No the Magic isn’t gone but it’s at 25%

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

it was more a question of “would you eat at the exact same places if paying out of pocket?”, and if that answer was no it likely wasn’t a cost savings.

Yeah that was a main one. Few people on the various threads actually sat down and really went over it. I mean it's like a full time job in itself to go over all that stuff.

But there was a lot of threads going over the strategies for picking just the right AYCTE or buffet place or Signature Dining place, regular TS, and QS places. They were not all valued the same in terms of the Dining Plan just because they were an option. Not only were you locked into the places that took the Dining Plan but if you were actually looking to maximize it you would want to track the threads out there that did this to go to the dining places that gave you that maximizing.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Isn't the the point of contention though? I think what originated the conversation was just the idea that what the dining plan was in the past may realistically not be the dining plan of the future should it come back because conditions in 2019 and early 2020 just don't exist anymore. Part of the reason I commented with you is because I think you were coming at it like it was pre-pandemic. It's fair IMO to question if things are like they were such that they could bring it back in the past form at the relative costs that it was. And if Disney sees a need to have it as part of their product. Since they've reopened in summer 2020 there's been a lot going on that I don't think any of us would have thought was the case. O'hana for instance a place normally highly sought after took a year to reopen. Character Dining took nearly 2 years.

My original comment was only that i hoped it was back by next year, then things began to unravel, i never stated whether or not it would look like it did pre-pandemic, just that Disney could figure it out and offer it again.

If you went through your receipts it's possible you might notice something different. Some people naturally order things that are historically higher priced items as well as a good amount of food and maybe that was you but for a lot of people actually looking at the fine print to where they would decide would they or wouldn't they the common end result for just about everyone was they rarely netted anything, sometimes broke even but usually paid more than they would have when they really went over their habits. The common mentality was not wanting to worry about price (perfectly valid but separate from the conversation of cost of plan vs cost of items without plan).

I can only speak to my experience, i don't think i was wrong with my math but who knows

We don't know if Disney always made a profit on just the Dining Plan but I do think they had ways to pad costs on their end. Free Dining for instance required room rate to be rack rate and many times math-wise you were better off taking the room only discount

I find it interesting that your comment above talks about how most lost out or broke even, but now you're talking about how there's no way to know if it was profitable.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Yeah that was a main one. Few people on the various threads actually sat down and really went over it. I mean it's like a full time job in itself to go over all that stuff.

it really isn't that hard, just total all your meal receipts and see where it gets you. i snapped pics of the receipt on my phone and totaled it all at the end of the trip to see how we did

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I find it interesting that your comment above talks about how most lost out or broke even, but now you're talking about how there's no way to know if it was profitable.

Because pricing of the plan and Disney's actual costs aren't known to us peons lol. No way to know if their costs exceeded how they priced the plan throughout the time it was available to purchase. Note I responded to your assertation of always. And I made sure to say we don't know it was always profitable. I do know that it was in the last several years that they raised the Dining Plan during the year something that caught people off guard. If I had to guess it was something on the back end financials telling them they needed to do that.

it really isn't that hard, just total all your meal receipts and see where it gets you. i snapped pics of the receipt on my phone and totaled it all at the end of the trip to see how we did

I never said it was hard physically to do it. People just don't often do it, comb through every purchase they made at Disney and then comparing that with the costs of the dining plan then the side comparison of if they would have done all that if they didn't have the plan. It's a lot of work that many who touted they conquered the dining plan didn't actually do. And that should tell you something that it was a point of pride for people to proclaim on the Boards they beat the dining plan

 

[mickeyluv'r]

If it’s profitable for them then it must not save you any money..so why in the world would you buy it?

Heh?

When people buy the dining plan, they are locking into buying a whole week's worth of food. That in itself is helpful to WDW, because they know in advance you will be buying the food, and it is ALL pre-paid by the customer 45 days before arrival. Again, a full forty-five days before you arrive they have your money.

In return for the pre-payment, WDW is able to offer an incentive to the customer. We agree we eat FULL meals- desserts, drinks, etc. and we will eat them all onsite.

Outside the DDP, I hardly ever get dessert. I also don't get the most expensive thing on the menu. DDP encourages me to do both.

Have you never heard of an upsell? Restaurants make less on entrees, and more off the extras. Locking us into all the upsell items = a win for WDW.

So we used to get those extras for a little less than full price because we agreed to pre-pay.

 

[DCLMP]

I've wondered the same since the dining plan doesn't really save you any money and in a lot of aspects you are overpaying for the amount of food you'll realistically eat. I've seen a lot of people on other Disney fan sites I'm on say they know this, but buy it for the convenience the dining plan offers. I do think when the dining plan comes back, it'll be different than the past one and/or it'll be more expensive.

