Online booking didn't use banked points?

[Cabius]

Has anybody run into a situation like this before?

I have 398 points available in my September 2022 UY -- 198 banked from Sep '21, and 200 from Sep '22.

I have two reservations made totaling 318 points (159 each).

However, when I modified the dates at some point, DVC's online reservation used some of the unbanked points first, leaving me with 20 banked/expiring points left and taking a bunch of unbanked points instead.

MS is claiming that because my reservation is so soon (8 days), there is nothing they can do. They won't apply the unbanked points to this reservation, and they won't do anything else to make it good. I'm just expected to eat the loss.

Is this a totally newbie error on my part? Is there something I should've known or seen to prevent this?

It feels like this is DVC's screw-up and they need to make it right, but I don't know if I'm being unreasonable here.

 

[Cabius]

Update: After speaking with an MS agent and a supervisor, I've been told:

• I didn't do anything incorrectly when I modified the reservation, nor does the website UI call out the need to call and have points reallocated;
  
  
• Since we're within 31 days, they can't modify the reservation to fix it;
  
  
• They can't or won't transfer out my expiring points to replace them with un-expiring points in order to make good;
  
  
• This kind of thing happens semi-often, and they never make good; we're just expected to eat the loss

I've requested a callback from a senior supervisor, but have been told to expect the same answer no matter how many times I call.

 

[Sandisw]

Whichever reservation you made first would have used the banked points And the second one booked would have used both.

If your modification later adjusted the first trip that was booked with only banked points, and that modification resulted with points being returned because it was less points then it would have returned banked points.

In order to use them, you would have had to modify the other trip on your own, or by a call to MS to reallocate the banked points that were freed up.

The system, as noted, does not do that automatically because there would be no way for it to know if that is what an owner wants.

So, at this point, MS is correct that they can’t do anything because you’d end up with holding points for any reallocation now that it is so close.

 

[Cabius]

Thanks @Sandisw -- that explanation at least makes sense. When talking with MS, it sounded more like a glitch, but at least now I can understand the logic, which weirdly softens the blow tremendously.

 

[zavandor]

Whichever reservation you made first would have used the banked points And the second one booked would have used both.

If your modification later adjusted the first trip that was booked with only banked points, and that modification resulted with points being returned because it was less points then it would have returned banked points.

In order to use them, you would have had to modify the other trip on your own, or by a call to MS to reallocate the banked points that were freed up.

The system, as noted, does not do that automatically because there would be no way for it to know if that is what an owner wants.

So, at this point, MS is correct that they can’t do anything because you’d end up with holding points for any reallocation now that it is so close.

All correct, this is how the system works. However, I cannot see a scenario when an owner would want to keep banked points rather than current UY points. Automatically switching banked points for current UY points in existing reservations should be a no brainer.
If there are multiple resorts in the same membership, then a owner might prefer to keep (let's say) banked BWV points rather than getting current SSR points, but at least for the same resort, an auto-reallocations seems a no brainer to me.

 

[Sandisw]

All correct, this is how the system works. However, I cannot see a scenario when an owner would want to keep banked points rather than current UY points. Automatically switching banked points for current UY points in existing reservations should be a no brainer.
If there are multiple resorts in the same membership, then a owner might prefer to keep (let's say) banked BWV points rather than getting current SSR points, but at least for the same resort, an auto-reallocations seems a no brainer to me.

I would not want my points touched by MS and making that decision for me. There have been times where I have made the adjustments because of changes to my travel situation, even when it was the same resort points I was using.

Some people have more than one trip planned at a time as well, and how do they decide which reservation to reallocate the points? It may not always be the one that happens soonest.

There could be so many variables in play for individual owners that there would be no way for MS to know.

 

[Cabius]

I would not want my points touched by MS and making that decision for me. There have been times where I have made the adjustments because of changes to my travel situation, even when it was the same resort points I was using.

Some people have more than one trip planned at a time as well, and how do they decide which reservation to reallocate the points? It may not always be the one that happens soonest.

There could be so many variables in play for individual owners that there would be no way for MS to know.

This makes sense to me. I wouldn't expect the system to automatically make changes to a different reservation. Even if that's the outcome that I happen to want, it's not a change that I really initiated.

It would be great if the UX was a bit more helpful in terms of calling out that unbanked points are being returned.

But it was initially explained to me as basically a glitch, as if the system arbitrarily chose the wrong points. Now that I understand why it works this way, I'm frankly okay with it.

I doubt 20 points is really enough to rent out, so I'll likely end up gifting a single night to a friend and calling it a day.

Thanks again, @Sandisw, for the explanation.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

This makes sense to me. I wouldn't expect the system to automatically make changes to a different reservation. Even if that's the outcome that I happen to want, it's not a change that I really initiated.

