OK, now I've heard it all!! Taxpayers to pay for inmate's sex-change?

[Kim&Chris]

Sorry I do not know how to post whole articles, so I'll post the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/state-pay-prison-inmates-sex-change/story?id=9178368

If the state pays for this operation, then I don't know what to say. Good, hard-working people are losing their homes, jobs, health coverage, yet there is a possibility this will be paid for? Infuriating.

Not to mention the money wasted for all the lawsuits and time in court.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Sorry I do not know how to post whole articles, so I'll post the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/state-pay-prison-inmates-sex-change/story?id=9178368

If the state pays for this operation, then I don't know what to say. Good, hard-working people are losing their homes, jobs, health coverage, yet there is a possibility this will be paid for? Infuriating.

Not to mention the money wasted for all the lawsuits and time in court.

Well, the inmate can try, but it looks like even the trying is going to be shut down. So I wouldn't become too outraged over this.

Citing strained state budgets, Massachusetts State Senator Bruce Tarr has introduced a bill that, if passed, would prevent any "public funds" from being "expended for the purpose of sex reassignment surgery for any person in the custody of any jail or prison." The law would also extend to other treatments for inmates with gender disorders.

A similar law was passed in Milwaukee several years ago.

I can't say that I like the blanket approach they're taking. Let's say a woman (who used to be a man 10 years ago) gets arrested for something they didn't do. Does that woman now have to forgo her daily estrogen treatments for six months because the law disallowed her the medication that her insurance was already paying for? (She may have lost her job AND her insurance after being arrested). You ARE innocent until proven guilty, after all.

But I am kind of flabbergasted that inmates were allowed decide to undertake "gender reassignment" while in prison and that these treatments were even being paid for with public money. Going to jail means you lose your rights. Period. You're entitled to humane medical care treatment if you get sick, get shanked or break a limb, but that should be the extent of it.

I suspect this case will be the pebble in the pool that gets similar bills started in many state's houses. This is sort of like a female prisoner getting breast implants at the State's expense because her small bosom made her feel inferior and that's why she shot the clerk while she was stealing the money.

 

[npmommie]

This is nothing new.
I used to work as an RN in a prison years and years ago. saw it in action.

but now the state is broke

 

[Kim&Chris]

This is nothing new.
I used to work as an RN in a prison years and years ago. saw it in action.

but now the state is broke

Wow, I think this is the first time I've ever heard of this.

 

[vroomagain]

I am in agreement with the Dr. The state shouldn't get to decide what kind of treatment is medically necessary.

 

[mhsjax]

I am in agreement with the Dr. The state shouldn't get to decide what kind of treatment is medically necessary.

I am sorry, but sex change surgeries ARE NOT medically necessary. So what is they commit suicide over it or castration. WHO CARES. THey shouldn't have committed the crime and then they could be out and pay for it themselves. Which brings me to another point. Do people on the outside get free sex changes. I don't think so.

 

[vroomagain]

I can't determine if it is "necessary" because I am not an expert on Trans issues nor a doctor- are you?

I am sorry, but sex change surgeries ARE NOT medically necessary. So what is they commit suicide over it or castration. WHO CARES. THey shouldn't have committed the crime and then they could be out and pay for it themselves. Which brings me to another point. Do people on the outside get free sex changes. I don't think so.

So you are saying that inmates with depression or other mental diseases should not be treated because it is not medically unnecessary?

I don't care to debate what is "necessary" because that is subjective but I don't think the state should be playing the role of Doctor.

 

[mhsjax]

I can't determine if it is "necessary" because I am not an expert on Trans issues nor a doctor- are you?




So you are saying that inmates with depression or other mental diseases should not be treated because it is not medically unnecessary?

I don't care to debate what is "necessary" because that is subjective but I don't think the state should be playing the role of Doctor.

I am saying that a sex change isn't medically necessary, and I don't think it takes a Dr to figure that out. If you can tell me the name of anyone that has died because of not getting a sex change operation then I will stand corrected. And depression because of not being able to get an operation can be treated, just not by giving them the operation. I hope you are not saying that because they are depressed about it then we should give into it. I would love to have some plastic surgery, maybe if I get depressed the state will pay for it? Would you be ok with that?

 

[Kim&Chris]

I am saying that a sex change isn't medically necessary, and I don't think it takes a Dr to figure that out. If you can tell me the name of anyone that has died because of not getting a sex change operation then I will stand corrected. And depression because of not being able to get an operation can be treated, just not by giving them the operation. I hope you are not saying that because they are depressed about it then we should give into it. I would love to have some plastic surgery, maybe if I get depressed the state will pay for it? Would you be ok with that?

I agree with you. A sex-change operation is NOT medically necessary, so the taxpayer should have no obligation to foot the bill. Let the convict's family, or the ACLU, pay for it.

 

[vroomagain]

I am saying that a sex change isn't medically necessary, and I don't think it takes a Dr to figure that out. If you can tell me the name of anyone that has died because of not getting a sex change operation then I will stand corrected. And depression because of not being able to get an operation can be treated, just not by giving them the operation. I hope you are not saying that because they are depressed about it then we should give into it. I would love to have some plastic surgery, maybe if I get depressed the state will pay for it? Would you be ok with that?

The thing is that there are a lot of medical conditions that we treat inmates for that don't cause death. Psychological diseases can be just as crippling to a human's production as a physical illness. Even most physical illnesses won't lead to death but we treat them in inmates because they provide discomfort. So if we let the state decide on how to treat inmates where should the state draw the line?

Also I don't think your example would work. From what I understand people with gender issues undergo severe counseling for years before a Dr. will do the surgery. So if for years you are severely depressed or have other psychological issues that counseling and medication will not fix and they can attribute it to an ugly nose than yes would i support fixing the problem instead of trying to treat the symptoms.