When our kids were under ten we bought it a couple of times I can’t say it saved us money because we ate at a lot of signature restaurants that we would not have dined at had we been paying cash. This was back in 2010 to 2013 period when we were in a recession and Disney was cheap by todays standards.

They kept raising the cost until it no longer made sense or afforded any kind of savings. In 2018 we booked two rooms and bought the deluxe plan for one room and split it between the four of us. We didn’t book two rooms to do this. Our kids are just big now and we need two rooms. That strategy gave the plan some value and allowed us to eat at some more expensive restaurants, but the gratuity on these meals was insane.. again spent more on food than we needed to. Two deluxe dining plans was still too much food for four people.

The cost of the dining plans before they discontinued them was ridiculous. You have to eat a huge amount of food and alter the way you eat to justify eat. If they bring it back I can’t imagine what the cost will be.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

If you went through your receipts it's possible you might notice something different. Some people naturally order things that are historically higher priced items as well as a good amount of food and maybe that was you but for a lot of people actually looking at the fine print to where they would decide would they or wouldn't they the common end result for just about everyone was they rarely netted anything, sometimes broke even but usually paid more than they would have when they really went over their habits. The common mentality was not wanting to worry about price (perfectly valid but separate from the conversation of cost of plan vs cost of items without plan).


We don't know if Disney always made a profit on just the Dining Plan but I do think they had ways to pad costs on their end. Free Dining for instance required room rate to be rack rate and many times math-wise you were better off taking the room only discount

The DDP changed over time. Initially it was a considerable savings deal. As more people bought into it, WDW cut it back drastically and raised the price. (at least util they added alcohol.)

I agree Disney had ways of padding costs, but maybe not just the way you suggest. One way WDW padded costs- at least at one point- was to change the food itself. Instead of offering expensive berries on the buffet, they'd only offer inexpensive melon, for example, during free dining periods.

 

[TikiRob]

This thread is all over the place. It’s causing me to question everything.

 

[Williams mum]

That's up to you, but I can say from experience that my enjoyment of the parks last month was VASTLY improved by purchasing G+. I loathe the fact that it is not free anymore as well, but when I take into consideration the overall cost of my vacation, I'm glad I paid for it every day because I rode far more rides and my average wait time was drastically improved. We actually had time to shop, grab a snack, take in the beauty of the parks, etc... It was a game changer versus last summer when everything was standby only. That was terrible and we would never visit again if they went back to that.

Might want to try it one day for $60, especially at MK or HS, and see if it's worth it. I can't imagine being there and forcing ourselves to standby only

Dan

I’m sure it was. And you are fortunate to be able to do that. If I chose to do so, I could afford the genie plus tickets too. But a lot of people save a long time just to afford the park tickets for themselves and their children. And their experience has been made much worse because you are paying to get in line first. Perhaps more than once for the same ride. Disney never used to be that way. It was an experience for everyone. And I think it’s the worse for it.

 

[DCLMP]

Heh?

When people buy the dining plan, they are locking into buying a whole week's worth of food. That in itself is helpful to WDW, because they know in advance you will be buying the food, and it is ALL pre-paid by the customer 45 days before arrival. Again, a full forty-five days before you arrive they have your money.

In return for the pre-payment, WDW is able to offer an incentive to the customer. We agree we eat FULL meals- desserts, drinks, etc. and we will eat them all onsite.

Outside the DDP, I hardly ever get dessert. I also don't get the most expensive thing on the menu. DDP encourages me to do both.

Have you never heard of an upsell? Restaurants make less on entrees, and more off the extras. Locking us into all the upsell items = a win for WDW.

So we used to get those extras for a little less than full price because we agreed to pre-pay.

Like I said if it's profitable to Disney then it's not saving the customer money. You just proved my point. My guess is the dining plan because so expensive and not cost effective that people like myself stopped purchasing it. If they are going to bring it back they are going to need people to buy it.

 

[Marionnette]

And their experience has been made much worse because you are paying to get in line first. Perhaps more than once for the same ride.

I agree that standby waits have been increased and I believe they're worse than they were with FP+. However, you cannot use G+ or ILL$ to ride any attraction more than once using the LL. It's one G+ or ILL$ per attraction and if you want to ride again that day, you need to get in the standby line.

 

[disneyseniors]

Yeah that's what I mean. Some people know they're overpaying for the dining plan but are willing to do so for the convenience of not having to worry about food while on vacation. If you knew how to get the bang for your buck in terms of dining credits, then the plan was a no brainer. But a lot of people didn't and ended up overpaying and not eating enough food to justify the cost. I never did the dining plan and probably won't - I don't eat enough food.

