No more Prince or Princesses

Status
Not open for further replies.

midwestdee

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 3, 2005
Don't trust Wikipedia! :hyper:

OK, how about this, then: My wife and I independently know about this. My family is from Eastern Europe and my grandparents experienced all of this first hand. My grandma's brother was a proud bolshevik (until he...wasn't.) My grandma and her brother recounted found memories of calling people "tovarishch" in earnest, at first, then ironically, with a hidden sneer, later. Yes, they really were that old (and I guess that makes me pretty old, too.)

My wife grew up in PRC. Their equivalent is 同志 (in Pinyin, TongZhi.) I just now asked her, and she knew the phrase and it's intended usage immediately, of course.

Question: when does "friend" not imply "friendship?"
Answer: When you are politically required to call total strangers that.
Well, I did my civic duty. Have a good trip down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, friend.
 

Grandmaof2

Mouseketeer
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I'd love it if they would (really feels like they should have already) make buttons like the 1st visit, etc and you can indicate what you want to be called (Prince/ss, friend, he/him, they/them, etc). You can do this with some of the buttons - but make it WAY more of a thing so that people can present themselves to the CMs, etc and no one has to guess/guess incorrectly/assume/people feel heard, etc.
Good Idea!
 

lotsohugginbear

Mouseketeer
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
I agree that a neutral term for people in a group would be better: guests, folks -- words like that. Everything at Disney doesn't have to be cutesy. Calling everyone by friends is pretty saccharine. And clearly, by this thread, not appreciated by some!
 

Disneylover99

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
I agree that a neutral term for people in a group would be better: guests, folks -- words like that. Everything at Disney doesn't have to be cutesy. Calling everyone by friends is pretty saccharine. And clearly, by this thread, not appreciated by some!
I’m all for gender neutral terms. But I’m not a fan of “friends”. I just get a sketchy man with a big white van vibe when I hear adults using that word to address children.

I think words like folks, guests, everyone work well. It gets trickier when addressing individuals.
 

WeatherLights

Mouseketeer
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
My dentist calls me "friend." Like, "Hey friend, let's take a look at that filling." I giggle to myself whenever he says it. :-)
 

DodgerGirl

Crazy For The Mandalorian
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
In the 1800's boys and men used to be referred to as "master" and girls and women were known as "mistress" and the only time that you'll see master or mistress today is on invitations to fancy formal affairs such as dinners and weddings. But having Disney Parks having cast members no longer referring to girls and boys as Princess and Prince is very wrong. Because Prince and Princess are royal titles much like King and Queen are in royality and have been very important since they are part of history. Why I think Disney Parks are doing this to cast members is probably because they have updated protocol and rules in the parks now. But I have noticed that not only cast members use Princess and Prince also face characters use it too. Because when I would go to Disneyland I used to see Cinderella greet little girls with Hi Princess and I thought it was sweet. But I can tell you if you watch a character meet and greet today with a face character they probably will say "Hi my good friend or girls would be addressed as "Hello Sugar" by the princesses because Disney Parks probably gave the cast members and the character actors lessons on this new protocol and I think this will be the new image of cast members today
 

Suger Mag

MamaBear
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Being upset about people greeting with "Hello Friend" is like being upset about people saying "Happy Holidays"

Why is inclusion so triggering and threatening?

I don't know about you, but I am just happy to be at WDW... I could care less what I am called (dont think I ever really paid attention LOL).

Not that I will hold my breath for this... but I think parents need to stop transferring their BS onto their kids... I wager most kids are just simply happy to be at WDW, and wish you would hurry up at the ticket places etc. and stop talking to CMs and let them get onto the good stuff.... and could also care less if some CM called them Prince/cess ...... or Friend....

Besides, being called Princess should be a honor reserved for those tough as nails kids who walk around all day long in a scratchy glittery princess dress and plastic shoes....
 

nancipants

DIS Veteran
Joined
Nov 18, 2013
For the people who say "why can't people just shake off being misgendered." Because there are people who literally DO NOT BELIEVE that being transgender is an actual thing. These are the people pushing anti-trans legislation, refusing to allow children to socially transition, and prosecuting parents who permit their children to be on puberty blockers. These are the people who say that it doesn't matter how someone dresses, their genitalia/chromosomes determine their gender. These are people who refuse to use a person's preferred pronouns. These are the people who insist on referring to actors like Elliot Page by their deadnames because "it's too hard" to remember. It's not so simple for a trans child to "laugh it off" when the people they see every day - teachers, classmates, administrators, etc - refuse to acknowledge their gender or think they are mentally ill or would rather them be suicidal than receive gender-affirming care. It is not the same as a boy with long hair being called a girl. It is about trans people being told their identity is not valid every single day and then having that attitude brought to the so-called most magical place on Earth where everyone is supposed to be accepted.
 

bsmcneil

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2006
This does bring up a really trivial point that I worry overshadows the important element of this discussion. But I'll go there and hope for the best. When I last went to Monsters Inc Laugh Floor, I was "That guy" (which I hated - not in a bad "I'll never come back" way but in the "I really, really don't like attention" way - and endured my time in the hot seat just fine). As I identify as a guy/male, etc, it's fine with me (I'm equally pretty fine with fluidity in gender roles and I'd never be upset with someone referring to me as they/them, just as I found it interesting that a couple of friends were 100% positive I was a trans man when we first met). I imagine that my oldest, in particular, would really struggle with the label "that guy" as they don't identify as a guy (but were assigned male at birth).

