New Trade In Program

[AnnaKristoff2013]

hey know the more sales that go through at lower numbers, even more lower prices are on the way - and since they own some of these contracts, the last thing they want is to be holding the bag.

I think this probably hits the nail on the head. A true broker-only firm like https://www.fidelityrealestate.com/brand/disney-vacation-club/could care less what DVC prices do. They make their money off the commissions, and as long as they are selling, they are getting a commission. If the resale prices go down, the slight decrease in their commissions isn't going to kill them. (They also don't just sell DVC, they sell all different timeshare brands). On the other hand, www.dvcresalemarket.com also owns a lot of contracts (and they were playing the buy, strip, rent, sell game, and now are caught holding the bag). If DVC resale prices go down, they lose money on the contracts that they are holding. This also probably explains why so many contracts on dvc resale market are stripped compared to some of the other brokers. They thus have a real incentive to try to keep the prices as inflated as possible, or the whole thing could come crashing down.

 

[sethschroeder]

The way they keep quickly jumping from "gimmick" to "gimmick" here seems a bit desperate to me. First there were the "no haggle hot deals!" that were in fact negotiable, and weren't that actually that "hot" compared to other brokers. Now this. I suspect that brokers are feeling the squeeze of a tight market right now, there just aren't that many people looking to buy DVC right now.

Thing is they likely could bump volume if all they did was charge a broker fee on the exchange "value" which could simply be the average price of recently sold contracts to see the broker fee but nothing more.

Heck I wonder if legally they could get around RFOR if two people even agreed to exchange without any cash changing hands? 150 BCV for 200 BWV straight up nothing more or would the other contract be considered payment so it would go to ROFR somehow?

Not sure how that works.

 

[sethschroeder]

I think this probably hits the nail on the head. A true broker-only firm like https://www.fidelityrealestate.com/brand/disney-vacation-club/could care less what DVC prices do. They make their money off the commissions, and as long as they are selling, they are getting a commission. If the resale prices go down, the slight decrease in their commissions isn't going to kill them. (They also don't just sell DVC, they sell all different timeshare brands). On the other hand, www.dvcresalemarket.com also owns a lot of contracts (and they were playing the buy, strip, rent, sell game, and now are caught holding the bag). If DVC resale prices go down, they lose money on the contracts that they are holding. This also probably explains why so many contracts on dvc resale market are stripped compared to some of the other brokers. They thus have a real incentive to try to keep the prices as inflated as possible, or the whole thing could come crashing down.

This is why I wish DVC was a little more aggressive about enforcing the concept that you are not supposed to run a business off points from my understanding. You can own points as a business but its meant still for "personal" use to an extent.

Can't be that hard to see memberships, addresses, and email domains to catch these big brokers.

Disney probably likes it though as it doesn't impact their ability to sell direct and actually does artificially elevate prices.

 

[pianomanzano]

The way they keep quickly jumping from "gimmick" to "gimmick" here seems a bit desperate to me. First there were the "no haggle hot deals!" that were in fact negotiable, and weren't that actually that "hot" compared to other brokers. Now this. I suspect that brokers are feeling the squeeze of a tight market right now, there just aren't that many people looking to buy DVC right now.

Conversely, I think these gimmicks are a good way to get people interested in DVC rather than a listing of contracts on a website. I think the disboards community isn't a good consumer market for this particular broker, but they definitely get a lot of business and traffic through advertisements across several shows and podcasts and put there name out there on FB along with these new/different ways to advertise contracts, point rental/swaps, etc. I’m mostly a hard no on these things, but I can see how the average person interested in DVC could be sold on these gimmicks.

 

[Cfabar1]

The way they keep quickly jumping from "gimmick" to "gimmick" here seems a bit desperate to me. First there were the "no haggle hot deals!" that were in fact negotiable, and weren't that actually that "hot" compared to other brokers. Now this. I suspect that brokers are feeling the squeeze of a tight market right now, there just aren't that many people looking to buy DVC right now.

