No the Magic isn’t gone but it’s at 25%

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I disagree, most people did not want Max Pass at DL, and here we are.
rides that don't draw in new guests would be considered inherently dull, (lacking interest or excitement)

Oh I heard a lot of people loved MP at DL. Were you a lurker before you joined? I know when I went to DLR twice in 2019 and was planning on it I went over to the DL boards more and people were more pleased with MP but they also had no issue not doing MP.

I'm not sure if this helps or hurts my point but a lot of people who visited DL but also visited WDW wanted MP over at WDW if they were going to do a paid system. I actually enjoyed that MP (even as much as I hated purchasing it) came with Photopass included.

What the PP was saying about guests at DL it is true they have over time given better stuff to DL than to WDW especially when it came to AP holders and they listened to the gripes more of the DL guests because without those locals they can't make the parks work the same. They depend on them much like many regional parks do for their own particular area. Some of their decisions at WDW are made strictly because they don't rely on the outcry of locals. In Disney's mind you should be perfectly happy with $650 tents in MK but try that in DL and see what happens...

 

[leiaorgana]

Nobody’s offended or being forceful nor is anybody expecting Disney to act outside of safe constraints or forgotten about the limitations they’ve faced due to and during the pandemic. Neither does anybody expect Disney management to be mind readers or cater to their specific needs when it comes to the anniversary celebrations. The point I was making in my original post about this is that Disney management sent out surveys asking people what would have made the celebrations better and why it didn’t live up to their expectations because they know it hasn’t had the kind of impact that they were expecting it to and has been turned into a giant meme on social media and people all across the board, not just here, have felt it was underwhelming for such a milestone anniversary that unfortunately came at the worst time ever.

But they literally did ask what people would have wanted and why “they” were disappointed with these survey questions here:

• The celebration didn't celebrate "classic Disney" and lacked nostalgia
• Crowds made it difficult to enjoy the celebration
• The décor was limited
• Commemorative entertainment for the celebration was limited (stage shows, parades, etc.)
• There were long lines to purchase the merchandise
• The 50th-anniversary merchandise I wanted was unavailable
• The fireworks shows/nighttime spectaculars were not as good as previous shows
• There were long lines to purchase the special food and beverage offerings
• It was difficult to find the special food and beverage offerings
• It was not as good as other Disney celebrations
• It seemed like Just another day in the park
• It was not special enough for a 50th-anniversary celebration
• The prices for 50th-anniversary merchandise were high
• The fireworks shows/nighttime spectaculars didn't celebrate the 50th anniversary
• The special food and beverage offerings were limited
• The merchandise selection/variety was limited

 

[Jrb1979]

I think you are understating that WDW is more of a destination then DL. i think the numbers say that WDW is 20% recurring guests, and DL is something like 80% recurring guests. Frequency drives down expectations, which could play a big role in why it works better at DL. I just don't think it's as simple as you've laid out

Would you rather them make dull rides just to fill the hole? I think there's a reason they got rid of Ellens energy adventure haha

I don't think they need dull rides to fill the hole. Take a ride like Alien Swirling Saucers. It's not a huge draw but it's added capacity to a park that sorely needs it. Not every new ride needs to be a Guardians level. They need more things for people to do in the parks not named MK.

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

Yea we rope drop and take midday breaks which is why Genie plus is a waste of money.

Genie + works pretty well for those of us that find rope drop way too crowded and stressful. We can stack several throughout the day, show up when we want, then hit the big attractions again later in the evening when the lines are the shortest.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Nobody’s offended or being forceful nor is anybody expecting Disney to act outside of safe constraints or forgotten about the limitations they’ve faced due to and during the pandemic. Neither does anybody expect Disney management to be mind readers or cater to their specific needs when it comes to the anniversary celebrations. The point I was making in my original post about this is that Disney management sent out surveys asking people what would have made the celebrations better and why it didn’t live up to their expectations because they know it hasn’t had the kind of impact that they were expecting it to and has been turned into a giant meme on social media and people all across the board, not just here, have felt it was underwhelming for such a milestone anniversary that unfortunately came at the worst time ever.

But they literally did ask what people would have wanted and why “they” were disappointed with these survey questions here:

• The celebration didn't celebrate "classic Disney" and lacked nostalgia
• Crowds made it difficult to enjoy the celebration
• The décor was limited
• Commemorative entertainment for the celebration was limited (stage shows, parades, etc.)
• There were long lines to purchase the merchandise
• The 50th-anniversary merchandise I wanted was unavailable
• The fireworks shows/nighttime spectaculars were not as good as previous shows
• There were long lines to purchase the special food and beverage offerings
• It was difficult to find the special food and beverage offerings
• It was not as good as other Disney celebrations
• It seemed like Just another day in the park
• It was not special enough for a 50th-anniversary celebration
• The prices for 50th-anniversary merchandise were high
• The fireworks shows/nighttime spectaculars didn't celebrate the 50th anniversary
• The special food and beverage offerings were limited
• The merchandise selection/variety was limited

