Okay, I've HAD it! Where did all this "sharing or not" business come from ANYWAY!

[MommyPoppins]

The new brochure says NOTHING about sharing. In fact it states that you can use your meal credits anyway you want. (not using child credits for adults though) For instance, how many people have shared some meals with their SO, so later in the week you can go to a 2 credit restaurant? If I want to try out more than x number of restaurants, what's wrong with my kids sharing a meal and my husband and I sharing a meal so we can go to another restaurant? I don't get it!

If we want to sit down and order more than 2 adult meals and our card says 2 adults, why can't we? Maybe we're using a adult credit for our children and later at another restaurant sharing a meal and using child credits? You can only use the amount of credits they give you, no matter what order you use them!

Can someone show me some threads where this began, and why it is all the sudden all there is to talk about? Just curious as to the situations where people were told no they can't share a meal. Thanks.

 

[Lewisc]

It started when some CM gave guests that information, right around the time Disney changed the brochure regarding child vs adult credits. I don't think Disney is going to be stopping guests who want to share BUT most of us think the purpose is to stop guests from banking "child" credits to purchase adult meals.

The brochure says kids must order from the kids menu. It doesn't say they get to use adult credits to order an adult meal to give to grandma. Disney doesn't, currently, separate credits and I can't see them letting you something that all but guarantees child credits will wind up being used to purchase adult meals. If the credits are ever separated then Disney might let them order adult menu items for adult credits.

The plan says it's non-transferable. Some posters and CMs interpret this to stop guests from treating others. 2A3C credits means you don't get to order 5A meals to treat the rest of your group.

The new brochure says NOTHING about sharing. In fact it states that you can use your meal credits anyway you want. (not using child credits for adults though) For instance, how many people have shared some meals with their SO, so later in the week you can go to a 2 credit restaurant? If I want to try out more than x number of restaurants, what's wrong with my kids sharing a meal and my husband and I sharing a meal so we can go to another restaurant? I don't get it!

If we want to sit down and order more than 2 adult meals and our card says 2 adults, why can't we? Maybe we're using a adult credit for our children and later at another restaurant sharing a meal and using child credits? You can only use the amount of credits they give you, no matter what order you use them!

Can someone show me some threads where this began, and why it is all the sudden all there is to talk about? Just curious as to the situations where people were told no they can't share a meal. Thanks.

 

[MommyPoppins]

It started when some CM gave guests that information, right around the time Disney changed the brochure regarding child vs adult credits. I don't think Disney is going to be stopping guests who want to share BUT

You've given us a lot of maybes, from your prior post it's clear you want to bank your kids credits so you can treat other family members. Two adults on the plan don't get to order 5 adult TS meals twice during your stay. You have 2A3C. You don't get to order 5A meals and pay out of pocket for your kids meals.

You made your plans when that "loophole" still exited.

Children have to order off the kids menu. You don't get to "pretend" they're using an adult credit and then give their meal to your parents.

You don't have a sharing issue, you have an issue with child/adult credits and with non-transferability portion of the plan.

Pay for an extra entree or two at Le Cellier and you should have enough food for your family.

According to Sammie's contacts famlies "banking" kids credits to treat non-meal plan guests is exactly what Disney is objecting to.

We aren't using a child credit as an adult. Why do you say that? If DH and I share a meal and my Mom and Dad share a meal, and my brother shares with my kids meals, or in any order, if we use 3 child and 3 adult credits, how are we using our childs credits? THAT'S why DH and I share meals at other times, to make those adult credits available. I don 't remember seeing in the brochure about using the credits for someone not on the plan, b ut I have to look again. BUt we AREN'T using child credits. We're sharing meals so they don't have to pay OOP for all their meals. If it's a rule it's a rule, you can't get around it. But I was wondering why it's a rule. What does it matter WHO eats the food, or how many credits you use at a time, you still can't use anymore credits than they give you.

 

[Lewisc]

I edited my post while you were composing your reply. I realized I wasn't answering your question. Sorry.