The fact they were “no haggle” prevented me from bidding on any of those. They were not priced competitively enough to justify no haggling. I just assumed they were sellers not serious so I never bid.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

The fact they were “no haggle” prevented me from bidding on any of those. They were not priced competitively enough to justify no haggling. I just assumed they were sellers not serious so I never bid.

There were reports in the ROFR thread that people “haggled” and had offers accepted.

 

[Stank]

Yes, exactly. Anyone who says “they’re just posting things and there’s no overhead, they just want their commission” I don’t think truly gets what an empire they have built…. To me, they have built a series of companies that are all closely related. Some buy, some broker, some title, some finance, etc. All these things work together and the last thing they want is for the whole system to come crashing down. They know the more sales that go through at lower numbers, even more lower prices are on the way - and since they own some of these contracts, the last thing they want is to be holding the bag.

Yes, I know they can rent the points… but with Disney launching so many sales, and bringing back free parking, rentals become even less attractive.

This guy/gal gets it.

 

[MarkNC2Disney]

I think it is another attempt to desperately find value in a sinking market. Their firm I think is struggling and desperately wants to retain as much profit as possible in this market.

Can’t blame them. It’s a tough time. But they have to be careful as it is getting tougher and tougher to justify using them. When I offer prices around the fidelity range for February average, and they say there’s no way it makes me more likely to not use them in the future.

Yes, exactly. Anyone who says “they’re just posting things and there’s no overhead, they just want their commission” I don’t think truly gets what an empire they have built…. To me, they have built a series of companies that are all closely related. Some buy, some broker, some title, some finance, etc. All these things work together and the last thing they want is for the whole system to come crashing down. They know the more sales that go through at lower numbers, even more lower prices are on the way - and since they own some of these contracts, the last thing they want is to be holding the bag.

Yes, I know they can rent the points… but with Disney launching so many sales, and bringing back free parking, rentals become even less attractive.

Yup - all this. I like the people there. They’ve done or sponsored a tremendous amount of educating on DVC. But lately, some of their marketing tactics have been silly (e.g., “Red Hot Deals” that are still well above market rate elsewhere)

 

[JPKanks]

The DVC Show episode #141, 12/27/21 where Pete, Paul and the crew chastise Disney for doing something similar when Disney was offering $80-$90 a point for OKW.

"It's almost unethical.....it feels dirty....they know what these points are worth, they know what they're getting on the resale market....and they are banking on people not knowing. They pay lip service to how much they value their members and do stuff like that and expect us to take them seriously" -Pete

 

[pianomanzano]

The DVC Show episode #141, 12/27/21 where Pete, Paul and the crew chastise Disney for doing something similar when Disney was offering $80-$90 a point for OKW.

"It's almost unethical.....it feels dirty....they know what these points are worth, they know what they're getting on the resale market....and they are banking on people not knowing. They pay lip service to how much they value their members and do stuff like that and expect us to take them seriously" -Pete

To be fair, you’re taking this quote way out of context. In December 2021 the average resale value for OKW and SSR (the contracts that DVC was contacting owners about to buyback from) was in the 120s-130s. Totally different from what the market is right now. The ROFR thread is showing accepted offers down at 80s-90s.

And if anyone who keeps talking about this instant offer has actually talked to the broker, they’ll tell you to list it first at the value that the same tool recommends listing at before actually taking the instant sale offer. The instant sale should really only be used as a last resort if you need quick/emergency funds.

 

[ocdb8r1]

There were reports in the ROFR thread that people “haggled” and had offers accepted.

I was not successful. I got a generic response that no offers were being accepted...and so I said thanks, and moved on.

 

[JPKanks]

To be fair, you’re taking this quote way out of context. In December 2021 the average resale value for OKW and SSR (the contracts that DVC was contacting owners about to buyback from) was in the 120s-130s. Totally different from what the market is right now. The ROFR thread is showing accepted offers down at 80s-90s.

And if anyone who keeps talking about this instant offer has actually talked to the broker, they’ll tell you to list it first at the value that the same tool recommends listing at before actually taking the instant sale offer. The instant sale should really only be used as a last resort if you need quick/emergency funds.