I think you are taking liberties with the survey, i think it is clear that the 50th was/ is lackluster (something that clearly doesn't elude Disney), and Disney is making sure they can address concerns in the future incase something similar presents itself at another celebration, or to make sure they are hitting things that their guests would like to see moving forward

Surveys are typically used as a barometer, and Disney pumps them out all the time. the last one I took asked if they should limit the crowds coming into the park, and this was pre-pandemic, clearly they did not take my advice. I think it's a leap to say that Disney expected their guests to be impressed with the toned down celebration, and therefore won't read too far into that survey

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I don't think they need dull rides to fill the hole. Take a ride like Alien Swirling Saucers. It's not a huge draw but it's added capacity to a park that sorely needs it. Not every new ride needs to be a Guardians level. They need more things for people to do in the parks not named MK.

i would argue that alien swirling saucers is dull, (i can't imagine anyone seeking that ride out, outside of someone with a sentimental attachment for some reason or another) and eats up less people then Dumbo did before it was dueling dumbos. I can't think of another park that adds rides just to eat up capacity, this is clearly a Disney problem. i wouldn't want them to do that either, i don't want rides for the sake of rides, for me personally that would cheapen the already extremely pricey experience.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I don't think they need dull rides to fill the hole. Take a ride like Alien Swirling Saucers. It's not a huge draw but it's added capacity to a park that sorely needs it. Not every new ride needs to be a Guardians level. They need more things for people to do in the parks not named MK.

I agree. I said this on another post on this thread too. Not every ride they add needs to be an E-ticket. If we're being honest Remy isn't necessarily an E-ticket but it did add another ride to a park that really needed more of them. The non-MK parks need rides that are smaller in scale but are still high quality and fun experiences. I don't even think WDW is the only place with this problem. California Adventure and Universal Studios Florida have this same issue.

 

[Jrb1979]

i would argue that alien swirling saucers is dull, and eats up less people then Dumbo did before it was dueling dumbos. I can't think of another park that adds rides just to eat up capacity, this is clearly a Disney problem. i wouldn't want them to do that either, i don't want rides for the sake of rides, for me personally that would cheapen the already extremely pricey experience.

If Disney could build these big ticket rides in less then 5 years I would be a for adding new ones.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't think they need dull rides to fill the hole. Take a ride like Alien Swirling Saucers. It's not a huge draw but it's added capacity to a park that sorely needs it. Not every new ride needs to be a Guardians level. They need more things for people to do in the parks not named MK.

I agree with your point but Alien Swirling Saucers isn't the best example.

They were only running one side one of the days we were there and it's been mentioned to also be having maintenance issues closing it down or forcing one side. In the case of what we saw it wasn't likely maintenance but likely staffing issues for that particular time. It only adds capacity if it's actually running, it sure backed up the line when it was only running 1 side.

Also it's a clone of Mater and it's slow to load and unload, it was something we saw over at DL, waits just build in part because of that.

BTW I thought I would have issues with Mater because of my motion sickness so I almost didn't ride it in DLR but decided to do it the second time we went there and boy it was so much fun. It rained on our March 2019 DLR trip and Mater is outdoors so it wouldn't have been best to ride it but I did have fun, it's nothing uber high tech or flashy but I think it takes people back to how their youth may have been with those types of rides they rode so in that vein it's a good addition and if a bunch of adults can just have fun laughing while be smushed around hey that's something.

 

[john7994]

If Disney could build these big ticket rides in less then 5 years I would be a for adding new ones.

You're just toying with me now ...

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

If Disney could build these big ticket rides in less then 5 years I would be a for adding new ones.

i just can't get behind that logic. i would take 1 FOP or ROTR over 10 people movers no matter the wait haha, and I love the people mover

 

[OppR2nist]

Say what you want about the 50th, but at least they didn't turn the castle into a cake...

 

[john7994]

i just can't get behind that logic. i would take 1 FOP or ROTR over 10 people movers no matter the wait haha, and I love the people mover

I love me some People Mover!!!!!!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

i just can't get behind that logic. i would take 1 FOP or ROTR over 10 people movers no matter the wait haha, and I love the people mover

But peoplemover has no height restriction and is a smooth enough ride (emphasis on enough because well sometimes there's small jerks) although it is not wheelchair accessible and also when it runs well it can get quite a lot of people going through it.

FOP is size restricted (the restraints, which I'm not sure if people remember how much that worried a lot of people not even people who are of a larger size either) and height restricted (44inches) and is not good for those with motion sickness, it requires a guest to be able to get up onto the ride vehicle like a bike so while a person can transition to a wheelchair they must then get off the wheelchair and get up into the ride. It does eat people though and it's a great ride although the first time around in 2017 I had my eyes closed a lot due to motion sickness.

Rise breaks down often, it is height restricted (40inches) although it is wheelchair/ecv accessible so they have specific ride vehicles for that, it also can trigger some motion sickness.

I know your point wasn't what I'm talking about but I don't want/need Disney to build 1 attraction only replicated time and time again if that 1 attraction bars too many people from riding it for one reason or another, in terms of waits that doesn't help at all.

Guardians for example is hitting a lot of people for motion sickness so it's a great addition in terms of fun at Epcot but it lacks enough generality to appease enough. Remy was awful for my motion sickness so that was a one and done ride for me and it gets other people there too.

