New credit card guarantees. Restaurant list, policy & common questions in 1st post

[mom2rtk]

I'm also guessing that Disney is going to have to increase capacity. Interesting to note that the fee system of CRT has dramatically decreased demand, while making Le Cellier a double credit has not significantly reduced demand. Disney already knows that a fee will discourage guests from making reservations, but making a single credit into a double credit does not decrease demand. I can't fathom that Disney doesn't know already that he ne fee is going to significantly reduce demand. I'm not talking about reducing no shows - I'm talking about overall demand.

I'm really surprised that the restaurant going into the Fantasyland Expansion is rumored to have only 1 TS meal per day. That's not doing much to increase capacity and I haven't heard any rumors about doing anything else to address capacity concerns.

As for CRT.... I don't think it was the prepay thing that decreased demang, but in fact a HUGE increase in capacity. I know when we went for the first ime in 04 you had to synchronize your clock with the naval observatory and start dialing at just the right time to get in. It was already prepay, but they only did the character meal for breakfast.

The big change came when they added princesses for lunch, and most recently when the (sadly) ditched the Fairy Godmother and mice with dinner to be the same as breakfast and lunch wth princesses.

I think a LOT of the moves we've been hearing about lately have to do with Disney tightening procedures in advance of the HUGE influx of people they HOPE to have come in with the expansion. Whether that is the case or not is another matter, but I think they are trying to prepare for it. Unfortunately they don't seem to be increasing capacity on things, but tightening procedures and such. (no girls over 12 at BBB, CC guarantee on most meals, rumored enforcement of FP return times).

 

[mcd2745]

I'm really surprised that the restaurant going into the Fantasyland Expansion is rumored to have only 1 TS meal per day. That's not doing much to increase capacity and I haven't heard any rumors about doing anything else to address capacity concerns.

As for CRT.... I don't think it was the prepay thing that decreased demang, but in fact a HUGE increase in capacity. I know when we went for the first ime in 04 you had to synchronize your clock with the naval observatory and start dialing at just the right time to get in. It was already prepay, but they only did the character meal for breakfast.

The big change came when they added princesses for lunch, and most recently when the (sadly) ditched the Fairy Godmother and mice with dinner to be the same as breakfast and lunch wth princesses.

I don't think they have a capacity problem WDW-wide. They have capacity/demand issues at the restaurants on the list for this new ploicy. While I firmly believe the policy's main goal is to decrease no-shows, they probably are hopeful it will also increase demand at the restaurants not on the list and better spread the demand out. Now, probably the best way to spread the demand out would be to drastically improve resort-to-resort transportation. However, that is a very expensive option...so we won't hold our breath for that.

I think a LOT of the moves we've been hearing about lately have to do with Disney tightening procedures in advance of the HUGE influx of people they HOPE to have come in with the expansion. Whether that is the case or not is another matter, but I think they are trying to prepare for it. Unfortunately they don't seem to be increasing capacity on things, but tightening procedures and such. (no girls over 12 at BBB, CC guarantee on most meals, rumored enforcement of FP return times).

This could be. It's very feasible. And if it is, good for them for rolling out these changes well in advance and not right around the FE opening which would cause a lot more problems.

 

[SmallWorld71]

I think a LOT of the moves we've been hearing about lately have to do with Disney tightening procedures in advance of the HUGE influx of people they HOPE to have come in with the expansion. Whether that is the case or not is another matter, but I think they are trying to prepare for it. Unfortunately they don't seem to be increasing capacity on things, but tightening procedures and such. (no girls over 12 at BBB, CC guarantee on most meals, rumored enforcement of FP return times).

Interesting idea! I hadn't thought of it from this angle.

 

[mom2rtk]

hopeful it will also increase demand at the restaurants not on the list and better spread the demand out.

So why do I foresee a jump in no-shows at the restaurants not on the list, as people book those for their back-up plans..........

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The only people this would really affect are the ones who make multiple reservations and then don't go to a lot of them. Sure, everyone might miss a reservation at some point due to unforeseen consequences, but most go to their ADRs.

People are not paying any more for their food if they are present. So it really only becomes a viable source of extra revenue if lots of people don't show up. If enough people are no-show that it makes this new fee profitable, then no-shows are probably a problem.

The extra revenue and no-show problem are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they are more linked.