The plan brochure has always said it's not transferable. Disney provides credits to your family to provide meals for your family in exchange for your family staying in a WDW resort. Based on several posts it looks like guests who decide not to stay in a WDW resort or who don't purchase dining aren't allowed to use your credits. The question is if this comes under the non-transferability language.

Why might Disney care? The cost of 5A meals at Le Cellier might be higher than the cost of 2A meals at Le Cellier, 2A meals LTT and one adult meal at WCC. Guests will be stacking their credits at the more expensive restarants. You're going to wind up using all your credits. Disney enforces a non-transferabilty policy and you'll wind up paying cash for your parents meals.

Until Disney seperates credits into adult and child categories some of the policies may be designed to make it harder to bank child credits.

AFAIK you won't have any problem sharing at Le Cellier but you might only be able to use 2A3C credits. Buy an extra entree and you should be OK.

We aren't using a child credit as an adult. Why do you say that? If DH and I share a meal and my Mom and Dad share a meal, and my brother shares with my kids meals, or in any order, if we use 3 child and 3 adult credits, how are we using our childs credits? THAT'S why DH and I share meals at other times, to make those adult credits available. I don 't remember seeing in the brochure about using the credits for someone not on the plan, b ut I have to look again. BUt we AREN'T using child credits. We're sharing meals so they don't have to pay OOP for all their meals. If it's a rule it's a rule, you can't get around it. But I was wondering why it's a rule. What does it matter WHO eats the food, or how many credits you use at a time, you still can't use anymore credits than they give you.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

It has been consistantly reported that there is no problem sharing on the plan with the exception of buffets/character meals. However, it will just be a matter of time before the DDP is either eliminated or has a huge price increase as it was never Disney's intention to feed twice as many people because everyone is sharing their meals. Let's face it, everything Disney does is to turn a profit...that will not be the case with the DDP due to the loopholes in the plan.

 

[novdisneydreams]

I don't see how you would use more food or more of Disney's money if you share - If two adults on DDP share a meal at Kona Cafe for lunch, then share another at Le Cellier for dinner , two TS credits are used. In an alternate universe, if the same two adults eat TWO meals at Kona for lunch and skip dinner or eat CS or whatever , then two TS credits are used. Actually, Disney would probably make a tad more money that way because chances are there would have to be an additional beverage purchased OOP. Of course I see people's points about tipping extra if you share (and I sort of understand not treating people not on the DDP) but I don't really see what the problem would be with sharing meals among your own party (NOT using child credits for adult meals) . Two adult TS credits are two adult TS credits no matter how you use them, right? If I'm missing something please let me know... Of course I'm just curious. When we went last Nov DH and I always ordered two meals at each TS restaurant. I guess we're piggies - actually DH loves meat and I am a vegetarian so sharing wouldn't have worked. Of course when we go back again I wouldn't see the problem with letting my two DSs share a kids meal at TS or CS and then use their extra credit for a kids breakfast (CS Mickey waffles!) to share later ... But thats just me.

 

[crisi]

Well, one possibility is opportunity cost - rather than selling one meal to two people on the dining plan, they could use those seats to sell to people who aren't sharing.

But I think the real issue here is the possibility of "working the system" If my husband and I are on the plan, share meals, and at the end of our seven day trip, eat two signature meals, five dinners, and three sit down lunches on 14 TS credits - using our CS credits for breakfast, no one really cares. If my girlfriend and her husband, who are staying off site, dine with us every night and we are feeding four - then Disney cares - or that is the belief held by some here.

 

[JimMIA]

What does it matter WHO eats the food, or how many credits you use at a time, you still can't use anymore credits than they give you.

I had the same attitude until it was 'splained to me. The way I understand it now, there are two things Disney wants to prohibit.

One is using cheap child credits for adults, which is possible because Disney currently has no way to distinguish between the two. Basically, they know what they sold you, but they can't track As and Cs seperately. They are in the process of fixing that computer glitch now.

The other thing they are in the process of stopping is what I call "treating." The rationale is they don't sell us meal credits, they sell us a package: our room at rack rates, our ticket, and our meal credits.