It would be great if the UX was a bit more helpful in terms of calling out that unbanked points are being returned.

But it was initially explained to me as basically a glitch, as if the system arbitrarily chose the wrong points. Now that I understand why it works this way, I'm frankly okay with it.

I doubt 20 points is really enough to rent out, so I'll likely end up gifting a single night to a friend and calling it a day.

Thanks again, @Sandisw, for the explanation.

20 can be rented. LOTS of people look for 1 night in a studio but not everyone looking to rent more points want to do a single night.

 

[zavandor]

I would not want my points touched by MS and making that decision for me. There have been times where I have made the adjustments because of changes to my travel situation, even when it was the same resort points I was using.

Some people have more than one trip planned at a time as well, and how do they decide which reservation to reallocate the points? It may not always be the one that happens soonest.

There could be so many variables in play for individual owners that there would be no way for MS to know.

Disney IT messing with reservation is a scary thought, I'll admit.
However, as the OP demonstrates, not everyone is over their points and reservations as you and the most experienced members.
Simply switch banked points for current UY points in the next occurring reservation. This should be the best option for most people and if one prefers a different option can call and reallocate them. Which is something one must do anyway if the banked points are kept out. So nothing changes for someone who would have called, but people who wouldn't notice the banked points will save them instead.

A better website, that clearly shows the status of used points and allows to self serve reallocation would be better.

But the best option is what Hapimag does (an European timeshare, the first to use a point system).
Points are not removed from the account at the time of booking. When a reservation happens, older points are used first automatically. And points stay valid for 5 years.
The current banking and borrowing rules are quite convoluted and restrictive and cause points to go to waste more often than needed. I'd prefer more flexibility, but since it would impact Disney bottom line, it won't happen.

 

[Sandisw]

Disney IT messing with reservation is a scary thought, I'll admit.
However, as the OP demonstrates, not everyone is over their points and reservations as you and the most experienced members.
Simply switch banked points for current UY points in the next occurring reservation. This should be the best option for most people and if one prefers a different option can call and reallocate them. Which is something one must do anyway if the banked points are kept out. So nothing changes for someone who would have called, but people who wouldn't notice the banked points will save them instead.

A better website, that clearly shows the status of used points and allows to self serve reallocation would be better.

But the best option is what Hapimag does (an European timeshare, the first to use a point system).
Points are not removed from the account at the time of booking. When a reservation happens, older points are used first automatically. And points stay valid for 5 years.
The current banking and borrowing rules are quite convoluted and restrictive and cause points to go to waste more often than needed. I'd prefer more flexibility, but since it would impact Disney bottom line, it won't happen.

Why would any owner want to give DVC the right to modify reservations without their approval?

Right now, owners are the ones who need to be aware of the way things work.

When making or modifying a reservation there is a points summary button right there to click, before returning to dashboard that shows what was used, and what was not, including whether the points banked are left over.

Plus, the system is set up to allow owners to now reallocate points online without a phone call. And, with chat, that’s even easier.

No system is perfect but at least now, owners do not have to worry that someone is messing with our points unless we initiate that request.

 

[zavandor]

Why would any owner want to give DVC the right to modify reservations without their approval?

Right now, owners are the ones who need to be aware of the way things work.

When making or modifying a reservation there is a points summary button right there to click, before returning to dashboard that shows what was used, and what was not, including whether the points banked are left over.

Plus, the system is set up to allow owners to now reallocate points online without a phone call. And, with chat, that’s even easier.

No system is perfect but at least now, owners do not have to worry that someone is messing with our points unless we initiate that request.

Not really true. If one has stranded banked points they can modify the reservation and the points would be reallocated to use the banked points and free the used points.
What I'm saying is to extend this mechanism so that when one modifies a reservation and frees some banked points, the system would automatically perform that manual step to allocate the points to another reservation and free current UY points. It might even give an option to disable it, but I still don't understand why one would prefer baked points rather than current UY points.

 

[Sandisw]

Not really true. If one has stranded banked points they can modify the reservation and the points would be reallocated to use the banked points and free the used points.
What I'm saying is to extend this mechanism so that when one modifies a reservation and frees some banked points, the system would automatically perform that manual step to allocate the points to another reservation and free current UY points. It might even give an option to disable it, but I still don't understand why one would prefer baked points rather than current UY points.

Sometimes one trip is more certain than another trip? And it’s not always in the order of the calendar.

The system requires banked points to be used before transferred points, which may have a different expiration than the banked points. Imagine a swap occurs and now the transferred points are freed up? Those don’t show easily online either,


What happens when it was a 7 month booking and it used more than one resorts points? Which current UY points get freed up? The same as the banked points? Or the other ones?


There are situations that can happen that should only be up to the owner and not an automated feature or a CM.