I think they are very much linked. If you staff a restaurant expecting 200 people and only 100 people show up, you still have to pay your staff even though you will only be taking in 1/2 the revenue

I honestly don't have a problem with the concept, but perhaps instead of a full days notice you just have to cancel withing 30 mins of your ADR time or something so that they know they can free up that table for walk-ups

99% of people have cell phones so to call a restaurant to indicate you won't make a meal shouldn't be that big of a deal. But the 24 hour notice seems a bit long - a lot can happen (weather, etc.) that can alter peoples plans

 

[mcd2745]

So why do I foresee a jump in no-shows at the restaurants not on the list, as people book those for their back-up plans..........

Well that will give the initial appearance of an increase in demand, although not real. Then Disney will have to react accordingly and add the rest of the restaurants to this policy. It all comes back to the problem that the demand for ADRs far exceeds the demand for actual meals.

 

[maxiesmom]

I think they are very much linked. If you staff a restaurant expecting 200 people and only 100 people show up, you still have to pay your staff even though you will only be taking in 1/2 the revenue

I honestly don't have a problem with the concept, but perhaps instead of a full days notice you just have to cancel withing 30 mins of your ADR time or something so that they know they can free up that table for walk-ups

99% of people have cell phones so to call a restaurant to indicate you won't make a meal shouldn't be that big of a deal. But the 24 hour notice seems a bit long - a lot can happen (weather, etc.) that can alter peoples plans

I agre with you on all points.

I want to add too that I think this new policy is already scaring people off, even though it isn't yet in effect. I just booked ADRs for a March trip, and was able to get every single thing I wanted, including The Crystal Palace, Garden Grill, and The California Grill. For a family of 6, no less! Yipee!!!

 

[ronnmel]

I think they are very much linked. If you staff a restaurant expecting 200 people and only 100 people show up, you still have to pay your staff even though you will only be taking in 1/2 the revenue

I honestly don't have a problem with the concept, but perhaps instead of a full days notice you just have to cancel withing 30 mins of your ADR time or something so that they know they can free up that table for walk-ups

99% of people have cell phones so to call a restaurant to indicate you won't make a meal shouldn't be that big of a deal. But the 24 hour notice seems a bit long - a lot can happen (weather, etc.) that can alter peoples plans

While I agree that being able to cancel on a shorter notice than 24 hours would really help people because of all the things that can happen last minute (weather, like you said, or sickness, etc.), and would allow them to say yes to walk-ups, it wouldn't help the over-staffing in case not enough walk-ups show up to compensate.

Because this policy is so new, I wouldn't be surprised to see them tweak it later on.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Maybe the no-show rate in January had to do with the unseasonably cold weather and people deciding it wasn't worth the trek out early or late in the day in the bitter cold. And yes last winter had lots of bitter cold. I think this is one of the problems with this policy. It gives the customer no chance to change their minds the day of their ADR. I think a 3 hour window would be far better.

And they need to add free wireless internet in the mods and value resorts so people can cancel online without yet another nickel, dime ten dollar bill flying out the window.

A guest could easily see what the weather will be the next day, by turning on the tv. There's no reason they couldn't predict it will be too cold for their family to make it to their ADR 24 hrs. in advance. I still say the simple solution for those who want the opportunity to change their minds is not to make ADRs.

So why do I foresee a jump in no-shows at the restaurants not on the list, as people book those for their back-up plans..........

Well that will give the initial appearance of an increase in demand, although not real. Then Disney will have to react accordingly and add the rest of the restaurants to this policy. It all comes back to the problem that the demand for ADRs far exceeds the demand for actual meals.

I agree with mcd. If that happens, they'll change the policy to require a CC guarantee for all restaurants. People really should stop shooting themselves in the foot.

I don't know anything about Mobile Magic. I do have a smartphone, but I'm one of those people who got it to make calls. My DH does more with his Iphone, but it's not attached to his hip. Are you suggesting people be able to use that, if they prefer not to make ADRs, or that it should replace this new policy & the ability to book ahead? If it's an additional tool, it sounds like a great idea. If it's either/or, I prefer this policy & the ability to make ADRs in advance. For my DH & I, we don't want to be tied to a phone on vacation. We could, if we had too, but I don't think it should be a requirement. Believe it or not, some American's don't have cell phones. Also, it's not just American's who visit WDW. I definitely wouldn't be happy, if I were from another country, & had to use my phone to fully enjoy my vacation. We don't even turn our phones on, when we leave the country. It's too expensive. All that said, if they implement Mobile Magic as the only way of making advance ADRs, I would work within the system. I certainly wouldn't get all upset about it.