It's a package, it's for us, and no part of it is supposed to be split off from the package for people not participating. People who aren't participating are not jumping thru the hoops we are to get the benefit. As you said in another post, your folks can't afford to pay rack rates to get the plan -- that's exactly the point for Disney. It's a package -- you can't take out the parts you don't like by getting a discounted room or staying offsite.

To make matters worse, Disney has done such a sloppy job with the implementation of DDP, and such an awful job of explaining it, that many good people simply don't understand what they're getting.

 

[JimMIA]

The sharing issue leads to some really convoluted situations when we see it in practice.

At this precise moment in time (and it could change in an instant), Disney apparently has no problem with sharing among people IN THE DDP. So, you'll see posts like the couple who blissfully did 16 TSs in EIGHT days by sharing one adult TS at each meal. They had a ball, and will tell you flat-out that there is no problem with sharing on DDP...and that those who say there is are only "speculating."

But they'd only be half-right. The truth seems to be that you and DH can probably share to your heart's content, and if you use your saved credits to buy yourselves a Signature dinner, everybody's happy. But if you try to use those very same credits to "treat" someone not on the plan, you'll probably be told no.

 

[JimMIA]

I don't see how you would use more food or more of Disney's money if you share - If two adults on DDP share a meal at Kona Cafe for lunch, then share another at Le Cellier for dinner , two TS credits are used. In an alternate universe, if the same two adults eat TWO meals at Kona for lunch and skip dinner or eat CS or whatever , then two TS credits are used. Actually, Disney would probably make a tad more money that way because chances are there would have to be an additional beverage purchased OOP. Of course I see people's points about tipping extra if you share (and I sort of understand not treating people not on the DDP) but I don't really see what the problem would be with sharing meals among your own party (NOT using child credits for adult meals) . Two adult TS credits are two adult TS credits no matter how you use them, right? If I'm missing something please let me know... Of course I'm just curious. When we went last Nov DH and I always ordered two meals at each TS restaurant. I guess we're piggies - actually DH loves meat and I am a vegetarian so sharing wouldn't have worked. Of course when we go back again I wouldn't see the problem with letting my two DSs share a kids meal at TS or CS and then use their extra credit for a kids breakfast (CS Mickey waffles!) to share later ... But thats just me.

As it currently stands, you should not have a problem sharing in this fashion -- among members of your party, ALL of whom are on the DDP, using the appropriate category of credit (i.e. an A for an adult meal).

One of the concerns is, if Disney can't find a way to stop what they don't want, they will stop ALL sharing...including this.

 

[LizinSTL]

It has been consistantly reported that there is no problem sharing on the plan with the exception of buffets/character meals. However, it will just be a matter of time before the DDP is either eliminated or has a huge price increase as it was never Disney's intention to feed twice as many people because everyone is sharing their meals. Let's face it, everything Disney does is to turn a profit...that will not be the case with the DDP due to the loopholes in the plan.

I really doubt Disney is losing money on the DDP as it is currently priced and used. You are speculating that there will be a change. But it's only speculation. Disney is making way more money on DDP guests than they are on cash guests. DDP gives you the illusion of value (paid for or free). You think WOW, this CS meal is free because my character breakfast paid for our daily cost of the plan.... so you are ok with spending $30 on those photos or dropping $20 at the arcade that night. Plus you don't want to go off-site to eat at the Dixie Stampede or Arabian nights because you've already "paid" for your meals- that's more money to Disney every time a guest decides to stay on site rather than go off-site.

 

[Pedler]

I had the same attitude until it was 'splained to me. The way I understand it now, there are two things Disney wants to prohibit.

One is using cheap child credits for adults, which is possible because Disney currently has no way to distinguish between the two. Basically, they know what they sold you, but they can't track As and Cs seperately. They are in the process of fixing that computer glitch now.

The other thing they are in the process of stopping is what I call "treating." The rationale is they don't sell us meal credits, they sell us a package: our room at rack rates, our ticket, and our meal credits.

It's a package, it's for us, and no part of it is supposed to be split off from the package for people not participating. People who aren't participating are not jumping thru the hoops we are to get the benefit. As you said in another post, your folks can't afford to pay rack rates to get the plan -- that's exactly the point for Disney. It's a package -- you can't take out the parts you don't like by getting a discounted room or staying offsite.