It wasn't taken out of context, that is the exact quote. Go listen. I referenced that episode # in another comment. Earlier on this thread, a person said they were offered $60+ a point which is significantly below what they are going for on resale today. It's the same 'buy low, sell high' concept the whole team was lambasting. They did it on multiple episodes too (I referenced that episode # in another comment). It's a smart business strategy, but the whole 'do as I say, not as I do' attitude is a turnoff.

SSR has nothing to do with this, not sure why you mentioned that.

 

[pianomanzano]

It wasn't taken out of context, that is the exact quote. Go listen. I referenced that episode # in another comment. Earlier on this thread, a person said they were offered $60+ a point which is significantly below what they are going for on resale today. It's the same 'buy low, sell high' concept the whole team was lambasting. They did it on multiple episodes too (I referenced that episode # in another comment). It's a smart business strategy, but the whole 'do as I say, not as I do' attitude is a turnoff.

SSR has nothing to do with this, not sure why you mentioned that.

I'm well aware of the quote and the background of it all. The quote is describing an initiative DVC had back in 2021 where they cold called/e-mailed DVC members who has OKW, SSR, and some AKL contracts where they were buying back their contracts and suggested in those e-mails that the members hadn't use their points in awhile and made it sound like they were doing a favor by helping them offload their contracts back to DVC "at market rates". There was a whole thread about it here on disboards.

No matter how poor the value of their instant sale offer is, the difference between this and what DVCRM is doing is they're up front about everything, including all the costs (closing costs. estoppel, and commission) the seller is responsible for paying. DVCRM isn't cold calling people to get them to get rid of their contract (which is a super sleazy tactic, similar to all the other predatory companies out there trying to get people to offload their timeshares). DVCRM isn't promising them "at market rates". Some of the members that DVC targeted, based on the language of the e-mail, is certainly older members who may not even be aware of the resale market, let alone the value of their contracts.

And as I mentioned before, DVCRM isn't forcing anyone to do the instant sale. They even encourage sellers to list it on the market to get a better price. This instant sale offer is just if you need emergency money now, and rightfully so it should be valued lower than a normal sale.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I'm well aware of the quote and the background of it all. The quote is describing an initiative DVC had back in 2021 where they cold called/e-mailed DVC members who has OKW, SSR, and some AKL contracts where they were buying back their contracts and suggested in those e-mails that the members hadn't use their points in awhile and made it sound like they were doing a favor by helping them offload their contracts back to DVC "at market rates". There was a whole thread about it here on disboards.

No matter how poor the value of their instant sale offer is, the difference between this and what DVCRM is doing is they're up front about everything, including all the costs (closing costs. estoppel, and commission) the seller is responsible for paying. DVCRM isn't cold calling people to get them to get rid of their contract (which is a super sleazy tactic, similar to all the other predatory companies out there trying to get people to offload their timeshares). DVCRM isn't promising them "at market rates". Some of the members that DVC targeted, based on the language of the e-mail, is certainly older members who may not even be aware of the resale market, let alone the value of their contracts.

And as I mentioned before, DVCRM isn't forcing anyone to do the instant sale. They even encourage sellers to list it on the market to get a better price. This instant sale offer is just if you need emergency money now, and rightfully so it should be valued lower than a normal sale.

Though the DVC buyback has always been as laughable as this by the broker this wasn't exactly how I remember so went back to look.

Webmaster Doc posted his original email/letter which was nothing more than see if they wished to sell and advised to call if they wanted more details. Here's the info he posted after calling. Bolding was added by me. Doc also shared they had just sold a small OKW for $109/pt:

"Just off the phone with DVC Quailty Assurance.

After establishing that we are DVC owners it was an interesting conversation.

In spite of my speculation about what the offer might be, it was considerably lower. They are current offering $80 - 88 per point for OKW. They mentioned that we could likely do better using a third party broker and suggested that if we have any interest they will provide a non-binding offer (good for 7 days) to give us an opportunity to "test the market".