 

[rhino78]

SOME QUESTIONS:

1. I normally make 1 or 2 ADRs. I plan my schedule and keep them. Others book 10 or more ADRs and skip some of them. Assume the guest keeps just over half. Maybe 6. Which guest is more profitable to Disney? The guest who makes 2 ADRs and keeps them or the guest who makes 10 and keeps 6?
2. Suppose there is driving rain. A lot of guests are no-shows. There aren't enough walk ups to fill the openings. Is that the cost of doing business or should a restaurant expect the missing diners to pay?
3. Assume the no-show rate is extremely high. 50% (or more). Does that suggest a lot of rude guests? or Does it suggest the Disney vacation experience doesn't work with firm reservations?
   

I'm not suggesting going back to same day dining reservations in EPCOT. Lines at the phones. I'm suggesting Saving spots for walk ups. Using video boards and text messages to let guests know currently availability is one solution.[/QUOTE]

I'll answer the first question. It seems simple, but it really isn't. While the family with 6 spends more in gross, that number has to be adjusted to account for the money lost for ADRs they skipped. That isn't so cut and dry. Any business functions best when you know to expect. It would not surprise me at all if Disney would rather have customers who keep all their ADRs and make fewer ADRs total. It just makes everything easier.


Just as an aside, I am not saying this isabsolutely not just to get more money. It may well be. I have to see how this isimplemented before I can really make a solid judgement. Obviously, if Disney just charges everyone regardless of their circumstances, I would agree that this is just greedy. I just really wonder if this is more of a scare tactic. A way to get people to take the ADRs more seriously.

 

[DisneyFamily123]

Maybe the no-show rate in January had to do with the unseasonably cold weather and people deciding it wasn't worth the trek out early or late in the day in the bitter cold...............

Do people actually stay in their room because it's cold? It's always warmer in Orlando than home. Pouring down rain or snow would not stop me and DS from heading to the parks.

It was kind of funny in December 2010 when it was unusually cold the 1st week. In the morning at the resort, I saw people coming outside in winter hats, sweaters, and heavy coats. Where do these people live at home? The Caribbean or something? I was still walking around in shorts, t-shirt, and flip flops.

 

[mom2rtk]

Do people actually stay in their room because it's cold? It's always warmer in Orlando than home. Pouring down rain or snow would not stop me and DS from heading to the parks.

It was kind of funny in December 2010 when it was unusually cold the 1st week. In the morning at the resort, I saw people coming outside in winter hats, sweaters, and heavy coats. Where do these people live at home? The Caribbean or something? I was still walking around in shorts, t-shirt, and flip flops.

I'm from the midwest and it gets VERY cold here in the winter. But I don't pack up my things and go spend 12 hours out in it all day.

We were there last December and it dipped into the 20's a couple nights. I was VERY glad to have hats, gloves, long johns and chemical handwarmers along.

When I'm at Disney, I go regardless of weather. We wouldn't let a little cold weather keep us from what we've been dreaming of all year. But I could see people wtih smaller kids hesitating about it. And honestly, some just aren't as crazy as I am!

 

[Lewisc]

I have no idea if the 33% figure quoted from Touring Plans is accurate. I have no idea what the day to day variance. We haven't the slightest idea what the variance is from day to day. To say it's safe to assume has absolutely no basis in fact.

How many people make an ADR for their arrival day? How many people find their arrival delayed? Flights delayed in the winter. Driving slower?

I wonder how many people wind up canceling their trip. or chopping a day or two of their trip, and forget to cancel ADRs. Certainly more likely to happen during the winter.

edited to add--Does anyone think the seasonal dining "surcharges" was anything other then a way to increase revenue? No-shows can be handled by overbooking, shortening the reservation window, release ADRs after 15 minutes, promote availability to walkups etc. Disney may have reasons, other then revenue, but there is absolutely no intelligent way to disagree with posters who believe the motivation is revenue.

If 33% is the average for the month of January, it is safe to assume that there is a wide variance from day to day. That is incredibly difficuly for Disney to manage. Let's use the excuse of the moment - weather. January can be very tricky
That it is 3x higher in January over July is not a total surprise. But we're not talking 2% and 6%. Those seem like reasonable numbers to me. 10% - 33% is a ridiculous amount of no-shows and illustrates the attitude that many people have had toward their ADRs- that they feel little or no committment to them. Those numbers IMO clearly justify Disney's actions with this policy. {Edited to Add:} Now, that's not to say they could have attempted other measures, as there are always alternatives. I've always said if they drastically reduce the ADR window to 45 days or less, it would drastically cut down on the hoarding and no-shows. But they chose this particular course of action, as was their perrogative.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Do people actually stay in their room because it's cold? It's always warmer in Orlando than home. Pouring down rain or snow would not stop me and DS from heading to the parks.