That is an excellent way to explain it. It is a package and the components are meant to be used by the original purchasers.

An analogy to this would be when you purchase a new computer sometimes it will come preloaded with software such as a version of MS Office or financial software. This software is under a special license as part of the package. You can not turn around and resell or give that software away to someone else. (O.K. if you had the install disks you could but it would be violating the software license agreement.)

 

[Pedler]

We aren't using a child credit as an adult. Why do you say that? If DH and I share a meal and my Mom and Dad share a meal, and my brother shares with my kids meals, or in any order, if we use 3 child and 3 adult credits, how are we using our childs credits? THAT'S why DH and I share meals at other times, to make those adult credits available. I don 't remember seeing in the brochure about using the credits for someone not on the plan, b ut I have to look again. BUt we AREN'T using child credits. We're sharing meals so they don't have to pay OOP for all their meals. If it's a rule it's a rule, you can't get around it. But I was wondering why it's a rule. What does it matter WHO eats the food, or how many credits you use at a time, you still can't use anymore credits than they give you.

One of the primary goals of any restaurant is to try to figure out how to increase the amount of money spent per table. Sharing reduces the amount of money spent table. If a place isn't filled to capacity on a regular basis then they most likely would allow sharing as a means to attrack people and a group sharing is spending more per table than an empty table. But if they are consistently able to fill tables then you start to look at ways to increase the spending by the people at the table. Stopping sharing is one way to do that.

So far there have only been sketchy reports back on the whole sharing thing and it looks like it is allowed with the usual exceptions. Since Disney has started to view the dinning via the dinning plan not as a entity unto itself but a mean to get people to stay on site and spend more money on site they may not take a narrow look at the situation and try to increase per table spending by eliminating sharing. On the other hand I don't think they really want people not on the dinning plan to eat food paid for with dinning plan credits. It circumvents the goal of getting everyone staying on site using the dinning plan. Your situation is an example of this. What they really want is for your parents and brother to stay on site as part of a package. Thats the goal. They may at some point try to devise away to prevent that type of situation. I know it seems harsh to think the mouse would not want you sharing to help your parents and brother enjoy WDW when they may not be otherwise but remember beneath the fascade the mouse has the one goal of maximizing profit. That is why it would not suprise me to see more perks added at some point for on site guests that are part of a package.

Remember in Disney's mind it isn't enough that someone is coming to the parks for a few days. They want every single vacation dollar spent and all of the changes in the last year or so are devised to help accomplish that goal.

 

[JimMIA]

I really doubt Disney is losing money on the DDP as it is currently priced and used.

I agree with you, but I don't think that's the issue. The issue, for Disney, is that they created a marketing program for specific purposes (get people to stay onsite and eat onsite) and it's being used in ways they didn't anticipate.

You are speculating that there will be a change. But it's only speculation.

It's actually not speculation, but it's a confusing picture to decipher from trip reports on an Internet board. If you read reports carefully, you will see a clear pattern -- not of DIS rumors, but of surprisingly even Disney enforcement in two areas...both within the last 7-10 days.

One is both the brochure change and enforcement of the "no C credit for A meal" concept. The other is denying the useage of more adult credits than shown on the card to "treat" people who are not on the plan.

If you and SO, both on the meal plan, want to share a meal -- for whatever reason -- Disney is cool with that (for now). So you'll see reports where people are doing it successfully.

That does not mean a tightening is not occurring or is speculative. It just means they're not tightening this particular aspect of sharing...yet. Hopefully, they won't feel a need to.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Disney is making way more money on DDP guests than they are on cash guests.

Isn't this speculation on your part as well? I disagree with you as I feel the true intention of the plan was to have people pretty much "eat themselves sick" the first couple of days, grow tired of all the food, and then leave the parks with unused credits. However, a wrench was thrown in the works once people started figuring out that instead of ordering two entrees for two people (and being too full for appetizers/desserts), they could order one "entire" meal and share.