 

[zavandor]

Sometimes one trip is more certain than another trip? And it’s not always in the order of the calendar.

The system requires banked points to be used before transferred points, which may have a different expiration than the banked points. Imagine a swap occurs and now the transferred points are freed up? Those don’t show easily online either,


What happens when it was a 7 month booking and it used more than one resorts points? Which current UY points get freed up? The same as the banked points? Or the other ones?


There are situations that can happen that should only be up to the owner and not an automated feature or a CM.

Apply same logic as what happens when editing a reservation. And the system will show what's going to do, so if you don't like it, then call to reallocate.
The problem the OP had was that the system didn't alert him they would have expiring banked points freed up. We can disagree the extent the system would automate a situation like this, can we at least agree an alert and maybe an option to make a change immediately would be useful?

 

[Sandisw]

Apply same logic as what happens when editing a reservation. And the system will show what's going to do, so if you don't like it, then call to reallocate.
The problem the OP had was that the system didn't alert him they would have expiring banked points freed up. We can disagree the extent the system would automate a situation like this, can we at least agree an alert and maybe an option to make a change immediately would be useful?

The point summary does that though when you are done booking. You simply have to review it and one would know.

But, if what you are saying is they should make it so an owner doesn’t even have to choose to review that summary and instead it pops up? Okay,

But beyond that, Owners should always be the ones who initiate the decisions regarding points and where they are reallocated if they want that to be done.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Disney IT messing with reservation is a scary thought, I'll admit.
However, as the OP demonstrates, not everyone is over their points and reservations as you and the most experienced members.
Simply switch banked points for current UY points in the next occurring reservation. This should be the best option for most people and if one prefers a different option can call and reallocate them. Which is something one must do anyway if the banked points are kept out. So nothing changes for someone who would have called, but people who wouldn't notice the banked points will save them instead.

A better website, that clearly shows the status of used points and allows to self serve reallocation would be better.

Oh - no thank you! MS/DVC has no business in messing with point allocations without being directed by the owner. For those who have a single contract it might make sense but there are owners with multiple contracts who it might not or never would. Also one doesn't have to call in to reallocate - that can be done online and the system does show what was used. Regarding that I would agree it could be made more visible as you do have to click on a link to verify.

So there is self serve reallocation - just improve the visibility. Some is just being mindful of your ownership too because all the information is there.

 

[CarolMN]

I would be very happy if they just showed the status of all the available points by contract on the dashboard - or a dashboard link to a page where that information was displayed. I want to know banked, borrowed, holding, current & transferred by contract, and not just a total for all points in a use year like they show now.

I don't want the system to ever actually do anything with my points that I didn't initiate. Just show me what the point status is - I will then decide what to do if I don't like what the status shows.

 

[zavandor]

I guess we'll have to take this as a demonstration of how little trust members have in the competence of Disney IT. You'd rather have people lose points than automate some operations according to simple rules.

 

[Sandisw]

I guess we'll have to take this as a demonstration of how little trust members have in the competence of Disney IT. You'd rather have people lose points than automate some operations according to simple rules.

It doesn’t have anything to do with IT. They could be the best system in the world.

Of course, no one wants to see anyone lose points. But, saying is a simple rule? It’s not.….

It’s giving the power of MS to make decisions on what to do with owners points by assuming they want points automatically reallocated into the next reservation, without the owner giving that directive to them. And, that’s a pretty big deal.

The online system makes it pretty easy for owners to reallocate points, check the points summary after booking, go into the manage points screen etc.

With the chat feature, you can even have them do it pretty quickly as well. So, owners do have tools available to them to manage their points and learn the system.

 

[BruinEd03]

I guess we'll have to take this as a demonstration of how little trust members have in the competence of Disney IT. You'd rather have people lose points than automate some operations according to simple rules.

I'd rather be in control of my points, as I may want to book trip 1 and use unbanked points, but then book trip 2 and use banked points simply because trip 2 is earlier than trip 1, or more certain than trip 1. Furthermore, I may choose to still use unbanked points for trip 1 simply because I don't care about 11 month window (e.g., they are from Hilton Head) while trip 2 may be from banked points for a trip where 11 month priority matters.

Either way, it should be up to the user to allocate the points. To the extent I'm not sure how they are allocated, I can chat with a cast member and have them allocated the way I want them to be allocated. A couple weeks ago, I combined a reservation and had them reallocate points in about 5 mins. via chat (it pulled from one contract, when I wanted it to pull from a different contract).

 

[supersnoop]

Perhaps the modify confirmation or even the dashboard needs to do a better job of showing the status of points so that people realize they have left over banked points that could be allocated to a different reservations.

Or, perhaps we need to recognize that this scenario is part of the design of the timeshare system and not an unintended consequence. Orphaned points keep the system working.