It was kind of funny in December 2010 when it was unusually cold the 1st week. In the morning at the resort, I saw people coming outside in winter hats, sweaters, and heavy coats. Where do these people live at home? The Caribbean or something? I was still walking around in shorts, t-shirt, and flip flops.

They could be from FL. If I had been there at the same time you were, that could have been me.

I'm from the midwest and it gets VERY cold here in the winter. But I don't pack up my things and go spend 12 hours out in it all day.

We were there last December and it dipped into the 20's a couple nights. I was VERY glad to have hats, gloves, long johns and chemical handwarmers along.

When I'm at Disney, I go regardless of weather. We wouldn't let a little cold weather keep us from what we've been dreaming of all year. But I could see people wtih smaller kids hesitating about it. And honestly, some just aren't as crazy as I am!

I doubt too many people spend the money to go to WDW & stay in their room all day. (I'm sure a very few have.) Those who skip out on the parks would possibly be justified in missing the ADR. IMO, if they can go to the parks, DTD, etc., they could make their ADR. By reading this thread, it seems ADRs are the one thing people were willing to miss out on. Many don't appear to see them as a commitment. That's probably the reason for this policy.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I have no idea if the 33% figure quoted from Touring Plans is accurate. I have no idea what the day to day variance. We haven't the slightest idea what the variance is from day to day. To say it's safe to assume has absolutely no basis in fact.

How many people make an ADR for their arrival day? How many people find their arrival delayed? Flights delayed in the winter. Driving slower?

I wonder how many people wind up canceling their trip. or chopping a day or two of their trip, and forget to cancel ADRs. Certainly more likely to happen during the winter.

edited to add--Does anyone think the seasonal dining "surcharges" was anything other then a way to increase revenue? No-shows can be handled by overbooking, shortening the reservation window, release ADRs after 15 minutes, promote availability to walkups etc. Disney may have reasons, other then revenue, but there is absolutely no intelligent way to disagree with posters who believe the motivation is revenue.

I agree the seasonal surcharges were nothing but a money grab. Whether or not this policy is, I still think it's a good thing. If there's a CC attached, fewer people will be forgetting to cancel. Arrival day is difficult to predict. The simple solution is to not make an ADR that day.

 

[Mkrop]

A guest could easily see what the weather will be the next day, by turning on the tv. There's no reason they couldn't predict it will be too cold for their family to make it to their ADR 24 hrs. in advance. I still say the simple solution for those who want the opportunity to change their minds is not to make ADRs.





.

And weather reports are never wrong

When went last year literally every weather site had warm temps for our week, at 4pm the day before we ledt it changed, I had everything laid out ready to go in the suitcase and I had to repack for colder weather.

We did not stay in the room but we did realize that it was too cold for us to do one park over another after being out in it all day. We cancelled as soon as we realized AK would not be fun to tour in the cold. The CM in the CR told us that all the cold weather clothes were flying off the shevles. Luckily I had packed ours.

Do people actually stay in their room because it's cold? It's always warmer in Orlando than home. Pouring down rain or snow would not stop me and DS from heading to the parks.

It was kind of funny in December 2010 when it was unusually cold the 1st week. In the morning at the resort, I saw people coming outside in winter hats, sweaters, and heavy coats. Where do these people live at home? The Caribbean or something? I was still walking around in shorts, t-shirt, and flip flops.

That would have been me, all bundled up. I am not a cold weather person. DH started in shorts and he even suggested going back to the room for warmer clothes, that was a shocker. And when we were there, it was in the upper 40s at night, 50s during the day in Philly and in the 30s in Orlando at night. It was similar in our Jan trip.

They could be from FL. If I had been there at the same time you were, that could have been me.



I doubt too many people spend the money to go to WDW & stay in their room all day. (I'm sure a very few have.) Those who skip out on the parks would possibly be justified in missing the ADR. IMO, if they can go to the parks, DTD, etc., they could make their ADR. By reading this thread, it seems ADRs are the one thing people were willing to miss out on. Many don't appear to see them as a commitment. That's probably the reason for this policy.

I think people underestimate how cold the evenings can be during those months, so maybe they are ill prepared, so they can tour during the day but when the sun goes down it is quite chilly.


This summer we went to San Fran, I looked at the weather sites and saw 60s, I thought no big deal. Well San Fran was one of the coldest places I have ever been, and this was August. It was that bay air that just kept that moisture in and made us that much colder. The tour guides were laughing bc people always misjudge their weather and you see the tourists wearing their I LOVE SAN FRAN fleeces all over town. So I think it is quite easy to misjudge weather reports from somewhere you have never been before.