Also, what about the boatloads of people that are pushing this even further by sharing adult meals using child credits? As far as making extra money off DDP participants, I seriously doubt that is the case. Just because people are saving money on the cost of food, it doesn't mean they're going to spend more on souvenirs, etc. For goodness sakes, they're going to spend the whole trip in WDW's most expensive restaurants...when will they have time to shop?

One last point, the restaurants are going to be able to turn tables around a lot quicker with cash paying customers that order an entree, beverage, and then go their merry way vs. people on the DDP that linger over beverages/appetizers/entrees/desserts. Especially when everyone's trying to decide who's sharing with who, who's turn is it to pick the entree, etc. I really don't see how Disney can continue with the plan as it is currently operating.

 

[crisi]

Sorry, I meant to quote this and ended up editing....my original comments were something along the lines of:

I'm not sure Disney makes money on the DDP - or rather, I don't think Disney RESTAURANTS make money on it. We've been dining table service at Disney for a decade or longer, never traveled during busy times, and were regularly denied "walk up" to restaurants - the restuarants weren't sitting empty. Prior to the dining plan, we'd budget $100 a day for spending money - food and souvies - for two adults - and I'm not a souvie person, its almost all food. Restaurant board threads of the time indicated we might be on the high end, but we weren't unusual - there were other people budgeting $50 a day or more - some budgeting $100 a day per person (I suspect wine may have been involved).

We haven't had the opportunity to use the DDP (DVC members and haven't traveled yet while its available), and will probably continue to use the DDE as it fits our dining style better. If we used the DDP, we might pay OOP for a meal or two to fit in some signature places, and increase our cost per day, but I suspect that's not usual behavior.

DDP gives you the illusion of value (paid for or free). You think WOW, this CS meal is free because my character breakfast paid for our daily cost of the plan.... so you are ok with spending $30 on those photos or dropping $20 at the arcade that night.

In a nutshell, this is why the DDP increases revenue for probably 80-90% of guests that use it. They pack rack (or close to it) for a room and package, and have more "cash in hand" when they hit the shops.

But for the remaining 10-20% - they are working it as a loss leader. These are the folks that are using child credits for adult meals, are sharing with folks not on the plan. Those people are wise to corporate manipulation (save here, spend there), they aren't using their "savings" on other things (they are the ones buying last years merchandise out at the outlet mall).

There is a book very popular with CEOs and business people called Angel Customers, Demon Customers. The idea is that you want to lavish service on your Angel Customers - they are the ones they buy things with margin, shop regularly, but aren't using your facilities 'unnecessarily' - and you want to get rid of the Demon Customers - those that buy your loss leaders and work the system (occationally to the point of fraud). Its enlightening to realize that corporate exec's are "on to" the Fat Wallet set - and trying to figure out how to keep them out of the store. There is, of course, a huge middle as well.

It appears that the rumored changes are trying to address the 10-20% of customers that are "demons."

 

[melomouse]

....
Restaurant board threads pre dining plan indicated we might have been on the high end, but that there were many others spending as much or more - with some people's daily food budget being $100 a day per person (I'd imagine wine might be involved). Regular table service couples budgeted at least $75 per day several years ago.....

Your comments are intelligent and reflective of your years of experience, crisi. TY!

Highlights mine on the wine being involved - lately I have been thinking wine needs to be involved for me if I discuss this DDP any longer!!

 

[Sammie]

I think the point some are missing, is Sharing is not Wrong. Let me get that out of the way, first thing. And if anyone misquotes me and says I said it was wrong, I am going to have a come apart and I don't really want to.

However if guests are sharing and turning 6TS meals purchased into 12TS eaten by sharing they are taken up space in a 6 restaurants that might need those spaces for people not on the DDP. So in that sense they are losing money.

If the DDP is changing the way guest eat from their normal habits prior to the DDP by eating more TS than they ever did prior to the plan, Disney could have a problem with that. Not saying anyone is wrong, but it might not be what Disney had in mind for the plan.

And regardless of how a guest "wants" to use it, Disney gets to decide how they "want" it used.

For example we have a plan, not free, for August for 5 nights. We only have4 TS booked, one being a Signature. This is all we will do and eat our CS each day and our snacks and we are still hungry, seriously doubt it, we will buy a few things out of pocket. I truly feel Disney wanted the plan used in this manner versus stretching it to cover 2 TS, 2CS and 1 snack per day when one 1TS, possibly even one CS is being used.