I'm not saying Disney needs to build stuff for me but rather as I said on another thread a high octane ride isn't always needed. So we don't need 10 peoplemovers in place of 1 FOP but we don't need 10 FOP in place of 1 peoplemover if that makes sense.

 

[Smugpugmug]

i just can't get behind that logic. i would take 1 FOP or ROTR over 10 people movers no matter the wait haha, and I love the people mover

I mean, if you put it like that I think everyone can agree. I would just like Disney to make more than the big E-tickets like Rise and Guardians. In my perfect scenario I would want Disney to build something like this at WDW:

Doesn't have a height requirement, never gets a long wait at it's home park (HKDL), extremely well themed and a great use of the trackless ride system.

 

[Disturbia]

Right. It’s like they want Disney to act without constraints, despite a pandemic—the effects of which are still being felt when it comes to hiring, supply chain, etc—and they want Disney to know what they want when it comes to castle projections, merch, marketing promotions, etc.

Btw Due to guest feedback Disney added more lasers and the fireworks did improve from the original 2021 Enchantment (disorganized; timing issues: Tink didn’t fly at the end of the rainbow etc).

 

[Disturbia]

I mean, if you put it like that I think everyone can agree. I would just like Disney to make more than the big E-tickets like Rise and Guardians. In my perfect scenario I would want Disney to build something like this at WDW:

Doesn't have a height requirement, never gets a long wait at it's home park (HKDL), extremely well themed and a great use of the trackless ride system.

I agree. They could also have more interactions with animated characters like Banshees/Direhorses (thinking about the Blu meet/greet at Universal).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I agree. They could also have more interactions with animated characters like Banshees/Direhorses (thinking about the Blu meet/greet at Universal).

That actually makes me think when we were there in Universal last month some of the Scooby gang (at least Shaggy, Velma and Daphne) just randomly came out and interacted with guests, played some charades game IIRC. Shaggy was off getting into trouble by the shops lol and had to be called back.

Blues Brothers also comes out in their car slow rollin' and all.

And the Despicable Me dance party where afterwards they encouraged you to stick around and meet everyone, there was a lot of guest interaction with the dance party.

It was just a lighthearted fun thing to see and you're right about Blu guests were def. enjoying being able to experience that.

A banshee would be so cool!

 

[Beer Me]

This is what seems so perplexing to me. We were there during Spring Break and were able to stack so many rides at DHS and MK it was crazy. I have looked at thrill data almost every day since we got back and I don't understand what people are doing that they can only ride a few rides at MK or DHS. Looking at Memorial Day weekend for example, the data shows that RotR, SDD and ToT all sold out of capacity in the first couple of hours. RotR looks like it sold out first but still had availability for about an hour after park open so you could either try to RD it or just buy the $ILL. SDD and ToT showed availability to around 10 or 10:30 so yo may have to make a choice on those two. Most of the other rides showed available capacity will into the day with the rest of the big attractions showing availability all the way into the evening hours.

Again - just doesn't make a lot of sense how some people are experiencing such wildly different scenarios especially when you look at the data.

I watch a lot of Disney vloggers and from what I can tell the fluctuations in crowd size can be wild. Most days are super crowded but there are random stretches of days where the crowds are pretty light. It seems impossible to predict.

That could be some of it but also that not everyone is great at using the app, also random glitches, bad luck etc.

Whatever the case genie+ is not a consistently good experience.

For anyone who has not watched this video, it really is best possible way to fully understand the how and the why of various iterations of virtual queues that Disney has chosen to employ over the years. Honestly, if people just watched these videos before commenting on how the different systems work (have worked) it would make for a much better conversation.

This video has so many good parts to it that I could write 15 different posts about it, but the best parts to me are where they give visual representations showing the capacity issues and how Disney has tried to manage them.

I will also say that some of the nostalgia purists may find it interesting that the first system Disney used to manage ride capacity by selling it was the old E-tickets and what that tiered ticket system did to standby wait times of certain attractions.

When they show the ride distribution chart comparing no FP to FP+ I couldn't help but think that all of us were on the far right of the curve and the reason there is so much angst around here is that our community of hyper-fans is desperate to find the best way to get back to that far right edge of the curve.

I’ll cop to that. With FP+ I planned ahead and used it to its full advantage. We used the system as intended and had great results and it really wasn’t that difficult or time consuming to learn and plan. I really don’t see myself as a hyper-fan or hyper-planner.

So yeah, I’m not happy about paying for what I perceive to be a lesser system. But if I plan another family vacation at Disney I’ll use genie and paid LL to their full advantage as well.

 

[Jrb1979]

i just can't get behind that logic. i would take 1 FOP or ROTR over 10 people movers no matter the wait haha, and I love the people mover

Look at MK. The park with the most attractions of all the parks. It's a great example of whats missing from the other parks. We all want more rides like FOP but right now the parks not named MK need capacity in the worst way. I'm not saying to add a bunch of off the shelf attractions. Another that would help is adding new attractions and not just replacing them.

My dream has always been to see them finish World Showcase as originally planned.