only when my resume is too full, do I begin to drop off the less important jobs or the extremely old ones.

I've been out of work a while since I am a SAHM. However, if I were to go for a customer service position, I would certainly need to draw on my several years experience from high school and college as that is when I did my customer service work.

If your resume is lacking in such activity, that could be why she is including an old position. So the 2-3 years of working in a bank suddenly became extremely pertinent.

I can't think of any way in which that job would be pertinent to a job I am seeking in the new industry. The 16+ years at the other two jobs hold so much more relevant experience. I'll wait to hear her reasoning, but I'm leaning towards dropping that.

Thanks for the input

 

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

I would think that the inclusion of the old job shows a history of personal integrity. Something that is becoming an asset in todays job market.

In one entry shows that you were able to pass a background check for the position and performed the duties required, which included having access to not only money, but the personal information of the customers.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I used to work in HR. My manager once said that college graduation dates should never be included on a resume because it can hint at a person's age (assuming they started college right out of high school). However, brand new college grads looking for an entry level position should include a graduation date.

I see your reason for wanting to include your prior stint in college. Rather than listing the dates, you could put the number of units you completed or say something like "Attended X University; Majored in English." Perhaps your resume writer can wordsmith it in a better way.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Makes sense - I guess I just thought that it added some "weight" to an Associates Degree.

I suppose it could. But it could also call attention that you didn't complete it by 1 semester. While what you did do is admirable, it may inadvertently reflect on you in a negative way. That may be what the resume writer is thinking.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Never include education when you have not completed the course work (and have no intention of doing so). If you were still enrolled and working on the English major, that would be different. As it stands, you dropped out.

Including the incomplete education can easily throw a negative tone on the resume which is something you must avoid at all costs.

Having a complete work history is important. The only time you leave work history off a resume is if you do not want that place of employment contacted as a reference.

 

[goofyernmost]

Makes sense - I guess I just thought that it added some "weight" to an Associates Degree.

Instead of "weight" it will add questions. The first thought that would have come to my mind would have been..."What? Twelve credits away from a Bach. Degree and yet you go for an Associates, why? The answer is not necessarily bad, but it just adds another dimension that is unnecessary to the process.

 

[BelleWDW]

I should have mentioned in my original post that this is a two-page resume, so the inclusion of the education or omitting the old job won't have any bearing on the final length.

We spoke at length regarding one-page vs. two-page, and based on the multiple positions I held at both of my last places of employment - the final product would have been so butchered and lacking in relevant informtion if I chopped it down to just one page.

I still think one page is better

Also for an older worker-its better to use the type of resume that doesnt list dates-cant remember what it is called

Sorry-in my book if you didnt finish the degree-its not a plus to list it

 

[anniemae]

I think the work history is important since you don't want any "gaps" in the resume. Otherwise, what were you doing for those two years 1991-1993. Even if the job is irrelivent to your current field, it was still a job you held and I'm sure you learned valuable skills there.

 

[Cindy B]

I would encourage you to take those four classes and get the Bachelors. In this job market, many many jobs are asking for a minimum Bachelors-- and think it could only take 3 months or so and you would be done.

 

[mackeysmom]

Thank you all very much for your responses. That's what I love about these boards - they give you a chance to look at things from a different perspective.

I probably won't hear back from my resume writer until after the holidays, but now I have a clearer idea of why she left some stuff in, but took some stuff off.

Now I just have to find a job ...

 

[Luv2Scrap]

I am learning some very interesting things in this thread. I did my resume myself, but I've been thinking I should have it done professionally when I earn my degree in 2011. I'll be 38, and I don't want that to stand in my way!!

 

[FireDancer]

Never include education when you have not completed the course work (and have no intention of doing so). If you were still enrolled and working on the English major, that would be different. As it stands, you dropped out.

Including the incomplete education can easily throw a negative tone on the resume which is something you must avoid at all costs.

Having a complete work history is important. The only time you leave work history off a resume is if you do not want that place of employment contacted as a reference.

I agree with this 100%. I would not include any school you didn't finish. It could easily be looked at as not following through on what you started.

The previous job does show skills that you will need in your previous job, you just have to highlight those parts of the job. If you worked with the public at the bank and will be doing so at the hotel that is relevant experience. Same goes with working within a team. If you are going to be leading people in the hotel try and remember a time at the bank when you took a leadership role to accomplish a common goal.

My resume is filled more with accomplishments that show skills rather than a list of things I know or can do. I am in the tech field and learned from experience that showing what you have accomplished is more valuable than listing skills that might or might not be useful.

For example:

Managed project consisting of hardware and software vendors, service providers, and senior management to evaluate, purchase, install, and support enterprise wide telephony solution

instead of:

Experience with Avaya PBX management.

The first shows not only that I know how to deal with a complex phone system but that I can work with a group, manage a project, and could get said project from blue sky to end user. While an employer might or might not need a new phone system they will need projects and vendors managed (in my field) so that is another advantage of the first example. I'm sure there is something similar you can put on there from your time at the bank.

Good luck with the new job.

 

[MrsPete]

I'd definitely include the almost-finished English degree college experience. SOME college is better than NO college . . . and since you went back and completed an associate's degree later, you are showing completion -- even if it wasn't the same degree that you began. Also, the English degree does apply to ANY job that you might get. Communication skills, the ability to word things clearly and concisely, a good grasp on research -- what's more important than those things in any job?

Be prepared to explain -- if asked in an interview -- why you didn't finish that first degree. There are plenty of good answers: I left to begin my family, I realized that my real career aspirations lay in a different direction.

Include the old job too. As someone else said, it shows length of employment and integrity.

I agree that you should stay with one page . . . but you can always adjust your margins, font, or other details to get these things onto one page.

Do you have high school on the resume? If so, drop that. Having attended college / graduated with an associate's degree, it's assumed that you have a high school diploma.

Are you listing references? If so, drop them and just use the phrase "References available on request". Have them ready, typed up and ready to hand over.

 

[MrsPete]

Managed project consisting of hardware and software vendors, service providers, and senior management to evaluate, purchase, install, and support enterprise wide telephony solution

instead of:

Experience with Avaya PBX management.

Excellent wording. You'd get an A+ in my classroom. I teach my students to use phrases, not complete sentences . . . to begin each phrase with a strong verb . . . and to emphasize the ability to work with a team.

 

[FireDancer]

Excellent wording. You'd get an A+ in my classroom. I teach my students to use phrases, not complete sentences . . . to begin each phrase with a strong verb . . . and to emphasize the ability to work with a team.

Sweet, I have an A+ to add to my resume

 

[mackeysmom]

Here's the reply I received from the resume writer:

Glad you are so happy with it. Yes, I did omit St. John's University because I wanted to make sure I was able to get all of the ABC Company and part of XYZ Company info on the first page. It's not a negative that you didn't earn the degree but I had to prioritize. Also, I felt the more recent NCCollege academic accomplishments were very impressive and wanted them to stand out.

I included Chase bank because it is a powerful financial institution although as you can see only left brief descriptions. I felt it was important to support the lack of hospitality employment with strong employment in other areas.

Thanks again for all of the input - it is very interesting to see how many different ways there are of looking/interpreting the same thing.

Happy Holidays to all,
Laura