We used to do the DP but then stopped and really looked at what we actually ate. It seemed we ate more than we wanted or needed just to make the DP "worth it". We then stopped the DP and started using our CC for all meals. We ate what we actually wanted and then paid it off when at home. The CC was just as convenient for us to use. We never went back to the DP after that.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Like I said if it's profitable to Disney then it's not saving the customer money. You just proved my point. My guess is the dining plan because so expensive and not cost effective that people like myself stopped purchasing it. If they are going to bring it back they are going to need people to buy it.

Er, no.

I tried to help you understand how your assumptions could be wrong in multiple ways, but if the Dining Plan wasn't something you wanted to buy, so be it.

WDW isn't selling a DDP at this time.

That's all.

 

[yorkieteacher]

When just me and other adults go, we just ate appetizers or in the lounges and never got the dining plan. It was cheaper for us. When we were with grands, we went during a festival and used our snack credits there, and ate character meals for all the table service, and sometimes even exchanged a quick service for two snacks at the festival. When the meals included an alcoholic beverage or specialty drink, we felt like we more than broke even- but truthfully we never did the math!

 

[Williams mum]

That's up to you, but I can say from experience that my enjoyment of the parks last month was VASTLY improved by purchasing G+. I loathe the fact that it is not free anymore as well, but when I take into consideration the overall cost of my vacation, I'm glad I paid for it every day because I rode far more rides and my average wait time was drastically improved. We actually had time to shop, grab a snack, take in the beauty of the parks, etc... It was a game changer versus last summer when everything was standby only. That was terrible and we would never visit again if they went back to that.

Might want to try it one day for $60, especially at MK or HS, and see if it's worth it. I can't imagine being there and forcing ourselves to standby only

 

[Williams mum]

I agree that standby waits have been increased and I believe they're worse than they were with FP+. However, you cannot use G+ or ILL$ to ride any attraction more than once using the LL. It's one G+ or ILL$ per attraction and if you want to ride again that day, you need to get in the standby line.

I have just left the jungle cruise. 50 minute wait at 8pm on 27 August. I watched them fill two boats from the lightning lane while the standby queue just stood there. We left. Not all rides are this bad, I accept. But then not all rides are at the beginning of the park to frighten people into buying the genie plus pass. I have been coming here for 15 years with my kids. Whether or not it was true, or just a clever illusion, it used to feel like customer experience was Disney’s priority. Cast members smiled. They cared about whether people were happy. And now it feels like money is the priority. Which now just makes it like any other theme park anywhere for me. It has slightly broken my heart. The magic is all but gone.

 

[NavyDad]

There has not been inflation like this in 40 years…and it’s only going to get worse. The dining plan is not coming back.

I hope it does not come back. IMO the dining plans make the dining experience worse for everyone. Quality goes down and demand for ADR's is artificially inflated.

 

[RoseGold]

How in the world would Disney benefit bringing it back?

Because the dining plan makes money. I don't see why they couldn't offer it 60 days out or something and hike the price, like everything else, if inflation is the problem.

This is one of the ones I don't get not coming back, like BBB, which prints money.

 

[NavyDad]

I’m sure it was. And you are fortunate to be able to do that. If I chose to do so, I could afford the genie plus tickets too. But a lot of people save a long time just to afford the park tickets for themselves and their children. And their experience has been made much worse because you are paying to get in line first. Perhaps more than once for the same ride. Disney never used to be that way. It was an experience for everyone. And I think it’s the worse for it.

You were still paying for the service before - it was just rolled into the price of your ticket. Now, you can choose to pay extra for it for choose not to do that.

The total price to visit WDW has gone up. Just like it always does. My family was middle class in the 80's and 90's and they could not afford to go to WDW. It has always been expensive.

Disney has used clever marketing tricks over the years to get people to think they were getting "free" perks but they were never free. When Disney rolled out Legacy Fast Pass, they raised prices and each person paid more for their tickets. When Disney rolled out Fast Pass Plus as part of the MM+ umbrella, they raised prices significantly multiple times. Guests paid for FP+ as part of their ticket price whether they got 3 FP for the day or 13.

Fast pass and fast pass plus were never free just like there was never a "free" dining plan.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[gharter]

We used to do the DP but then stopped and really looked at what we actually ate. It seemed we ate more than we wanted or needed just to make the DP "worth it". We then stopped the DP and started using our CC for all meals. We ate what we actually wanted and then paid it off when at home. The CC was just as convenient for us to use. We never went back to the DP after that.

That was our experience as well. We had it twice and it was too much food for too many meals for us.
And at the time, many of the restaurants that we wanted to dine in, were not part of the plan.
I understand the idea of prepaying for your food and having to worry about budgeting for it, but just didn't work well for us.