"That person" or "that human" doesn't quite convey the thing in the English language that "that guy" (or even the phrase, which I don't think I hear ever, "that gal"). My academic background is in Race and Gender Studies (formally, though it also included things like disability and class) - it makes me wonder if there are DEI Readers amongst the Imagineering staff looking at old attractions (I trust it's happening for new ones) ... and if not, I volunteer!
 

Chirple

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
This does bring up a really trivial point that I worry overshadows the important element of this discussion. But I'll go there and hope for the best. When I last went to Monsters Inc Laugh Floor, I was "That guy" (which I hated - not in a bad "I'll never come back" way but in the "I really, really don't like attention" way - and endured my time in the hot seat just fine). As I identify as a guy/male, etc, it's fine with me (I'm equally pretty fine with fluidity in gender roles and I'd never be upset with someone referring to me as they/them, just as I found it interesting that a couple of friends were 100% positive I was a trans man when we first met). I imagine that my oldest, in particular, would really struggle with the label "that guy" as they don't identify as a guy (but were assigned male at birth).

"That person" or "that human" doesn't quite convey the thing in the English language that "that guy" (or even the phrase, which I don't think I hear ever, "that gal"). My academic background is in Race and Gender Studies (formally, though it also included things like disability and class) - it makes me wonder if there are DEI Readers amongst the Imagineering staff looking at old attractions (I trust it's happening for new ones) ... and if not, I volunteer!
How about "that one" (read in Roz's voice)? This also allows the person picked to be anyone and not limited to someone who presents as male.
 

whiteness

Free pet adoptions
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Not really I think most people are respectful of peoples gender identities and pronouns accordingly. When you get offended when someone calls you a kind greeting of friend that’s the problem.
I think the problem is that people seem to feel they have the right to decide for everyone else in the world what is important and what people should care about. And, because they are so d*mn sure that their own personal world-view is the only correct one, it is impossible for them to see the irony of their position.

But you have a magical day, Friend.
 

Kennywood

Kennywood
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
hello-seinfeld-gif.gif
 

BrianL

Doom Buggy Driver
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
I think the problem is that people seem to feel they have the right to decide for everyone else in the world what is important and what people should care about. And, because they are so d*mn sure that their own personal world-view is the only correct one, it is impossible for them to see the irony of their position.

But you have a magical day, Friend.

I haven't agreed with you on a lot things in this thread, but I do agree with you here. This is why I say that it needs to be a conversation and not just hard rules. There is more than one way to seek diversity and inclusion, more than one way to be an ally. Too often today there is only one thing that is determined to be "right" and if you disagree then you are immediately the enemy. That is counter-productive. I have shared my ideas and tactics, but I'm also not saying that everyone has to do it that way. It's just a point to consider is all (and it did help me when I was bullied as a kid, so it's what I figured out works for me).
 

lotsohugginbear

Mouseketeer
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
I'm at WDW now, and I made a lot of new "friends" today. This is great! It's hard to make new friends when you're in your fifties. I can't wait to go out to dinner with these new friends.
But seriously, on our June trip, I felt like a waiter was intentionally calling my kid Ma'am. What twenty-two year old is a Ma'am?? The waiter was my age! I didn't call this waiter out when I contacted guest relations, but I do think there was some intentionality in their behavior. As a parent, this really made me sad.
 

BrianL

Doom Buggy Driver
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
I'm at WDW now, and I made a lot of new "friends" today. This is great! It's hard to make new friends when you're in your fifties. I can't wait to go out to dinner with these new friends.
But seriously, on our June trip, I felt like a waiter was intentionally calling my kid Ma'am. What twenty-two year old is a Ma'am?? The waiter was my age! I didn't call this waiter out when I contacted guest relations, but I do think there was some intentionality in their behavior. As a parent, this really made me sad.

Ma'am is quite common around here for a female customer of any age - it wouldn't at all be unusual for an older individual to use that phrase. It's just coloquial. You do however highlight how anything can be taken differently by different people.
 

Mackenzie Click-Mickelson

Chugging along the path of life
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
I'm pretty sure as a kid my personality was that of "I'm not a princess, I'm a queen" :laughing:

That said doesn't make any difference IMO to adjust to just friends or lack of title honestly is fine. I'm not really certain I was even called princess by my parents like "aren't you our little princess". I certainly played a lot of make believe but not sure I was labeled that.
 

Mackenzie Click-Mickelson

Chugging along the path of life
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
intentionally calling my kid Ma'am
For some ma'am is literally the name they call everyone irrespective of age similar to sir. It's a sign of respect not disrespect when done that way.

Is the more likely scenario that someone has some sort of weird grudge against a 22 year old enough to think calling them ma'am is some sort of diss to show them? Or is the more likely scenario that they simply use ma'am in general?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.









Top