 

[FireDancer]

I am saying that a sex change isn't medically necessary, and I don't think it takes a Dr to figure that out. If you can tell me the name of anyone that has died because of not getting a sex change operation then I will stand corrected. And depression because of not being able to get an operation can be treated, just not by giving them the operation. I hope you are not saying that because they are depressed about it then we should give into it. I would love to have some plastic surgery, maybe if I get depressed the state will pay for it? Would you be ok with that?

I agree. Ultimately we are in control of whether or not we commit crimes. If you do not you won't have to worry about the state determining your treatment. If you really want to change genders that is fine with me, just don't commit a crime and you are free to do so. Unfortunately when you are convicted of a crime you lose some of the freedoms we enjoy as Americans and one of them should be unnecessary medical procedures.

I do agree with those that say the state shouldn't decide what is and isn't medically necessary. They should put together a panel of doctors to determine what is and what is not medically necessary. The state can then make a law that they will not pay for anything that the panel decides is not medically necessary.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I can't determine if it is "necessary" because I am not an expert on Trans issues nor a doctor- are you?

If I'm not mistaken, a sexual reassignment takes YEARS to pull off; sometimes even a decade. There's counselling, living as the other gender for a certain period of time, more counselling, years of drugs (estrogen or testosterone), and more counselling throughout the process. It's lots of time, lots of money, lots of pain and anguish to make the change. This is something that a human being really and truly has to invest themselves in. It's not something that is done on a whim.

Now bring a person convicted of a crime into the mix who hasn't gone through all that.

The guy in the article has a total Silence of the Lambs thing going on for me. I wonder if he's trying to get his reassignment in jail because he may not have been approved for a sexual reassignment outside because of psychological issues.

I guess what I'm saying is that people who have invested themselves so much in gender reassignment aren't typically going to be the kinds of people who commit crimes; at least not the crimes that physically hurt other people. They may be embezzelers to get the money they need? Or maybe they become violent at someone who expresses violence to them?

That's why I'm questioning why anyone - the state or a panel of doctors - would approve of sexual reassignment. Especially if the inmate in question has a history of hurting other people. I could be wrong but, unless and until I have more information to go on, I have to opine that gender-reassignment shouldn't be paid for by the state for convicted criminals who are going to be spending 10 or 20 years (or life) behind bars.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I went back and reread the article and followed a few links to a previous article.

Born as Robert, Kosilek is serving a life sentence for murdering his wife, Cheryl, in 1990.

A convicted murderer who is seeking a taxpayer-funded sex-change operation has asked a judge to order Massachusetts prison officials to provide electrolysis treatments.

A lawyer for Michelle Kosilek (KOH'-sih-leck) argued Monday that having facial hair is "intensely personally stressful to her."

A lawyer for the Massachusetts Department of Correction says Kosilek has had significant hair removal already through laser treatments and seven earlier electrolysis treatments.

U.S. District Judge Mark Wolf says he'll rule on the electrolysis request Wednesday.

Now named Michelle, Kosilek has been living as a woman in an all-male prison in Norfolk.

Prison officials say the sex change would pose security problems.

Now comes the article in the OP.

A Massachusetts inmate recently lost a bid for state-funded electrolysis treatments. But the prisoner, who has changed names from Robert to Michelle Kosilek, is still pursuing his case to have the state of Massachusetts pay for a sex-change operation in order to complete a gender transformation that started almost 20 years ago.

Chaz Bono opens up about changing genders and his relationship.That puts Kosilek squarely in the middle of a debate over just what kind of medical care prisoners are entitled to, especially in an era of strained state budgets.

When Cheryl Kosilek's strangled body was found dumped in the back seat of a car in 1990, focus immediately turned to her husband Robert. Robert Kosilek had fled the state but was arrested in upstate New York and eventually returned to face charges in his wife's murder.

By the time Kosilek entered the courtroom for his trial, his hair was shoulder length. He dressed as a woman and his name was Michelle.

I'm sorry, but this man was convicted of murdering another human being. There's no mention in the story about any appeals to this conviction so I have to presume that he committed the murder. I don't get the point of allowing him to "feel good about himself" while he spends the rest of his life in prison. Nor do I approve of state funds, that could be spent on the citizens in that area who don't have medical insurance, being invested on criminal's optional surgery when he's going to die in prison without being any kind of contributor to society.

Perhaps if medical schools were using him as a test subject so they could perfect their skills at helping non-criminal people make the change, that might be better. But it shouldn't be at a cost to the citizens of that state.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

My mom was a jail nurse for 25 years. If the sex-change was already in process, the county had to continue with the treatments. For example, if the inmate had already started receiving hormone injections, the county had to continue giving them. Inmates would not be able to initiate a sex-change while in jail.

 

[npmommie]

I do agree with those that say the state shouldn't decide what is and isn't medically necessary.

They already do to a certain extent. example....... hypothetical.....I have a patient on mass health who I prescribe a certain med to, the state decides it won't pay for x drug only y drug, so I must prescribe y drug, or present my case as to why they should pay for x drug, and presenting my case involves reams of paperwork.
frustrating at times.

 

[FireDancer]

They already do to a certain extent. example....... hypothetical.....I have a patient on mass health who I prescribe a certain med to, the state decides it won't pay for x drug only y drug, so I must prescribe y drug, or present my case as to why they should pay for x drug, and presenting my case involves reams of paperwork.
frustrating at times.

No argument from me. The insurance companies play God with us more than government does. Of course if any insurance company declines a prescription that patient can pay for the drug out of pocket. Not exactly ideal but it is an option.