I do not think Disney has any problem with the liberal use of CS meals, but definitely are having a problem with the use of the TS meals especially if those meals are feeding someone not even on the plan. For one thing they did not get the room and ticket revenue from that person.

 

[LizinSTL]

I think the point some are missing, is Sharing is not Wrong. Let me get that out of the way, first thing. And if anyone misquotes me and says I said it was wrong, I am going to have a come apart and I don't really want to.

However if guests are sharing and turning 6TS meals purchased into 12TS eaten by sharing they are taken up space in a 6 restaurants that might need those spaces for people not on the DDP. So in that sense they are losing money.

If the DDP is changing the way guest eat from their normal habits prior to the DDP by eating more TS than they ever did prior to the plan, Disney could have a problem with that. Not saying anyone is wrong, but it might not be what Disney had in mind for the plan.

And regardless of how a guest "wants" to use it, Disney gets to decide how they "want" it used.

For example we have a plan, not free, for August for 5 nights. We only have4 TS booked, one being a Signature. This is all we will do and eat our CS each day and our snacks and we are still hungry, seriously doubt it, we will buy a few things out of pocket. I truly feel Disney wanted the plan used in this manner versus stretching it to cover 2 TS, 2CS and 1 snack per day when one 1TS, possibly even one CS is being used.

I do not think Disney has any problem with the liberal use of CS meals, but definitely are having a problem with the use of the TS meals especially if those meals are feeding someone not even on the plan. For one thing they did not get the room and ticket revenue from that person.

And I really think that the vast majority of DDP guests are using it like you plan to (and how we used it in June). We had 7 nights, we had 7 TS meals. We each used 1 TS credit at each sit down meal and we just didn't order what we didn't want. We shared 2 desserts at 50s PT cafe rather than order the 4 we could have. We had water only to drink a couple times. We still didn't "lose" on the plan. IF you dine at the allotted TS restaurants, you'll at a minimum, break even. I think that most people are doing that. Some are sharing, stretching, paying OOP, etc to get more from the ddp, but just because it seems like "everyone" on the Dis is doing it, doesn't mean that everyone at Disney is doing it.

I agree that it's the TS meals that may have Disney re-thinking things, not the CS credits. But this "sharing" is cheating garbage is nuts. (not suggesting that you said that! LOL) Sharing is sharing. It's a good thing. We encourage our children to share with one another. Why make it criminal? If you are sharing ALL of your meals to stretch them out and get extra TS meals, then you are working too hard at your vacation. Relax, have fun, eat some good food, and ride a couple rides!

 

[aubriee]

I'm one of the ones who posted that a dining CM told me we could not share. I had not asked. When I called to add my ex to our ADRs (he's also on our DDP, so three adults all on the DDP) and to add another ADR the CM made a point of asking me if I knew how the dining plan worked as I had more ADRs than I had credits. I told her I was aware of that and was paying OOP for the two dinner shows (HHDR and Spirit of Aloha) as well as for two character breakfasts. She then said I still had more TS than I had TS credits and asked me if I wanted her to cancel two. I told her it was still not a problem as the three of us would be sharing two TS at two meals (three adults, not kids). She immediately and without hestitation said we would not be able to do that as sharing at TS restaraunts was no longer going to be allowed. I asked her since when, as my mom and I shared a couple of meals just this past May. She said they had just received the information a few days prior and then again tried to get me to cancel a couple of my ADRs. I refused, deciding that since we weren't going until the last week of free dining that more reports would be in by that time and we could decide then. We are going to try to share and if we can't, we'll just pay OOP for a few more meals. No problem and we're prepared either way!

The same day I posted, someone else posted they had been told the exact same thing by a different CM. My CM's name was Anna Claire or Anna Marie Claire or something like that. The other poster said the CM that told her the same thing was a male. So apparently the information is going around with at least some of the dining CMs. Again I didn't even ask about sharing, the CM herself brought it up when I was making some changes to my ADRs.