I was surprised to learn that they will re-purchase contracts from "most" DVC Resorts except what they are actively selling. The currently will NOT repurchase Aulani or Riviera contracts - and presently have a "hold" on repurchasing Poly, VB, VGF and BCV. There are some Use Years they are not looking for currently (although none at OKW).

He offered no suggestion that they were interested in OKW to minimize the # of 2042 contracts.

Interesting and pleasant conversation. This "active" repurchase program just began yesterday"

The Resale Market people are ex-DVC and it always has shown. If the above was so disapproved of then it must apply to this from the broker as it doesn't seem at all different.

DVC has long had informal buyback programs - sometimes just on certain resorts and sometimes on a bunch of them.

Here's a link to the thread from the DVC offer. https://www.disboards.com/threads/u...your-disney-vacation-club-membership.3850732/
.

 

[pianomanzano]

Though the DVC buyback has always been as laughable as this by the broker this wasn't exactly how I remember so went back to look.

Webmaster Doc posted his original email/letter which was nothing more than see if they wished to sell and advised to call if they wanted more details. Here's the info he posted after calling. Bolding was added by me. Doc also shared they had just sold a small OKW for $109/pt:

"Just off the phone with DVC Quailty Assurance.

After establishing that we are DVC owners it was an interesting conversation.

In spite of my speculation about what the offer might be, it was considerably lower. They are current offering $80 - 88 per point for OKW. They mentioned that we could likely do better using a third party broker and suggested that if we have any interest they will provide a non-binding offer (good for 7 days) to give us an opportunity to "test the market".

I was surprised to learn that they will re-purchase contracts from "most" DVC Resorts except what they are actively selling. The currently will NOT repurchase Aulani or Riviera contracts - and presently have a "hold" on repurchasing Poly, VB, VGF and BCV. There are some Use Years they are not looking for currently (although none at OKW).

He offered no suggestion that they were interested in OKW to minimize the # of 2042 contracts.

Interesting and pleasant conversation. This "active" repurchase program just began yesterday"

The Resale Market people are ex-DVC and it always has shown. If the above was so disapproved of then it must apply to this from the broker as it doesn't seem at all different.

DVC has long had informal buyback programs - sometimes just on certain resorts and sometimes on a bunch of them.

Here's a link to the thread from the DVC offer. https://www.disboards.com/threads/u...your-disney-vacation-club-membership.3850732/
.

Here’s the exact language from the email they sent out:

Additionally, for a limited time, you may be eligible for a 10% increase over the price per point that Disney Vacation Club would currently offer when choosing to exercise its options to reacquire an ownership interest.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Here’s the exact language from the email they sent out:

Additionally, for a limited time, you may be eligible for a 10% increase over the price per point that Disney Vacation Club would currently offer when choosing to exercise its options to reacquire an ownership interest.

Yes, I read the email.

That is not saying they are buying back at "market rates" as you stated. Just some arbitrary ROFR rate - probably the one that if they saw it meant automatic buyback vs getting the darts out. Nobody ever wanted to be so low in pricing that ROFR is automatic. At least nobody who wanted to maximize their sale. There could be the exception of wanting cash fast.

 

[Minniemoo15]

Stuff like this makes me miss Jerry and the days of the old DVC show.

 

[pianomanzano]

Yes, I read the email.

That is not saying they are buying back at "market rates" as you stated. Just some arbitrary ROFR rate - probably the one that if they saw it meant automatic buyback vs getting the darts out. Nobody ever wanted to be so low in pricing that ROFR is automatic. At least nobody who wanted to maximize their sale. There could be the exception of wanting cash fast.

I mean we’re arguing semantics at this point and the actual wording from the email makes it sound more predatory to me. To someone like Doc or anyone else in the boards, they’ll know this isn’t a good deal. But to those they targeted for this email who are likely not to even know a resale market exists think they’re even getting a deal with a 110% ROFR rate. Which gets me back to my original point that it’s not a fair comparison to DVCRM’s instant sale offer.