 

[maxiesmom]

Do people actually stay in their room because it's cold? It's always warmer in Orlando than home. Pouring down rain or snow would not stop me and DS from heading to the parks.

It was kind of funny in December 2010 when it was unusually cold the 1st week. In the morning at the resort, I saw people coming outside in winter hats, sweaters, and heavy coats. Where do these people live at home? The Caribbean or something? I was still walking around in shorts, t-shirt, and flip flops.

I was there, probably thinking you were one of the crazy ones! I'm from Michigan, and I still wore my winter hat, and had gloves on! It was too darned cold to do without a coat. I think I took it off maybe between 1 and 2pm, and that was it!

I agree with the poster who pointed out that while I get around just fine at home without being packed into my winter gear all of the time, I don't usually go outside for the whole day. I've been at WDW when it is swealtering hot, and freezing cold, and I'll take the heat any time!

 

[Snurk71]

A guest could easily see what the weather will be the next day, by turning on the tv. There's no reason they couldn't predict it will be too cold for their family to make it to their ADR 24 hrs. in advance. I still say the simple solution for those who want the opportunity to change their minds is not to make ADRs.

Seconding another poster that the weather reports are never wrong. Not to mention that they're also incredibly accurate in telling when those heavy rains come inland (sarcasm for those that can't read into it).

I'm sorry, but you seem pretty unsympathetic to how real life works for real families on vacation. You're out in the park all day (maybe in the cold, maybe in the rain), you go back to your room for a rest in the afternoon and quite frankly just don't want to go back out in the mess after you've warmed up/dried out. I would bet there's plenty of people like that. I'm one of those people - and have been more than once. When I have been I either A) try to get into a TS restaurant at our resort, B) order room service, or C) eat at the restaurant CS. I still had to eat, Disney just fed me at another location.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

And weather reports are never wrong

When went last year literally every weather site had warm temps for our week, at 4pm the day before we ledt it changed, I had everything laid out ready to go in the suitcase and I had to repack for colder weather.

We did not stay in the room but we did realize that it was too cold for us to do one park over another after being out in it all day. We cancelled as soon as we realized AK would not be fun to tour in the cold. The CM in the CR told us that all the cold weather clothes were flying off the shevles. Luckily I had packed ours.



That would have been me, all bundled up. I am not a cold weather person. DH started in shorts and he even suggested going back to the room for warmer clothes, that was a shocker. And when we were there, it was in the upper 40s at night, 50s during the day in Philly and in the 30s in Orlando at night. It was similar in our Jan trip.



I think people underestimate how cold the evenings can be during those months, so maybe they are ill prepared, so they can tour during the day but when the sun goes down it is quite chilly.


This summer we went to San Fran, I looked at the weather sites and saw 60s, I thought no big deal. Well San Fran was one of the coldest places I have ever been, and this was August. It was that bay air that just kept that moisture in and made us that much colder. The tour guides were laughing bc people always misjudge their weather and you see the tourists wearing their I LOVE SAN FRAN fleeces all over town. So I think it is quite easy to misjudge weather reports from somewhere you have never been before.

Weather reports are notoriously wrong. Sometimes, I think any of us could do that job. It seems to be a guessing game. They're not usually that far off 24 hours in advance though.

I know what you mean about SF. We were there in June, before a cruise to Alaska. SF was colder than Alaska (no kidding). Believe me, if we didn't have a dining reservation, we wouldn't have been out in the cold rain. Since we did, we bundled up, took an umbrella, & had a great meal. In the end, we were glad we went. This seems to be where the the 2 sides of this argument disagree most. Some of us think, if you make an ADR go, regardless of the situation. If you don't want to do that, don't make ADRs. Others think there's many valid reasons why one may not make it to their ADR. For this argument, it all comes down to what WDW thinks.

 

[Lewisc]

I agree the seasonal surcharges were nothing but a money grab. Whether or not this policy is, I still think it's a good thing. If there's a CC attached, fewer people will be forgetting to cancel. Arrival day is difficult to predict. The simple solution is to not make an ADR that day.

A poster suggested no shows were dramatically higher in Jan. People were trying to come up with reasons. I speculated winter related delays in arriving at WDW is one possibility. I'm not suggesting if that's good (or bad).

Not planning a TS meal your first night is one solution. Disney has to decide if it's better to have fewer guests making advance plans their first night or having higher "no shows". A person with an ADR might try to keep it, even if they're tired from traveling. That same person, without an ADR, might not bother checking for availability.